Shoes are going back on Torres :(

Michen

Michen

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Shoes of sorts anyway, and I feel very glum about it.

If you saw those photos of the update of him, combined with my thread in here not long ago then you would have seen the obviously incredible improvements. He's a world away from the horse that couldn't stand on a shavings bed barefoot without his legs shaking. His new angle is coming in, the heels are not flat on the floor, his soles are definitely better though still flexing to thumb pressure. You might also remember his bizarre skin infections that erupt from nothing? Well he had a boot twist a week ago and the strap cut into his pastern. Despite full on constant care its now a nasty oozy mess which will likely need antibiotics to clear up.

I know all of you said to let him get on with it in the field and I totally agreed and he's been "ok" the last few days though not great yesterday. Today was a whole different story. I found him in the field head low, shifting his front feet (no pulses though and not standing like a laminitic or anything!), miserable and sore and walking so, so gingerly across the field. The ground is well and truly hard again and it's just buggered him. Why oh why didn't I take the shoes off in January... he probably would have enough sole depth to cope with this by now if I'd done it a couple of months earlier. He didn't even want to walk to the water trough because its a bit stoney and his legs nearly buckled when he trod on one. AND he's on danilon. I know he's a pansy but this is pretty horrendous.

I was all for letting him get on with it if he was just pottery but this is a whole new level of misery for him and I can only assume his feet are bruised from the ground.

So in the short term I can strap pads on and poultice. Medium term I can use boots when the skin clears up. But in all honesty I'm not liking the idea of him being in boots 24/7 for basically the whole summer (if we get another one like last year). I don't see how sweaty feet and the buggered breakover can do him much good in the long term. I wish I could send him to Rockley but I just don't have the money, and to be honest- I don't wish to invest much more in him.

After a long chat with a very pro barefoot farrier, whereby 90% of his clients are sans shoes, I decided to try this.

https://www.easycareinc.com/our_shoes/Easyshoe_performance/easyshoe_performance.aspx

It was originally suggested to me by an EP as a good in between for prepping a horse for barefoot whilst giving him time on a decent diet etc. The lovely pro barefoot farrier has spoken with my farrier and given him advice on how to fit them etc and I think I'm going to give them a bash for a cycle and see how he goes. If we are in for a wet summer then happy days (sorry!) but perhaps I was foolish to not have forseen this. I will be taking photos with them off after 5 weeks or so to see whether those new growth angles have remained the same and the heels are continueing to improve. If not I'll have to re consider permanent boots for the summer.

I'm pretty gutted.. I know I did the right thing taking his shoes off and glueing these onto him is not being done lightly. My hope is that his soles will continue to strengthen with the right diet (though I appreciate we will be missing out on ground stimulation) and that after one or two cycles I can look at trying again. At the very least I know I can get him out of them by autumn and have him totally barefoot then.

Urgh.. feeling blue...again. If anyone does have any suggestions though please send them my way! He's on red rufus weisencobs, forage plus and yea sacc. Forage not tested though. Or... thoughts on boots permanently over summer? Aside from the obvious rubbing problems- is this not as bigger issue as I think re breakover and sweaty feet not getting any air? Maybe I'm panicking and acting rashly but he looked like a welfare case today :(
 
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Faracat said:
I think that you are doing the right thing. Don't forget that the glue-ons can always come off again when he's ready.
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Thanks Faracat. It's so hard when I can SEE the improvements and the changes all heading in the right direction. But at the cost of a miserable, truly in pain horse that's probably going to end up in a viscous bruising cycle I just don't think it's feasible. I hope he will continue to improve, albiet at a slower rate, in these shoes and be in a better position come Autumn or hopefully sooner.
 
The improvement would slow anyway if he can't walk comfortably and he does sound very uncomfortable. The shoes you linked to are an interesting concept. They look much better than metal shoes in many ways. I hope to read a positive update soon and that he keeps moving in the right direction with his recovery. :)
 
Just wanted to drop in and say what a wonderful job you are doing! It must be agonizingly slow progress, but he is getting there. The easyshoe is excellent, a friend of mine used them on her crippled TB. Don't quite know specifics, but he had terrible things going on with ligaments in the foot, and arthritic changes etc. He wasn't sound in boots, but easyshoes made him very comfortable. They are a great compromise!
 
