Shotguns

[Hersom]

We went out for a hack on Saturday down a public bridleway and saw signs that there was a shoot in progress on adjacent land, followed by quite a few shots. The horses were getting a bit spooky but were under control. We then saw a guy waving a flag on our left and shortly after saw a line of shooters (I won't say sportsmen at this point) on our right.

I should add that we were both wearing ex-police hi-vis jackets and that it was bright and sunny. We assumed that they had paused on seeing us and we both waved our thanks but as we drew level with one of the guns and at about 25m distance he swung round 90 degrees to us and fired both barrels. This was followed by some of his friends.

Our horses spooked badly and took a while to stop. Fast downhill with nowhere to go left or right and overhanging branches is tricky.

Questions

1 Is it good practice to drive birds across a public right of way. The notices implied the shooting was to to one side only
2 Was there anything else I could have done
3 I've calmed down now but could this have been a police matter

 

[Hayleycob]

There is some law about not shooting within (can't remember how far) of a public right of way.
Hey you get warning signs, they never bother with that round here ! One day I was just about managing to stop pony charging off in blind panic, until dead pheasants started raining down on us, then he was off......................!

 

[NeilM]

As I recall, it is illegal to discharge a firearm within 50 feet of the centre of a right of way. It is also unbelievably selfish to discharge a shotgun near a horse, as 90% of the horses I have ever come across cannot stand the noise, this is why I have always used a moderated air rifle when dealing with any 'rabbit / rat problems'.

I am very sorry to hear that these 'Sportsmen' put a drive of pheasants before the safety of people, on horseback or otherwise.

My advice would be to contact the BASC and let them know what happened, where and when.

 

[dwi]

I'm fairly sure that its 50ft as well but you'd want to double check. There are loads of shoots in this area and I do occassionally have to ride past one. Last time I shouted really loud "Can I come past please?" and they stopped to let me pass them. They may just be ignorant and not know the impact it will have on your horse

 

[Pedantic]

Why does the word gun and twat always seem to go together in my head.

 

[Baggybreeches]

Yes it is 50 ft in which case at 25m they are actually within the law, although I would say not particularly well mannered. Our land is bordered by 3 seperate shoots and I have to say they are all really good, my horses are actually not bothered by shotguns (they quite often sneak up on the OH when he is decoying!). I would perhaps find out who the gamekeeper is and have a friendly word with him, I would think that if you are riding over their shoot land then they will probably just give you a list of dates and tell you to ride elsewhere, but at least you will be safe!

 

[lilpinkdonkey4]

Im REALLY looking forward to the end of the shooting season!!!

Most of our hacking is on private land where they shoot and because of the covers we have been limited to where we can go.

Today though i went on my 'cover free' ride and rode straight into the middle of the shoot. Turned round and went home (was ready for a nice 2hr hack on my day off

). Anyway, I was SOOO impressed with my mare. despite riding into a shoot and the shoot continuing to shoot she didnt bat an eyelid. Not bothered. I expect it comes from spending 2 yrs at a yard where they had a duck shoot next door.

just read that back and i have said shoot lots of times, also there isnt much point to my relpy aprt from the fact that i can sympathise with you riding in/round shoots!

Anyway, not long now till they can hang up their guns for another summer!

 

[YorksG]

Not wanting to be controvertial, but if the shoots weren't there the landscape would be very different and if we fall out with other people who enjoy country pursuits we will end up with no friends left.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Sounds like they were probably within the law, just not very considerate. I have to say on the only time I had to ride through a shoot, I waited till they waved me on................I guess courtesy works both ways.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Oh Pedantic - I like where you're coming from!

 

[smilincow21]

At least you get signs, weget nothing like that so you dont realise till your smack bang in the middle! I stay away from the area on saturdays and hack else where just in case. Iv never had bad treatment by our shoot, but i stay away just in case. Maybe you should go on other hacks on shooting days, (although i understand this is not always possible!)

