windand rain
Well-Known Member
Hoping Kitten will get a bit longer as she grow she is coming two and a half butif not how do you get a saddle to fit a short back it will have to be pretty wide too
Short back and saddle fit
- Thread starter windand rain
- Start date
planete
Well-Known Member
I should have a saddler come to answer this question on Wednesday. I will let you know if I get an answer!
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
The saddle Rigsby came with is a touch long. I immediately had plans to change it, had a saddler booked even. Then the physio came and said his back was relaxed and free, and to leave it for now.
Goes against the grain for me, as usually the saddle, girth and pad are all fitted to within a whisker, but it seems that sometimes a slightly long saddle is not harmful.
I had looked at many solutions for him. One is treeless, where the pressure is more concentrated so a slightly longer saddle is tolerable, not sure I would want that for backing though as I do think they are less stable. One is a saddle with a bigger seat than panel size, OK for a balanced rider but not ideal. I think a straight cut one sits better without sliding back than a GP.
For now he has a slightly long one. I can manage a shorter saddle myself (his is currently in a 17.5 GP) but while ever he is comfortable and changing musculature (plus deciding what his long term weight will be) I am leaving it.
Goes against the grain for me, as usually the saddle, girth and pad are all fitted to within a whisker, but it seems that sometimes a slightly long saddle is not harmful.
I had looked at many solutions for him. One is treeless, where the pressure is more concentrated so a slightly longer saddle is tolerable, not sure I would want that for backing though as I do think they are less stable. One is a saddle with a bigger seat than panel size, OK for a balanced rider but not ideal. I think a straight cut one sits better without sliding back than a GP.
For now he has a slightly long one. I can manage a shorter saddle myself (his is currently in a 17.5 GP) but while ever he is comfortable and changing musculature (plus deciding what his long term weight will be) I am leaving it.
MrsMozartleto
Just passing through...
Try asking Poppy Webber at Peewee Saddlery. I'm sure I saw something she'd written on dealing with a shortie.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
My PRE is insanely short backed. He has a long withers that suddenly turns into his rump. Shoulders, rump, where's the middle part? My saddle is a smidgen too long, but the horse has no pain or objections. Multiple saddlers have approved of this so I go with it. I did switch him to a well fitting shorter saddle but he was worse in it. So, go figure.
There are a lot of options for short backed horses though. As for the width, this isn't really my place...but she could stand to lose some weight. If you keep her weight down and she's fit, this will also make the fitting easier.
Even then she may be a bit wider and not have a prominent wither, but I've seen a lot of "native" saddle options too. I'm in a few saddle FB groups, casually shopping, and a lot pop up. Mostly GP.
There are a lot of options for short backed horses though. As for the width, this isn't really my place...but she could stand to lose some weight. If you keep her weight down and she's fit, this will also make the fitting easier.
Even then she may be a bit wider and not have a prominent wither, but I've seen a lot of "native" saddle options too. I'm in a few saddle FB groups, casually shopping, and a lot pop up. Mostly GP.
windand rain
Well-Known Member
She isnt very fat she has a mahoosive coat can feel last ribs but agree as she gets older she needs to be trimmer while growing and changing and not having had any cold weather yet I am not too worried yet. I will be if she is still that size in Spring However next summer she will be on a track with the others. Saddle wise the one we were sitting on her back is a 17 inch wintec it just looked huge 
Yes it is too far forward the photo was taken before I slid it back Photographer was a bit previous but is only just 10 so I forgive her
Yes it is too far forward the photo was taken before I slid it back Photographer was a bit previous but is only just 10 so I forgive her
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Well, she is 2, which can be a really strange looking time. So a reassessment in the next year or two could yield different results, but she will likely be a compact model.
