Shooting a horse

[Kenzo]

Following on from the horse meat thread.

(sorry I know this is not a pleasant subject, please don't read if you will find it upsetting)


But I do like to know the in's and out's of everything otherwise I will always wonder and its not something I like to wonder about.

If destroying a horse in the above way do the vets use a different method than the hunt, local knacker man and finally the large scale abattoirs?

By this I mean the use of either bell gun or the captive bolt which only really stuns them because the skull is too hard, but if the captive bolt they should be bled out like beef cattle (although the other reasons for doing this is down to the meat etc).

And, what is an ILPH approved abattoir, for example Potters is.

This is not a debate about if horses should be PTS this way, I'm just interested in how people can be sure that it's done correctly and all above board etc who ever you choose to do it.

 

[touchstone]

I've been with three horses as they were shot, once by the knackerman and twice by the vet. On all occasions a free bullet was used; I wouldn't be happy with captive bolt on mine tbh.

 

[RuthnMeg]

A free bullet was used on all the horses I've had the dealings with sadly. 2 have been mine, others were accidents at competitions and not my horses. All but one was a vet. The other was the hunt kennel man.

 

[JoG]

Ditto - Marcus was done with a bullet. Fair amount of blood from his nostrils

 

[Kenzo]

Right ok.

When I had my last one PTS (I had to walk away, it was just too much for me to take in) but my dad stayed with him and he said they the guy used a gun, but with not being there I'd often wondered, I think next time (which I suppose one day it will happen) I'd like to stick around and see it being done, which i know will be terrible to watch but to me its better than not knowing what goes on (if you can make sense of that).

 

[charlie76]

with all the ones I have been with the difference between shooting and injection is that the injection stops the heart so the horse just crumples to the floor where as when you shoot the horse it goes into the brain/nervous system so the horses scramble about as they go down and twitch a lot more as the systems shut down.
The horse is unaware of all of this but it can look more upsetting for the owner.

 

[JoG]

I had to watch marcus (chestnut on right of my sig) being done. I had to hold him and I had to pat him afterwards - it wouldn't have felt right otherwise If you want me to let you know what to expect drop me a PM.

I would suggest you put ear plugs in. My ears were ringing for the rest of the day from the noise of the gun

 

[FionaMc]

Right ok.

When I had my last one PTS (I had to walk away, it was just too much for me to take in) but my dad stayed with him and he said they the guy used a gun, but with not being there I'd often wondered, I think next time (which I suppose one day it will happen) I'd like to stick around and see it being done, which i know will be terrible to watch but to me its better than not knowing what goes on (if you can make sense of that).

I totally know what you mean - I've never seen a horse PTS but, given that I've had my current horse for 12 years and know she has a home for life, I want to be prepared to be with her when it happens, but like you, I want to know what to expect and what's normal, so that I know everything is as it should be. It's scary, but I think another responsibility I owe my horse when it comes to it.

 

[milliepops]

with all the ones I have been with the difference between shooting and injection is that the injection stops the heart so the horse just crumples to the floor where as when you shoot the horse it goes into the brain/nervous system so the horses scramble about as they go down and twitch a lot more as the systems shut down.
The horse is unaware of all of this but it can look more upsetting for the owner.

Funny, cos my experiences were the complete opposite.

Sorry OP, can't answer your question directly but I have seen several put down by local knacker with a gun - they all went straight to the ground and bled a lot.

 

[MontyandZoom]

I actually totally get this!! ( I have a strange brain too! ).

I decided to have Monty boy shot by the knackerman instead of having the vet (vet was a bit miffed but hey ho). To me, it seemed like the cleanest and quickest way for him to go. I had an indepth chat with the knackerman which felt very odd, but to me, I NEEDED to know every little detail of how things would pan out. I felt strongly that I owed it to Monty to stay until the end.

