Shoes on hind feet for hock arthiritis- lateral extensions

[Michen]

My horse is unshod (has been since a ligament diagnosis and rehab 7 months ago). Good feet, barely need any trimming even though he is booted in front and behind for most roadwork.

He has now come fully sound post tildren and steroid jabs for some mild hock arthiritis. My vet (who is very pro barefoot in pretty much all circumstances) has suggested he may need to be shod. He described him as his feet being "tight" behind, whereas ideally he'd create himself or have a bit of lateral support. His concern is the outside walls may end up crushing. Probably worth mentioning this hock spavin his only apparent since he's been out of full work, and he's never worn his hind shoes in any way to suggest there was a hock issue.

The horse is only in very light hacking work, walking and some trot so I loathe to shoe unnecessarily but it's imperative he's comfortable. I'm booting for longer periods of roadwork probably unnecessarily but just because I don't want to take the chance of him getting footsore.

Has anyone shod a previously unshod horse to benefit hock arthiritis? Of course there is the added concussion to consider. My vet was 50/50 on how to proceed with this, his usually reccomendation would be to leave unshod but the horse isn't quite growing the hoof (we think) he needs. Of course maybe the horse knows better!

 

[Goldenstar]

Sadly hock arthritis issues often follow rest and rehab for other issues .
I have two older high mileage horses who have lateral extensions we do other stuff to keep them comfy as well but my unscientific observation is that the lateral extensions have helped

 

[Michen]

Sadly hock arthritis issues often follow rest and rehab for other issues .
I have two older high mileage horses who have lateral extensions we do other stuff to keep them comfy as well but my unscientific observation is that the lateral extensions have helped

Yes it's immensely frustrating. But I'm hopeful next year when he's back to being fit, lean and in full work that his hocks won't cause any issues.

Were the horses showing signs of needing the extensions aka crushed wall?

 

[Goldenstar]

One was he’s was probably 17 then he’s a hunter twenty now huge mileage
I think they really helped him .
I would be tempted to try osteopen or similar as you increase the work or just jab the hocks with steroid as you increase the work .
That might just get the horse moving again and the hocks might settle .

 

[sjdress]

One of mine had lateral extensions as she was pivoting her hind leg and dropping the toe as well as wearing the outside. Think she wore them for about a year or so. We are now Experiencing similar So I am considering lateral extensions again

 

[Boulty]

With something arthritic would say the increased concussion from shoeing may negate any benefit. Would speak to your farrier & see if he shares the vet's concerns & see what he suggests. There might be things he can do with his trim to help him out with his hocks or he might be on same page as your vet. Another thought is what effect the boots will be having on how he breaks over behind & if they're helping or hindering. Anyhow if he's sound again atm & you're building back up slowly I wouldn't say you need to rush to make a decision.

 

[bouncing_ball]

Just booting in front? And what’s the breakover like in boots? Is he still heel first in boots?

 

[Michen]

Just booting in front? And what’s the breakover like in boots? Is he still heel first in boots?

No I'm booting in front and behind for most hacks. He's not rock crunching on stoney going and I want to keep him 100% comfortable. He lands slightly heel first in the boots I think, he's in easyboot gloves in front and scoots behind.

 

[ycbm]

Are his collateral grooves of equal depth Michen? On my barefoot horse with spavins I found that instead of growing himself lateral extensions, he created feet which had a markedly deeper groove on one side of the frog than the other, and that made him pretty comfortable.
.

 

[Michen]

Are his collateral grooves of equal depth Michen? On my barefoot horse with spavins I found that instead of growing himself lateral extensions, he created feet which had a markedly deeper groove on one side of the frog than the other, and that made him pretty comfortable.
.

Oh.. no idea! I’ll take some hoof photos tomorrow and pop them on here

 

[ycbm]

It won't show on a flat photo, you need to stick your fingers in them, or a stick . I took moulds of mine made of tinfoil. One side was nearly twice as deep as the other!

I have a picture somewhere.

 

[ycbm]

Found it!

 

[Michen]

Found it!

Thanks! Appreciated. I’ll have a look tomorrow. With foil!

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I was always advised to remove back shoes to help hock arthritis. Less
Concussion.

 

[bouncing_ball]

Thanks! Appreciated. I’ll have a look tomorrow. With foil!

Or you can measure collateral groove depth with a lollipop stick. I’ll find a photo ??

 

[bouncing_ball]

No I'm booting in front and behind for most hacks. He's not rock crunching on stoney going and I want to keep him 100% comfortable. He lands slightly heel first in the boots I think, he's in easyboot gloves in front and scoots behind.

Worth videoing and checking I think.

My horse is happier in boots on stones.

But some of the clumpier Bucket boot styles can need the boot toe rasping back to get heel first landing, as longer toe on boot gets in the way.

Cavallos and Fusions need a breakover rasping in toe for some horses, gloves might?

Performance fit boots tend to be fine. Scoots / evos etc

 

[bouncing_ball]

Or you can measure collateral groove depth with a lollipop stick. I’ll find a photo ??

http://www.thelaminitissite.org/articles/measuring-collateral-grooves

 

[Equi]

If you’re concerned about traditional shoes there are the glue on type that won’t have that but still provide the same support. But they’re bloody expensive.

 

[Caol Ila]

I've been lost in boot/barefoot faff-land. Pulling my horse's back shoes in 2017 definitely improved her way of going, until my useless hairbag of a farrier started hacking off her sole, and then she was not moving quite so well. Obviously. When I first transitioned, I bought Scoot boots.