The Wintecs can have long flat panels on some of their saddles. Some saddles offer an upswept panel as opposed to gusseted and that could work better for a short back. I have a Sommer with 17.5 seat with a short but wide contact surface. They do have decent short and wide options, Black Country and Frank Baines do as well (just off the top of my head). So the Sommer actually fits within the very little real estate my horse has for a weight bearing surface. However his back is quite straight, so it rocks. So when she evens out you should be able to see if she will be more curvy or flat too. I think fitting anything to a 2 year old is a hard task! So I wouldn't think about it for now.
I think there are brands more tailored to the wide compact variety, I think @sbloom has knowledge on this.
The Wintecs can have long flat panels on some of their saddles. Some saddles offer an upswept panel as opposed to gusseted and that could work better for a short back. I have a Sommer with 17.5 seat with a short but wide contact surface. They do have decent short and wide options, Black Country and Frank Baines do as well (just off the top of my head). So the Sommer actually fits within the very little real estate my horse has for a weight bearing surface. However his back is quite straight, so it rocks. So when she evens out you should be able to see if she will be more curvy or flat too. I think fitting anything to a 2 year old is a hard task! So I wouldn't think about it for now.
I think there are brands more tailored to the wide compact variety, I think @sbloom has knowledge on this.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
So many different ways to tackle this, I agree you can't think what might fit her yet.
Wider seat - carries a bigger bottom better but not all horses can carry a wider seat
Flatter seat - more space for bigger bottom and can be helpful for longer legs, and a flatter tree is nearly always better for these shapes of backs anyway. Their backs are flat, curvy trees are not for slightly scoopy backs, they're for higher withers, and have the wrong shape of rails for natives, cobs etc. There is even research saying that narrow twists (wrong shape of rails) are bad on whatever shape of horse, it's all relative, the wider the better generally.
More forwards flap - for longer legs, may still affect the fit as it lengthens the overall footprint even if it is the same seat size and panel length out from under the cantle
Shorter panel - a lot of bluster out there about this. There is ALWAYS a compromise. If your horse doesn't need a deep rear gusset to balance the saddle then your options open up, if your horse is very croup high or scoopy backed, then you can end up with an inch shorter. What is not true is that you can simply order a saddle with a shorter panel. The SMS advises you should only go 1/2" shorter, and we have shortened our panels over the years but it has meant a very slight reduction in the depth of the gusset on some models. For most natives and cobs this works well. If you get it wrong the saddle will tip back, OR you have to widen the tree too much to lower the front and end up with rock/roll and/or the back lifting, OR the flocking ends up all over the shop trying to balance it, ie rock hard at the back and not enough at the front.
So there are solutions, and treeless could be one, but it's not a simple fix - some will slip, many don't spread weight well, and some horses and riders really dislike them.
Find a specialist in wider horses and natives and work with them
Wider seat - carries a bigger bottom better but not all horses can carry a wider seat
Flatter seat - more space for bigger bottom and can be helpful for longer legs, and a flatter tree is nearly always better for these shapes of backs anyway. Their backs are flat, curvy trees are not for slightly scoopy backs, they're for higher withers, and have the wrong shape of rails for natives, cobs etc. There is even research saying that narrow twists (wrong shape of rails) are bad on whatever shape of horse, it's all relative, the wider the better generally.
More forwards flap - for longer legs, may still affect the fit as it lengthens the overall footprint even if it is the same seat size and panel length out from under the cantle
Shorter panel - a lot of bluster out there about this. There is ALWAYS a compromise. If your horse doesn't need a deep rear gusset to balance the saddle then your options open up, if your horse is very croup high or scoopy backed, then you can end up with an inch shorter. What is not true is that you can simply order a saddle with a shorter panel. The SMS advises you should only go 1/2" shorter, and we have shortened our panels over the years but it has meant a very slight reduction in the depth of the gusset on some models. For most natives and cobs this works well. If you get it wrong the saddle will tip back, OR you have to widen the tree too much to lower the front and end up with rock/roll and/or the back lifting, OR the flocking ends up all over the shop trying to balance it, ie rock hard at the back and not enough at the front.
So there are solutions, and treeless could be one, but it's not a simple fix - some will slip, many don't spread weight well, and some horses and riders really dislike them.