As is happens, I decided on my OH's and the farmer's advice not to stay with him. This was because he was easily distressed and my presence would not have helped (crying hysterically and flailing.......didn't expect to be like that but shamefully, I was ). However, the fact that I knew exactly where he would stand etc was important to me. We walked away and listened for the shot.

I can't really see the place for a captive bolt with horses.....I mean it's always got to be the cleanest method, be it a meat horse or a companion. That said, I've never seen it done so who knows.

God, my pointless ramblings are beginning to reach Kenzo-proportions!

 

[precious1]

Ive never yet had to have one of my horses PTS and hopefully wnt have to for a long time to come.
my friends have and all have used the injection by the vet which was very peacefull, like others have said no real body reactions compared to gun method.

 

[Nickie]

Somebody once told me that a young horse has a strong heart therefore when you put a horse to sleep by lethal injection it's body will fight the injection for a bit longer whereas a bullet is instant.

If the horse was really poorly I think I would go for the injection but if it was a young horse that say broke its leg, I think I would go for the bullet.

It's one of those decisions you hope you will never have to make but you always have it stored in the back of your head just in case

 

[Kenzo]

God, my pointless ramblings are beginning to reach Kenzo-proportions!

Oh dear, that means you'll be needing a bullet soon



On a serious note though, I too thought I could stay with him but it was suggested (or should I say drilled into me) by my dad, OH and fellow livery that I was in the right mental state to deal with it, as I'd just lost my mum 2 months before and I wouldnt of got the image out of my head, the last one I had was of me leading him out of the field and letting in grass in the spot where he was to to taken out, then left him with my dad, even my dad didnt take it very well, so I'd of never have coped back then, but now I think I would, I'd at least want to try as the torment of not knowing can be equally as bad.

 

[marmalade76]

Found this when looking at the options for my horse when the time comes (he is on borrowed time).

DON'T WATCH IF EASILY UPSET!

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/f/CAMPAIGNS/blog//4//?be_id=92

 

[BBP]

I think you did the right thing, it was important to me that my little girl didn't know that anything strange was going on. If I had thought I couldn't hold it together I wouldnt have held her, but I figured there was plenty of time for me to cry afterwards, it wasn't fair on her to do it before. She had had the vet out several times so that was nothing new. I held her (having spent the day plaiting her up to look gorgeous), patted her and fed her pears as it was done (injection not bullet so can't help you there). It was mega fast, she staggered backwards, collapsed her back end and then died before her front end hit the ground and was absolutely still, all within 2 seconds. I held her head and kept her eyes covered for a few minutes just in case (if not actually dead, the blink reflex is gone so would not be able to block out the sun).

Then I went home and cried for weeks!

 

[Clodagh]

I don't think the captive bolt is used anymore on horses, if anyone did they would be very old fashioned.
Injection on an elderly or in pain or shock horse doesn't work very well as the circulation is already closing down. Gun is surer as long as the person holding it knows what they are doing, get someone recommended by word of mouth! Knackermen are the best, or nice experienced huntsmen as they know what they are doing.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

my friends pony was PTS last year but injection and it took her half an hour to go. Not nice...

She was not specially old tho so, I think the view of shooting younger horses or injured ones but injecting very old weak ones has some merit.

I would prefer a hunt kennels to shoot my old hunter and have him but theres not really any hunts in my area of NE Scotland. But would prefer the gun, the messy stuff is after they are dead which is my problem not the horses whereas with the injection it can be the horse suffering.

So gun for me.

 

[reindeerlover]

Found this when looking at the options for my horse when the time comes (he is on borrowed time).

DON'T WATCH IF EASILY UPSET!

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/f/CAMPAIGNS/blog//4//?be_id=92

You see, I think that looks fine. The pony is relaxed, nobody is hurting him or scaring him. He obviously dies quickly, the shaking when he's on the floor is purely the nervous system and muscle twitching. I have always had mine injected but I don't have a problem with shooting.

