Shooting and hunting

[Herne]

Yes but plainly you have not done enough to prevent the Hunting Act 2004 or to facilitate repeal. I bet you have never campaigned in urban areas?

I do hope you'd like to put a large sum of money on that bet? Very, very large...

I lay the blame for the Hunting Act and lack of repeal with the bucolic parochialism of the majority of masters of hounds.

Sadly, I think there is a lot of truth in that.

 

[Herne]

You are making very huge assumptions about other peoples experience and knowledge without knowing who they are.

You think that more then 50% of the people on this forum have been Masters of hounds? Really? You amaze me...

(and frighten me)

 

[Alec Swan]

Herne, having read Clodagh's previous posts on this subject, it's been my understanding that her resistance to those who would hunt on her land, isn't as you appear to suggest, that as she no longer hunts so she isn't going to permit others to do so, but all to do with the fact that previously and so presumably now, those who would enter her land seem to do so with no level of consideration for growing crops, in the main, and the level of disruption as a secondary lack of consideration.

We all understand that when a mounted field enter on to the property of others, there is bound to be some 'residue' by way of their attendance, but and I'm reading between the lines, with an apparent and total disregard for the fact that crop damage is costly, so the lady and her husband have understandably said 'Enough'.

We no longer have the 'fallow' system which we had 40-50 years ago, when land was left as stubble and ready for Spring drilling, and generally Winter drill goes in as soon as harvest finishes, just about. A mounted field of 50-100 riders thundering about on new drill is going to cause realistic and unacceptable damage. If I'm right in my assumption, then Clodagh has a valid point.

It's high time that those who Hunt showed a little more consideration and understood that costly damage simply can't be tolerated.

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

You think that more then 50% of the people on this forum have been Masters of hounds? Really? You amaze me...

(and frighten me)

Is the MoH the only person who has an understanding of Hunting?

Alec.

 

[Herne]

Herne, having read Clodagh's previous posts on this subject, it's been my understanding that her resistance to those who would hunt on her land, isn't as you appear to suggest, that as she no longer hunts so she isn't going to permit others to do so, but all to do with the fact that previously and so presumably now, those who would enter her land seem to do so with no level of consideration for growing crops, in the main, and the level of disruption as a secondary lack of consideration.

Alec, that's fair enough. If the hunt and/or it's followers have blotted their copy-book, then that's a different kettle of fish - although, I would still hope that an ex-hunter would be infinitely more tolerant than someone who hadn't - but everyone has a breaking point and lack of consideration is inexcusable.

I was replying exclusively to the quote as quoted. I was not aware of the back-story.

If a hunt doesn't behave as it should, then it can only expect to be barred whoever owns the land...

 

[Herne]

Is the MoH the only person who has an understanding of Hunting?

Nope - but the quote was about hunting people's (and, specifically, my) attitude to Farmers = and in that regard, MoH's attitudes are tested under fire in a way that other people's are not.

Those that have a bad attitude to their farmers do not last very long at all - or, at least, one has to hope for the sake of their hunt that they don't...

 

[Clodagh]

I appreciate your defence, Alec, but the ignorance of the 'new hunters' isn't really what made me ask the question although they have certainly coloured our views. It was mainly a friend saying to me that people who hunt DID pay for their sport, just as much as shooting people do, and not seeing the difference.
The hunt met next door today. They came on our land, as we said they could, to go across the road from our main coverts. They also knew if the line led this way they could follow it, but not cast for one in the coverts in the first instant. A fair compromise between two sports I think. I got my horses in, opened all my gates, took the wire off the hunt jumps, shut my chickens in and rounded up my senile old dog, there wasn't a lot more we were prepared to do.

I think the person who said it is mainly not to put any more pressure on the game keeper (who in our case is a friend and does the whole thing for nothing) got it spot on.

 

[twiggy2]

Herne in your opinion do the hunt give anything in return for what they get when they are allowed to hunt over someones land? if so what?

 

[Herne]

The hunt met next door today. They came on our land, as we said they could, to go across the road from our main coverts. They also knew if the line led this way they could follow it, but not cast for one in the coverts in the first instant. A fair compromise between two sports I think. I got my horses in, opened all my gates, took the wire off the hunt jumps, shut my chickens in and rounded up my senile old dog, there wasn't a lot more we were prepared to do.

Well, if you did all that, then you are certainly doing your bit. You were fibbing when you said you keep it all to yourself...

I appreciate your defence, Alec, but the ignorance of the 'new hunters' isn't really what made me ask the question although they have certainly coloured our views. It was mainly a friend saying to me that people who hunt DID pay for their sport, just as much as shooting people do, and not seeing the difference.

Ignorance is a sad thing. Hunters do pay a lot of money for their hobby - but they don't pay the farmers for their hospitality, and it's a bit sad that people don't understand the difference.

I think the person who said it is mainly not to put any more pressure on the game keeper (who in our case is a friend and does the whole thing for nothing) got it spot on.

Ironically enough, that was me...

 

[Herne]

Herne in your opinion do the hunt give anything in return for what they get when they are allowed to hunt over someones land? if so what?

Good question. In a word, no (apart from the fallen stock service, where relevant, but that is by no means universal).

Most farmers who continue to welcome the hunt would probably scratch their heads a bit if you asked them to say why. I think for most of them it's probably a mixture of not wanting to kill the tradition and a general belief that hunting with hounds does have its place within the countryside - plus, these days, a certain amount of belligerence in feeling that if other people are telling them that they can't have hunting on their land, then they're damned well going to have hunting on their land because it's their land and they'll decide what happens on it, thank you very much.

And that is one of the wonderful things about hunting - there is nothing in this world quite like a British hunt. An average hunt may cover 2,000 square miles of country; have around 100 subscribers; around 400 supporters club members and over 500 and landowners and could cost around a hundred grand a year to run.

That's over a thousand people all working together in a community, raising tens of thousands of pounds, organising anything up to a hundred days of activity over 2000 square miles of country - and its all because people generally believe that it is a good thing. No one is making any money out of it. It costs everyone involved and yet they all still keep doing it because they believe that it "should be done".

And that is one of the reasons why you can tell that the anti-hunters are mistaken. If the motives behind hunting were foul and impure as they believe, it simply would not work. That level of altruistic cooperation just couldn't hold together.

Personally, I am not one of those apologists who shy away from the welfare and conservation arguments either. I believe that hunting with hounds has a definite and beneficial role to play in the management of the British countryside - and that it happens over a larger than single-farm scale - but that is probably a topic for a different thread if people want to revisit it.

 

[Clodagh]

It was out of a sense of obligation, and liking the master concerned more than anything.