Please don't take this the wrong way but, Your horse is trying to tell you something "his feet hurt" why not shoe him or at least give him some bute.
 
Michen said:
Shoes of sorts anyway, and I feel very glum about it.

If you saw those photos of the update of him, combined with my thread in here not long ago then you would have seen the obviously incredible improvements. He's a world away from the horse that couldn't stand on a shavings bed barefoot without his legs shaking. His new angle is coming in, the heels are not flat on the floor, his soles are definitely better though still flexing to thumb pressure. You might also remember his bizarre skin infections that erupt from nothing? Well he had a boot twist a week ago and the strap cut into his pastern. Despite full on constant care its now a nasty oozy mess which will likely need antibiotics to clear up.

I know all of you said to let him get on with it in the field and I totally agreed and he's been "ok" the last few days though not great yesterday. Today was a whole different story. I found him in the field head low, shifting his front feet (no pulses though and not standing like a laminitic or anything!), miserable and sore and walking so, so gingerly across the field. The ground is well and truly hard again and it's just buggered him. Why oh why didn't I take the shoes off in January... he probably would have enough sole depth to cope with this by now if I'd done it a couple of months earlier. He didn't even want to walk to the water trough because its a bit stoney and his legs nearly buckled when he trod on one. AND he's on danilon. I know he's a pansy but this is pretty horrendous.

I was all for letting him get on with it if he was just pottery but this is a whole new level of misery for him and I can only assume his feet are bruised from the ground.

So in the short term I can strap pads on and poultice. Medium term I can use boots when the skin clears up. But in all honesty I'm not liking the idea of him being in boots 24/7 for basically the whole summer (if we get another one like last year). I don't see how sweaty feet and the buggered breakover can do him much good in the long term. I wish I could send him to Rockley but I just don't have the money, and to be honest- I don't wish to invest much more in him.

After a long chat with a very pro barefoot farrier, whereby 90% of his clients are sans shoes, I decided to try this.

https://www.easycareinc.com/our_shoes/Easyshoe_performance/easyshoe_performance.aspx

It was originally suggested to me by an EP as a good in between for prepping a horse for barefoot whilst giving him time on a decent diet etc. The lovely pro barefoot farrier has spoken with my farrier and given him advice on how to fit them etc and I think I'm going to give them a bash for a cycle and see how he goes. If we are in for a wet summer then happy days (sorry!) but perhaps I was foolish to not have forseen this. I will be taking photos with them off after 5 weeks or so to see whether those new growth angles have remained the same and the heels are continueing to improve. If not I'll have to re consider permanent boots for the summer.

I'm pretty gutted.. I know I did the right thing taking his shoes off and glueing these onto him is not being done lightly. My hope is that his soles will continue to strengthen with the right diet (though I appreciate we will be missing out on ground stimulation) and that after one or two cycles I can look at trying again. At the very least I know I can get him out of them by autumn and have him totally barefoot then.

Urgh.. feeling blue...again. If anyone does have any suggestions though please send them my way! He's on red rufus weisencobs, forage plus and yea sacc. Forage not tested though. Or... thoughts on boots permanently over summer? Aside from the obvious rubbing problems- is this not as bigger issue as I think re breakover and sweaty feet not getting any air? Maybe I'm panicking and acting rashly but he looked like a welfare case today :(
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The shoes look great they promise to give all the things that will promote good healthy feet, I think putting them on to give him comfort whilst allowing time/nature to give something he can walk on with out shoes is a fantastic idea. My mare has never worn shoes and has good healthy feet but if needed I would give something like this a go.
 
I think you should test him for cushings. The thinness of his soles and the level of his discomfort after the amount of time he has been without shoes is extreme, even for a tb recently out of racing. The only one I've had like that was a fat horse with ems, easily resolved with weight reduction. Since Torres is not fat, that can't be the answer, and I would be looking for another metabolic issue. You might also try an epsm high oil high vitamin e diet and look at the epsm genetic test available for fifty pounds, done on hair roots.
 