Fast forward to barn move and a farrier who's not an idiot, and her feet improved and she was happily walking barefoot over rocks. Then six weeks ago, she had an abscess on one of her hind feet. I cleared that up relatively quickly, but the farrier said that the soles of her feet had become quite soft. I started hacking her out in the Scoot boots, and she seemed pretty happy for a couple weeks. Then two weeks ago, non-horsey OH was out walking with myself and two other riders and said she seemed to be landing funny behind. But she felt fine, and the two riders, both knowledgeable horsewomen with 40+ years of experience between them, thought she looked okay. Late last week, I felt like she went slightly lame on the last stretch home. After we got back to the barn and removed tack and boots, OH and I walked and trotted her up and she seemed sound. He thought she looked sound too. I did a schooling session the next day (barefoot) and she went well. Yesterday, while hacking, she once again didn't feel quite right on that last kilometer. But she was obviously fine this morning, because the yard staff would have told me if she wasn't. I brought her in from turnout this evening and she looked completely sound.

As I was trying to put boots on her today, it occurred to me that it was requiring a hell of a lot of force. Especially the left hind. I was having to whack the sh**t out of it in order to get it to a point where the horse's weight would do the rest of the work. These should not be so difficult to put on. And anyone who has ever worn a shight pair of hiking boots can tell you that they might feel fine when you set off, but after a while, you will be hating your life. So, I set off on my hack today barefoot. If the horse was sound, then I would know what the problem was. If not, I would call the vet. Did 1.5 hours and the horse felt great, even on the rocks, and she strode home happily and comfortably.

What have we learned? When the foot grows, the boots don't fit. The boots might also change its way of going and breakover, which could potentially irritate hock arthritis. And my OH should have become an equine lameness vet instead of an analytical chemist.

I'm making it up as I go. Nobody at my yard, including my farrier, really knows about boots.

 

[Caol Ila]

I should also add that the first day I noticed her being a wee bit unlevel, OH successfully removed her boots while I was faffing in the feed room after riding. I hadn't actually taught OH how to pick up a horse's feet. He'd never done it before, as far as I know. When I acted surprised, he shrugged and said he'd watched me do it a million times, and the horse had been waving her hind feet around (not both at once!) and looking at him. She clearly wanted to communicate to the human that she wanted those things off. Now.

They must affect biomechanics in some way. They can't not.

 

[Red-1]

Carol Ila, I think I am a little bit in love with your husband!

Other than that, back to the topic, if your vet was convinced that shoes were necessary, I would shoe. If he is 50/50 I would go with your heart, to leave barefoot, especially as there are other advantages.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Does he have a twist as he places the hind feet on the ground? Will you need road nails? I ask because my mare (bilateral hock arthritis) does have a twist, but our roads are so slippy that, if shod, she has to have road nails. I worry that road nails will not allow her to twist, which could make her more uncomfortable long term.

I had her shoes off and scoots for road work.

 

[Red-1]

The other thing that occurs to me is that he has come sound with his current set-up, you think that resting is what caused it, not shoeing, so why change what the set up is when he came sound?

 

[Michen]

Nope no twisting. Never needed or had road nails. But when he’s been in full work in recent years he’s been shod. I think I’m going to leave it for now and keep a very close eye, and see how much hacking we actually do over winter. I’m going to get some hoof pics and post for thoughts this week anyway!

 

[HashRouge]

I'd be inclined to try not booting behind unless you're doing a particularly long ride or going over very rough ground. It might encourage his hind feet to wear/ develop in a more supportive way. I would certainly shy away from shoeing atm if he looks sound.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Nope no twisting. Never needed or had road nails. But when he’s been in full work in recent years he’s smears been shod. I think I’m going to leave it for now and keep a very close eye, and see how much hacking we actually do over winter. I’m going to get some hoof pics and post for thoughts this week anyway!

My 15 year old has slight arthritic changes in his hocks he also did a suspensory on near side back leg, he is barefoot as he was diagnosed with navicular about 3 years ago, he only ever had front shies previous to that he dies look a bit stiff to start with but 10 minutes and his fine, I feed him boswellia, msm and micronised linseed daily I would say extreme weather can make him look worse.

 

[soloequestrian]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but doesn't flat ground, e.g. a road surface, give a very large lateral extension without nailing anything to the foot?

 

[sbloom]

This may be useful

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10164480017015713

and

https://www.facebook.com/hoofscanandhoofcarecentre/posts/4326253127448127

 

[GinaGeo]

I'm finding this thread really interesting.

One of my horses was originally shod for the first time at six because his lateral heels behind were collapsing, and the vet wanted him shod for support. When he was eight he threw a curb, which he came sound from. He's now twelve and has had lateral extensions behind for about a year and half. I haven't had him X-rayed. But I would say that he is showing signs of arthritis behind.

He had his shoes off three weeks ago when I made the decision to try and keep the concussion to a minimum and to see what his feet do themselves. We're not far enough in to be of much help in your decision making process yet I'm afraid, but I am interested to read the replies.

Sbloom - the links you have posted are particularly interesting

 

[Michen]

I'd be inclined to try not booting behind unless you're doing a particularly long ride or going over very rough ground. It might encourage his hind feet to wear/ develop in a more supportive way. I would certainly shy away from shoeing atm if he looks sound.

Thanks. I'm wary of doing this as he typically doesn't grow to the same level he wears and sometimes becomes footy. There isn't really a slow way of building up the roadwork where I am without turning around, which tends to "set him off", when I'm trying to keep him chilled.


Tricky...

Maybe I am mollycoddling his feet too much though. I'll get some photos tomorrow and see what people think of them!