Shoeing

Amy567

Amy567

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I'm on my phone so apologise in advance for spelling mistakes and odd looking words.

I have a new horse arriving tomorrow (beyond excited!) he has typical TB feet and is very flat footed, he also has sensitive imblanced heels, mainly left fore (I know, sounds like a lameness waiting to happen etc) but the imbalance should improve with correct shoeing, my farrier is.brilliant and is highly recommended by the vets etc, so that's not a problem. This horse also has sensitive legs, shown by a couple splints, one of which is still a little puffy (got a 6 month garuntee on it) so thinking wrap up in votton wool type horse!

My main reason for starting this post os different types of shoeing, my current mare (who is also tb with flat feet and had lameness issues) currently has conventional shoes and concussion pads, which my vet doesnt think.much of, but it's so she can work on hard ground without going lame instantly, and they wotk for her.

There's also less conventional shoes, sych as Cytek (sp?) shoes, which I've heard really mixed reviews from and a farrier claims they reduce concussion because the horse lands square on the hoof, not heel first (not sire how this works) and there's other plastic shoes to reduce concussion, but move a lot and make nails loose etc.


So, HHO, I'm putting it out there for a discussion on shoeing, types of shoe you use, what helps your horse, what doesn't etc. Any farriers advice would also be brilliant :)

thanks in advance, cookies for all that answer :D
 
This is where as a farrier I have a problem.
You say you have a good farrier who is recommended by vets.
You then say your vet does not think much of the pads etc that your farrier is using ( With the vet on that one!)
You then say your current horse has “TB flat feet; there are so many anomalies I don’t know where to finish!
Fact: ALL FLAT THIN- SOLED FEET ARE MAN MADE, no horse is born with them TB or no TB
I would never want to comment on a type of shoe that is suited for a horse, suffice to say that it worries me when an owner is the one who might be making the decision.
Get your team to discuss all the possibilities including having the shoes taken off those obviously painful feet.
 
I'm glad that a farrier started this and not me :), but Amy if you want to know how to start getting your horse's feet less flat and better quality, even if you shoe, then read the barefoot posts about diet. Every TB flat-foot owner who takes the horse barefoot on a really optimum diet reports the same thing - strengthening and concavity (unless the horse has a metabolic disease but that's another issue altogether).
 
I have never met a TB with bad feet, our tb has fab feet.

Sort diet out, and I would take shoes off and boot and pad up, after reading so much about diet and feet on here and taking shoes off the lami and booting up instead as he kept a ceasing through the nail holes he is doing fab.

Even if you go back to shoes it seems to me that you new horse needs time off them to grow a stronger hoof.
 
I like researching things and suggesting other alternatives to my.farrier, but not making stupid suggestions, so I am talking to my team as such, just taking new suggestions to.them as I like to help.out in the thought process :) I think it's important for the owner to do research other wise they could be selling you something completely pants.

The issue with my TB mare is she ties up, so diet has to be carefully looked at, she was on happy hooves by dengie for a bit, which improved her hooves no end, but too.much starch and sugar really isn't good for her, so diet can be an issue, we do as much as we can for her with the diet she can have. As for my new one, TB gelding, he has worse feet than the mare, I always enjoy listening to the profeasionals about new things that can help, but if they're narrow minded or thrive on tradition, I like to bring something new to.the table.

May I ask why you don't think concussion pads work? They have with my mare, as I say, her hoof quality has really improved with everything we've done.

Being an ex racer, the gelding hasn't had the balanced diet for hoof care that most other horses get, so we'll introduce new feeds etc and help with his hoof quality too. My issue with taking his shoes off completely is that his hooves are slightly cracked at the moment and feel that, because they're weak also, bare foot on hard, dry ground, could cause the cracks to get worse. Though nails might not help either
 
Pads, fillers, and plastic nail/glue on shoes are not a cure they are a form of not very successful treatments, pads will only be trying to be what the horse can already produce, good strong thick sole.
Fillers apart from the aesthetics’ have no purpose and just cover an area which will be full of anaerobic bacteria that will thrive very well under them.
And what ever benefit there is in having a shoe either nailed or glued on to a problem foot is soon outweighed by the same bacteria trapped under it but also the leverage that is placed upon already damaged tissue.
I am always pleased when a client is interested in what is best for their horse, but any discussion that results in a treatment (by law) must be with the blessing of your vet if it is going to be performed by your farrier.
A farrier may NOT diagnose, give a prognosis or treat without a vet either in attendance or having given permission.
 
Is that to say that the only way to help a 'flat footed' horse is to go barefoot? Or am I being a numpty?
 
That's why you boot and with pads in.....my lami can't go 100% barefoot, he has his boots with pads on for riding and turnout and off when in stable. he has a metabolic issue and a bad rotation.

I'm pretty sure you could do the same till he grows a good hoof.

I think from researching that the only way to help a horse with foot issues (unless its a broken pedal bone etc) is to let the hoof grow how it needs to and help provide comfort with boots and pads until the horse has a strong enough hoof to either go completely bare or to take having shoes back on.
That is my opinion and experience with mine. Last time my farrier was out he told me that looking at how good lami's feet are now he would never want to nail a shoe to his hooves again.
 
Amy567 said:
Is that to say that the only way to help a 'flat footed' horse is to go barefoot? Or am I being a numpty?
Click to expand...

From what I understand (and my own observations) there are two ways to improve a flat foot.

The first is to make sure the hoof is loading correctly and getting as much stimulation as is possible while the horse remains comfortable (so both correct trim and plenty of exercise). Exercise with shoes on doesn't tend to provide the whole hoof with the stimulation it needs to grow, since e.g. frog and digital cushion aren't getting ground contact, so working comfortably barefoot is more likely to help the hoof improve than the same work with shoes on.

The second is way is through diet. If the diet isn't right for the horse, the rate and quality of growth in the hoof will be compromised, so the beneficial effects of exercise are lost.

Same in humans, really - you can improve the performance (and the resilience) of muscles, tendons and ligaments with exercise, but you can only go so far without also making sure diet contains everything needed and nothing not needed :)

ETA - because I AM a numpty I've found improvement goes in a zig zag fashion - better trim and more exercise got some improvement that plateaued out until I changed diet, then a small improvement until trim improved again, then a small improvement until I realised I still hadn't got diet quite right - then things suddenly changed massively for the better. It may be there's a critical point of recovery after which point the horse is much better able to do the job themselves.
 
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No you are not being a numpty,
For 35 odd years I believed that shoeing was the cure for all ills in the equine foot.
I now know that it is possible to reproduce all of the good effects that I was getting with shoes, only barefoot.
So for instance, If I fitted a short tongued hart bar with supporting
(or primary/secondary) pressure ending at the centre of alignment of the DF tendon, with the shoe taking secondary weight up to the inner wall attachment I would have great results in getting the heel structure supportive again along with a sole tissue improvement, leading eventually to the horse having what I would call good feet.
Now all I have to do is read what the foot is trying to tell me it wants to do, and then support it, so that the self healing process and subsequent new growth will give me the same (but usually better ) result.
Boots I find to be a great ½ way house, plus they have the great advantage of being able to come off in order to keep the feet barefoot when not being used.
Shoeing and barefoot are 2 different sciences http://www.rockfoot.com/footfall.html when both are done well it is much easier to make the decision as to which to use as you are not choosing a form of treatment, when something goes wrong if we don’t listen to the horse, then we better know what we are doing.
 
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