Shooting of Cheshire Forest Hounds

Clodagh

Clodagh

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OH is trying to work out what happened with the two hounds being shot on Feb 12th. The man who shot them has been released without charge, were they rioting on stock does anyone know?
Then the two women connected to the hunt? Why have they been arrested? We are coming up with a load of scenarios but then thought maybe someone on here might actually know.
 
I hadn't heard anything about this , just googled and very confusing. I thought it was retired hounds being shot but they appear to have been hunting at the time, very strange.
 
I believe that the hounds were rioting and were shot by the farmer, which he is entitled to do if livestock was being chased or attacked.

www.northwichguardian.co.uk

Huntswomen in court on animal welfare charges after hound shot at and killed

Armed police were called to a report hounds had been shot at in a field off Barnhouse Lane, Great Barrow, at around 3pm on Wednesday, February 12.
www.northwichguardian.co.uk www.northwichguardian.co.uk

It’s a new thing in Cheshire for the Rural Crime Team to go for the hunt officials for failing to take proper care of the hounds. The Cheshire Hunt officials are facing similar charges for having unattended hounds milling about on a public road during a hunting day, though no hounds were shot.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Trail hunting 'at risk if Cheshire Hunt directors prosecuted' court told

CHESTER Magistrates Court has set the trial date of three directors of Cheshire Hunt accused of animal welfare crimes.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk www.chesterstandard.co.uk
 
Tiddlypom said:
I believe that the hounds were rioting and were shot by the farmer, which he is entitled to do if livestock was being chased or attacked.

www.northwichguardian.co.uk

Huntswomen in court on animal welfare charges after hound shot at and killed

Armed police were called to a report hounds had been shot at in a field off Barnhouse Lane, Great Barrow, at around 3pm on Wednesday, February 12.
www.northwichguardian.co.uk www.northwichguardian.co.uk

It’s a new thing in Cheshire for the Rural Crime Team to go for the hunt officials for failing to take proper care of the hounds. The Cheshire Hunt officials are facing similar charges for having unattended hounds milling about on a public road during a hunting day, though no hounds were shot.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Trail hunting 'at risk if Cheshire Hunt directors prosecuted' court told

CHESTER Magistrates Court has set the trial date of three directors of Cheshire Hunt accused of animal welfare crimes.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk www.chesterstandard.co.uk
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Thank you TP. Yes it’s right and legal for them to be shot if they were on stock. I presumed that must be the case as he was arrested and released without charge.
We just couldn’t see the connection with the women then getting arrested. Ty!
 
Poor hounds, I hope he was a good shot and that they didn't suffer.
We need to remember that they are innocent animals following natural instincts.

☹️
 
www.northwichguardian.co.uk

Huntswomen deny failings after hound killed by train and two shot on same day

Elizabeth Gorse, of Sugar Lane, Frodsham, and Teryl Knowles, of Seven Sisters Lane, Ollerton, stand charged by Cheshire Police under the Animal…
www.northwichguardian.co.uk www.northwichguardian.co.uk

Worse than I thought.

Not just the hound shot and killed when rioting, but another killed after being hit by a train on the same day 😳. The two women charged are directors of the Cheshire Forest Hunt, and one is a vet. The Cheshire Police Rural Crime Team are going for the organ grinders, not the monkey.

The hound that was shot was panicking horses in a field.

Trial date set for December.
 
Tiddlypom said:
www.northwichguardian.co.uk

Huntswomen deny failings after hound killed by train and two shot on same day

Elizabeth Gorse, of Sugar Lane, Frodsham, and Teryl Knowles, of Seven Sisters Lane, Ollerton, stand charged by Cheshire Police under the Animal…
www.northwichguardian.co.uk www.northwichguardian.co.uk

Worse than I thought.

Not just the hound shot and killed when rioting, but another killed after being hit by a train on the same day 😳. The two women charged are directors of the Cheshire Forest Hunt, and one is a vet. The Cheshire Police Rural Crime Team are going for the organ grinders, not the monkey.

The hound that was shot was panicking horses in a field.

Trial date set for December.
Click to expand...
Hunting doesn’t need antis, it’s got itself!
I didn’t know you could shoot dogs that were upsetting horses. I mean I can see why would but didn’t know you could. (But obviously you can).
 
Horses aren’t technically livestock so I wasn’t sure about that either.

Comeuppance for the hunt who reported the hound being shot by the man trying to protect the horses.

The days of hunts being number one priority traffic with all else to defer to them are long gone, but there are plenty of entitled farts about (both young and old) who have yet to realise this.
 
I’m surprised the prosecution is just of the hunt directors, rather than the master on the day. You would think the master (or whichever hunt person is in charge of the hounds during a meet- is that the huntsman/whipper in? I’m not a hunt person if you can’t tell 😂) would be blamed for not keeping the hounds under control in the actual moment.
 
Much though our local hunt has had other issues, not being in control of the hounds is not one of them - they hunt in a tight pack and exercise in the summer with two men on push bikes, in total control. If they aren’t where they should be, they’ve been allowed to be there - the hounds are very well trained. We come across them fairly regularly and have never had an issue in that respect.

So it must be possible to train hounds well enough that they do not end up goodness knows where. I also do wonder why go after the directors - will they argue lack of training? Because on the day, surely the hunt staff were in charge?
 
Presume Police would charge the employer, rather than the staff. The business might have to prove that all training etc had been satisfactorily undertaken and passed?

Look at a hunt as a business, think how similar might apply. Joe Bloggs works in a factory and causes Mrs X to get her hand damaged in a machine. There will be blame on all sides!
 