Welly said:
Please don't take this the wrong way but, Your horse is trying to tell you something "his feet hurt" why not shoe him or at least give him some bute.
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Uh, the horse IS going to be shod, just not with a conventional steel shoe. The easyshoes are fabulous, they provide heel support whilst allowing the hoof to function properly, expands as the hoof flexes/grows, and stimulates the frog/digital cushion. Seems a much better alternative for a horse with poor hoof pathology than a lump o' steel. These shoes will allow Torres to correct his feet and keep him comfortable, to allow him to eventually walk with out shoes. Michen has detailed his story on here, and she's always shown tremendous care for his well being.
 
ycbm said:
I think you should test him for cushings. The thinness of his soles and the level of his discomfort after the amount of time he has been without shoes is extreme, even for a tb recently out of racing. The only one I've had like that was a fat horse with ems, easily resolved with weight reduction. Since Torres is not fat, that can't be the answer, and I would be looking for another metabolic issue. You might also try an epsm high oil high vitamin e diet and look at the epsm genetic test available for fifty pounds, done on hair roots.
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He was tested in February- negative. Had it done as I was suspicious. To be fair, his soles were so, so thin that perhaps I was expecting too much for them to have really thickened in 8 weeks? I don't know....
 
Lyle said:
Uh, the horse IS going to be shod, just not with a conventional steel shoe. The easyshoes are fabulous, they provide heel support whilst allowing the hoof to function properly, expands as the hoof flexes/grows, and stimulates the frog/digital cushion. Seems a much better alternative for a horse with poor hoof pathology than a lump o' steel. These shoes will allow Torres to correct his feet and keep him comfortable, to allow him to eventually walk with out shoes. Michen has detailed his story on here, and she's always shown tremendous care for his well being.
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Thank you :) SO good to hear your friend had success with them- they seem practically unused over in the UK!!!
 
Welly said:
Please don't take this the wrong way but, Your horse is trying to tell you something "his feet hurt" why not shoe him or at least give him some bute.
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No worries, you probably haven't seen our back story. He has navicular bruising and incredible collapsed heels, thin soles from racing that worsened in remedial shoes. He's on danilon, not bute, as the theory is that it's kinder on the gut and he previously had ulcers.
 
That sounds like a good plan to me - it may even only be for 4/6 weeks to get him comfortable again.

Re the rubbing from boots - sometimes thick walking socks can help much like it would us. :)
 
Ooh, interesting! Where do you buy those shoes from? Can any farrier fit them? I like the idea of them more than steel shoes (which I'm planning to put back on in front on friday due to mine just not coping with the level/type of work I'm doing and wanting to compete) and they might offer an alternative. I can imagine they would pull off in winter mud though!
 
Michen said:
No worries, you probably haven't seen our back story. He has navicular bruising and incredible collapsed heels, thin soles from racing that worsened in remedial shoes. He's on danilon, not bute, as the theory is that it's kinder on the gut and he previously had ulcers.
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Speak to your vet about Previcox or Equicox (Previcox is the dog version) - it is supposed to be much kinder than bute, Danilon or Metacam and much more effective as a pain killer/ NSAID. Have used it myself, I am rubbish at following threads so feel free to PM if you'd like a bit more info.
 
It will be interesting to know how he gets on with them as they are pretty new. I have seen people slating easycare for encouraging the use boots and that developing these shoes is a step backwards, whereas I feel they have a definite place and need as booting 24/7 isn't ideal.
 
Sounds like you are taking a wise step in the right direction. Don't beat yourself up about it, it sounds like you are being very sensible and the shoes you have opted for look like a fantastic compromise. Can't wait to hear how he gets on with them.
 
I used a very similar type of shoe on R (he had a long history of foot problems) after remedial shoeing stopped helping. He had them on for about six months in total I think, and then was unshod. He had very thin, soft soles (NAF Rock Hard painted onto his soles helped in the short term), cracks, poor growth - you name it (old fashioned cornucrescine rubbed into his coronet band was helpful). Once he had his plastic shoes off, he saw the farrier every two weeks just because he couldn't cope with a normal trim, and three years on, he has fairly normal looking feet. He will never like stones, but hard ground is fine (if he has a niggling stone in his foot he calls up to the house and stands with the offending foot lifted - I keep a hoof pick in the porch, nip outside and sort it for him!!!) and is unshod, sees the farrier every 5-6 weeks and is otherwise normally found bucking and chasing the pigeons! It does take time, but I can honestly say its worth the effort x
 
I would always favour barefoot but if a horse needs the help of a shoe then it needs it. Better the hrse is more comfy and able to move about (supposing everything is as it should be inside the hoof) than stood crippled and unhappy.
 