 

[charlie76]

Can't see anything wrong with the video, men quiet with the horse, horse had no idea, quicky shot, cleared up afterwards.

 

[Indy]

I've held 4 horses to be PTS. 3 were my own and 1 was a gypsy pony in a RTA which I held because the attending police officers didn't want to do it.

Chloe and Blue were by bullet - it was quick and clean, not a lot of blood involved for either of them.

Indy and the gypsy pony were by injection - again both times quick and clean.

The worst for me was Indy because he was stood and looking absolutely perfectly healthy and beautiful- you wouldn't have realised anything was wrong. Chloe, Blue and the gypsy pony - it was obvious they needed immediate attention.

I can't comment which is the best method because for me they both were painless and quick. The only thing is if you have the injection it costs more to have the body taken away. Although if you were cremating that wouldn't be the case.

The other thing I would say is once it's done walk away. I watched Indy being winched into the transporter and it's the first thing I think of when I think of my beautiful boy. I never stayed for the others.

 

[marmalade76]

It will be the gun for my horse too - I have also heard stories about lethal injections taking some time to work. It will be the hunt for mine, they will come and shoot him at home and he won't know anything about it. I don't think I will be able to be there myself though.

 

[Cocoa]

The captive bolt is usually only used on horses these days in situations where it is not possible to use a free bullet, such as on an aeroplane (if the horse panics or injures itself very severly)where free bullets are not allowed due to risk of damage to the aeroplane.

Unfortunately as every horse is different you can get the horrible movement with either the bullet or injection but the bullet is the quickest method of killing a horse, if done properly (bullet is supposed to travel through the brain into the spinal cord). The injection can take some time to stop the heart and as others have said the horses body naturally fights against it (which is one of the reasons why the vets give a sedative/muscle relaxant along with the lethal dose, to try and prevent the obvious signs of struggle). Personal preference but I would choose to have my horses shot as I believe this is quickest and causes least suffering to them.

 

[Cocoa]

And, what is an ILPH approved abattoir, for example Potters is.

I am hazarding a guess that this means WHW (ILPH) have assessed the abattoir and have given them approval under their welfare standards?!

 

[TheMule]

I've seen plenty done at an abbatoir and it's very, very quick, I've never seen it go wrong or not be instant. They do twitch and can carry on twitching for a while- 1 was even twitching and it's tail was flicking over once it's head had been cut off.
They bleed them as soon as theyre hitched up by the hindlegs and then the head is off within minutes.

 

[Donkeymad]

Sorry, but the captive bolt can and does easily kill them instantly and outright, with some bleeding but not masses. No further action is required after (bleeding out)

 

[Bowen4Horses]

I had to watch marcus (chestnut on right of my sig) being done. I had to hold him and I had to pat him afterwards - it wouldn't have felt right otherwise

i'm actually crying here...

poor you. poor marcus. it's horrible to think how close raff came to that. ((hugs))

 

[peanut]

I'm reading this thread (but can't bring myself to watch the video) because I know one day I'll have to make the decision for my horse, but from all your replies I still don't know what I'd choose.

 

[Kenzo]

Sorry, but the captive bolt can and does easily kill them instantly and outright, with some bleeding but not masses. No further action is required after (bleeding out)

I think that depends on the type used though, there is a penetrating captive bolt and a nonpenetrating captive bolt, one will kill out right if used correctly, the other will only stun the horse, it won't kill the horse straight away.

 

[Ditchjumper2]

The horse I held was shot by the kennel man and he was dead before he hit the ground. No twitching and not much blood. I was very impressed. Personally I think the worse part is the winching them in the trailer. I held him but kept out of the way of the winching part.

 

[tibby]

I work for my family's pet cremation business and have collected many horses and ponies, I have witnessed several being pts, I always ask the owners to walk away while we winch into the trailer as there is no nice way to do this, and I would hate the owners to have this as their last image of their best friend.