Find a specialist in wider horses and natives and work with them
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I’m sorry windandrain, I know it is t the question you asked and I hate giving unsolicited opinions, but for a 2yo I’d be seriously concerned with monitoring her weight
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
So many different ways to tackle this, I agree you can't think what might fit her yet.
Wider seat - carries a bigger bottom better but not all horses can carry a wider seat
Flatter seat - more space for bigger bottom and can be helpful for longer legs, and a flatter tree is nearly always better for these shapes of backs anyway. Their backs are flat, curvy trees are not for slightly scoopy backs, they're for higher withers, and have the wrong shape of rails for natives, cobs etc. There is even research saying that narrow twists (wrong shape of rails) are bad on whatever shape of horse, it's all relative, the wider the better generally.
More forwards flap - for longer legs, may still affect the fit as it lengthens the overall footprint even if it is the same seat size and panel length out from under the cantle
Shorter panel - a lot of bluster out there about this. There is ALWAYS a compromise. If your horse doesn't need a deep rear gusset to balance the saddle then your options open up, if your horse is very croup high or scoopy backed, then you can end up with an inch shorter. What is not true is that you can simply order a saddle with a shorter panel. The SMS advises you should only go 1/2" shorter, and we have shortened our panels over the years but it has meant a very slight reduction in the depth of the gusset on some models. For most natives and cobs this works well. If you get it wrong the saddle will tip back, OR you have to widen the tree too much to lower the front and end up with rock/roll and/or the back lifting, OR the flocking ends up all over the shop trying to balance it, ie rock hard at the back and not enough at the front.
So there are solutions, and treeless could be one, but it's not a simple fix - some will slip, many don't spread weight well, and some horses and riders really dislike them.
Find a specialist in wider horses and natives and work with them
This is why I hate saddle shopping and fitting (we also greatly lack fitters around here), its so...complicated to me. The tree with a bit more curve was intended to work for my high wither horse, but still just seems odd on his flat back. But a flat panel could also bridge on a back with more curve, so wouldn't it need a curvier tree?
With the approval of a SMS fitter, who I have to call over from another country, my horse was fit with a saddle that is just a smidge long. He's been fine with it. I do think some brands go nuts with the "you can have a 17.5" seat on a 16" panel" and when I foolishly tried that route years ago it ended with an unhappy horse.
windand rain
Well-Known Member
I will repeat she is not particularly fat it is easy to feel her ribs and has at least 4 inches of fluff. She is built like a brick outhouse. She is on restricted grazing and is not fed hay. So having cleared that up thank you for the saddlers comments. I know it is far too soon but I have a few years and need to save up. Hazels saddle is a made to measure and even after 20 years still fits is checked regularly. I am hoping to get a good saddle for Kitten so as I am not a saddle fitter I will be happy to take advice. Thank you Sbloom for your advice when the time comes I will be in touch. It will be about 2 years from now and all could/will have changed by then. I am firmly of the belief that young horsees should have the best saddle you cannot afford
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I saw a rear gusset on a rebadged Ideal that had gone back into a fitter to have the panel/rear gusset shortened, it was god-awful, wouldn't have fitted anything, too short, too low, saddle wouldn't have been in balance on any horse I've seen! If a saddle needs that much adjustment you're better off looking at another saddle, and if was a saddle that used to fit your horse, then that much change means a new tree shape is also highly likely to be needed.
Tree and panel are entirely different things, panels on curvy trees are often flat, the rear gusset has to be long and deep to balance a high wither on many horses. Bridging can come from too flat a panel as one of many reasons, and I think that's more common than it coming from too flat a tree as is commonly thought. I think too may trees are fitted too curvy.
Downside of curvy trees is the shape of the rails, usually being too narrow/upright in the rails giving a narrow twist https://srt2018.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/SRT-18-10.pdf
Here is a flat tree, curvy panel on the left (upswept, no gusset) and standard panel on the right.