These look like a great product. In the circumstances they look ideal - don't feel guilty at all.

I'd be interested to know how much they cost to ship and fit if possible. I'm on a last ditch attempt to save my old cushings TB - currently his feet are really problematic and he is in hoof boots, but they are rubbing.
 
ihatework said:
These look like a great product. In the circumstances they look ideal - don't feel guilty at all.

I'd be interested to know how much they cost to ship and fit if possible. I'm on a last ditch attempt to save my old cushings TB - currently his feet are really problematic and he is in hoof boots, but they are rubbing.
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They are about £50 quid to buy (you can get them in the UK). To have them glued you are talking about £120 for fronts for the glue and standard farrier time. You can nail them though which would definitely be cheaper!
 
Thank you everyone! I bloody love this forum.... what an awesome network of helpful people and support. Amazing that throughout all of this barely anyone has been judgey (is that a word?) despite probably not always agreeing with my choices for Torres.

I feel better about the shoes now, I think I'm doing the right thing but we shall see when they go on. Bless my farrier, he's never used them before and has gone out of his way to speak to others who have and learn as much as he possibly can.
 
stencilface said:
Ooh, interesting! Where do you buy those shoes from? Can any farrier fit them? I like the idea of them more than steel shoes (which I'm planning to put back on in front on friday due to mine just not coping with the level/type of work I'm doing and wanting to compete) and they might offer an alternative. I can imagine they would pull off in winter mud though!
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Any farrier can if they are open to learning about them and how to fit them! Farrier supply shops have them- Stromwells do. You can nail them on which I imagine would be better for mud. I'm having them glued at a much larger expense as his hoof wall is very weak.
 
abercrombie&titch said:
I used a very similar type of shoe on R (he had a long history of foot problems) after remedial shoeing stopped helping. He had them on for about six months in total I think, and then was unshod. He had very thin, soft soles (NAF Rock Hard painted onto his soles helped in the short term), cracks, poor growth - you name it (old fashioned cornucrescine rubbed into his coronet band was helpful). Once he had his plastic shoes off, he saw the farrier every two weeks just because he couldn't cope with a normal trim, and three years on, he has fairly normal looking feet. He will never like stones, but hard ground is fine (if he has a niggling stone in his foot he calls up to the house and stands with the offending foot lifted - I keep a hoof pick in the porch, nip outside and sort it for him!!!) and is unshod, sees the farrier every 5-6 weeks and is otherwise normally found bucking and chasing the pigeons! It does take time, but I can honestly say its worth the effort x
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That is hilarious lol! When I came down and found T with the twisted hoof boot that was dug into his pastern he was grazing happily weight bearing on it moving around fine. He then saw me, hobbled up and held his foot in the air it was so funny.. he's such a monkey. He's the sort that won't notice he has a graze until you put some cream on it and then all of a sudden it's there and he's going to die from it. Dramatic little thing!
 
stencilface said:
Ooh, interesting! Where do you buy those shoes from? Can any farrier fit them? I like the idea of them more than steel shoes (which I'm planning to put back on in front on friday due to mine just not coping with the level/type of work I'm doing and wanting to compete) and they might offer an alternative. I can imagine they would pull off in winter mud though!
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I love that your lad has got to the place of doing competing though :D.

ETA these are the nailable version, they have a metal strip inside and a variety of clip options.

https://www.easycareinc.com/our_shoes/Easyshoe_performance_ng/easyshoe_performance_ng.aspx

My main thought with them would be keeping the frog healthy under the covered area :).
 
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If ever i get unwell and need looking after, bagsy Michen be my nurse! Your level of care, consideration and overall desire to fix this horse is second to none!
 
Michen said:
He was tested in February- negative. Had it done as I was suspicious. To be fair, his soles were so, so thin that perhaps I was expecting too much for them to have really thickened in 8 weeks? I don't know....
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Good news about that. I would now put him on an epsm diet and see what happens. If you can't feed him oil, you can give him alpha l-carnetine instead (just costs more!) and at least 12000iu of vitamin e daily, as well as the forage plus. Check selenium levels on forage plus too, he must have a full rda if he is epsm.
 
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