Tiddlypom said:
Horses aren’t technically livestock so I wasn’t sure about that either.

Comeuppance for the hunt who reported the hound being shot by the man trying to protect the horses.

The days of hunts being number one priority traffic with all else to defer to them are long gone, but there are plenty of entitled farts about (both young and old) who have yet to realise this.
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You are correct, but there's no 'technical' about it - legally horses are not livestock for the purpose of the relevant Act.
 
minesadouble said:
You are correct, but there's no 'technical' about it - legally horses are not livestock for the purpose of the relevant Act.
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Thank you.

I had hounds rioting in my own fields a few months ago, but luckily being at home I had heard them before they broke in and had just grabbed my own two horses in seconds beforehand. My IDx would have charged them, it would have been carnage.

I had nothing but my voice and actions to chase the hounds out, and believe me I was incandescent so I was loud. The hounds completely ignored me, and they only left of their own accord to cause havoc elsewhere.

I did later get an apology from the hunt, but only because I had the photos to prove the trespass as the hounds were completely unaccompanied. There was allegedly antis out at the time who interfered with the huntsman’s control of hounds and caused the pack to split, but I still maintain that if a hunt has not got 100% control of the whole pack at all times and knows where every hound is then they shouldn’t be out.

They were still calling hounds in well after dark.

I find the charges of “failing in the duty of a person responsible for animals to ensure welfare” which are facing the directors of the second pack, the Cheshire Hunt, to be most interesting. Hounds weren’t apparently causing a nuisance other than by milling about without anyone overseeing them on a public road. That happens a lot in these parts, antis or not. You’re driving along and you suddenly come across random hounds on the road. If those charges are upheld, that is a massive legal precedent. And the charges are against the directors of the hunt, not the huntsman/whipper in.

Mr Welford, defending the trio, told Chester Magistrates Court on Friday, March 21, that the case is ‘national importance’ as it is the first type of prosecution.

The court heard that that the dogs had been hunting trails that day but ended up on the road without a mounted person with them.

He added that ‘it could have caused injury, according to the police’, and he suggests that if it is a successful prosecution then it could mean ‘hunts across the country cannot continue’.

He said that ‘hounds do get away’ and reiterated that ‘it could be of national importance’ before asking for a trial to be heard in front of a District Judge.
 
Livestock has a restricted meaning in an agricultural context. The definitions in the ATA 1995 and the Agricultural Holdings Act 1986 frequently cause problems in relation to horses. These definitions only include horses kept for their meat, hides or for use in farming the land, such as ploughing or drawing farm vehicles. They do not include horses kept for recreational, stud or equestrian purposes.

From t'internet, but it confirms what I thought.

If it was horses that were being worried, then that will be an interesting slant. We have had 2 dead horses locally due to hounds breaking into their field and worrying them. One was chased through an electric fence and injured, the other died of colic that night.
 
minesadouble said:
You are correct, but there's no 'technical' about it - legally horses are not livestock for the purpose of the relevant Act.
Click to expand...


That is correct, I think, but it's not illegal to kill an animal as humanely as the circumstances allow. The charge would probably have to be criminal damage and I don't believe that would get a conviction in the case of a dog threatening damage to your horse and unable to be stopped in any other way.
.
 
ycbm said:
That is correct, I think, but it's not illegal to kill an animal as humanely as the circumstances allow. The charge would probably have to be criminal damage and I don't believe that would get a conviction in the case of a dog threatening damage to your horse and unable to be stopped in any other way.
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A dog / dogs worrying a horse can certainly be destroyed, and I’d advise you do exactly that.
Can be shot if the person protecting the horse has appropriate gun licence, or put down subsequently by a vet, having been seized by the Police.
As an observation, shooting a dog whilst madly running a horse is unlikely to be an easy or clean shot.
I was once foolish enough to disregard the Police (Dogs & Wildlife) Officer’s advice to insist on this - hoping, idiotically - that the furore and formal Police caution would sufficiently embarrass and impress the owner of an out of control whippet that ran my hunter ragged, to keep the f*#*#!? thing on a lead.
Did it again shortly afterwards, the horse broke a leg and was destroyed.
 
just out of curiosity what happens if the horse kills the hound? That so nearly happened to me. One stray hound ran through the wrong horse's field. Horse not scared, he was furious. Chased hound out, flat out across the yard and hound basically hit the house back door horse almost attached to the horse's teeth. The hound only lived because I was there, charged after them both and the hound found a sort on inlet by the door which gave it half a minute whilst I got the horse off. (the hound was OK other than shaken) If I hadn't been there it wouldn't have been.
Horse hadn't done it before, he didn't have "form" for it.
 
Even if the horse did have form for hating strange dogs, which my IDx cross does, what comeback could there be if she attacked a hound which trespassed into her field? She’d have gone for the kill no messing.

She is otherwise angelic and is lovely and mannerly to be handled by people.

Funnily enough she was bred by a staunch hunt supporter and will have seen hounds from a young age, but somewhere along the way something must have happened to her before I owned her to make her so very wary of strange dogs.
 
My Appy would take out a strange dog. A loose collie snapping at her field mate's legs was met with a furious mare. Collie hurdled the fence and never came near either horse again.

She's been in both times I've had loose hounds in the field. Enough escape routes for them.

IMO not under control if they are outside the boundaries of land they are allowed on or if off public bridleways. Having had 3 vet bills due to the hunt its a tetchy subject and I'll be interested in the outcome
 
I had an arab who hated dogs, picked them up and flung them accross the field if he could get hold of them. Very careful introductions meant he allowed our dogs in the field if we were there but stray dogs ended up hurt or dead.
 
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