 

[Pedantic]

Why cant they use bloody silencers, bloody fed up with soddin noise everywhere, we can hear trial bikes and shotguns from MILES away, bloody noise pollutuon if you ask me, a 5 litre BMW can pass you on the motorway at 90mph and barely be heard, a bloody poxy polluting crappy pappy chavvy wankin 25cc scroat machine can be heard for miles, whats the problem, isn't klling some innocent bird flying in the air enough satisfaction, oh no EVERYBODY has to hear the bloody gun go off EVERWHERE for miles, is it to make up for some lacking in the male appendage department, I wonder how many of these macho men/women would be sooooooooo brave if the birds could fire back, answers on a postcard.

 

[PaddyMonty]

[ QUOTE ]
answers on a postcard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dear Ms P
I feel I must respond to your outburst re noise. I think you should take some responsibility for this. If you lot would stop killing all the lovely foxes we wouldn't have to shoot the pesky birds, those nice cute fluffy foxes would have done it for us. On the subjuct of hunts....do you realise the noise they make. The dam dogs yappin their heads off, toffs in red coats blowning horns all the time, the clatter of hooves on the roads, the grinding of metal as you scrape your stirrup down some innocent anti's car. What about the noise of overloaded old lorries struggling up hils to get to the meet? The list just goes on and on.
Add to that the unsociable hours you lot keep exercising your ponies at 6am waking normal people from their sleep. Outragous!!!!!!
So the hunting season has finished, relief? Not so. Now we get the local shows. What joy to sit in ones garden listening to the whinging of kids who didn't win a bit of ribbon, the irrate screaming of the banshee mothers berating the whinging kids or other banshee mothers. The constant clatter of heavy wooden poles hitting the floor and then the wail of sirens. All this goes on for hours and hours and hours.
As for my bloody poxy polluting crappy pappy chavvy wankin 25cc scroat machine, it is now being repaired. I write this from my hospital bed following the placement of several metal plates in both legs. The need came about due to hitting a pile of horse sh&t on a blind bend which sent me skiiding across the road in to , you guessed it, a bloody overloaded horsebox. My screams I can assure you were significantly louder than any shotgun.
In closing I would just like to remind you that as the pesky birds were flushed out with the help of dogs we now have a legal duty to shoot them.
So please, a little tolerance would be nice.

 

[catherinep]

Well said FatArse2! talk to your gamekeeper, get a list of dates, and be safe and sensible....

Pheasant season ends on Friday, so only a bit of rough shooting after that.....

If you are lucky enough to be able to ride over private land, have respect for other land users and their businesses - bear in mind that many estates run their shoots as commercial concerns - so they might have a few ignorent Guns out for the day who don't know about horses, but they fund the maintenance of the land that we then enjoy on horseback....Quid pro quo?

 

[FinellaGlen]

We don't have orgainised shoots on the land immediately next to our hacking track but several farmers shoot pigeons day in day out and you never know where they are going to pop up next. It is their land and their crops which they are protecting so there is nothing to be done about it but it has made me very wary of hacking out at the moment.

My pony spooked at a shot fired right outside our indoor school a couple of weeks back and I am so glad that I wasn't on the road at the time or I fear that she may have slipped and fallen.

 

[Pedantic]

First off I dont hunt, second off if you dont like animals and horse poo dont live in the country and dont keep closing off riding routes and building housing sites or turning them into sustrans riding routes for cyclists which force horses onto the road, third off watch where your riding your chav machine, next time you fly round a blind bend it might be a child on a bike you plough into, fourth off if lorries ect are overloaded report them and get them prosecuted, I would have no sympathy for them, the twats might run into me or mine, as I said twat and gun go together whenever I think about them, arm the birds and the foxs, that would make these so called sports a lot more sporting.

 

[PaddyMonty]

[ QUOTE ]
First off I dont hunt, second off if you dont like animals and horse poo dont live in the country and dont keep closing off riding routes and building housing sites or turning them into sustrans riding routes for cyclists which force horses onto the road, third off watch where your riding your chav machine, next time you fly round a blind bend it might be a child on a bike you plough into, fourth off if lorries ect are overloaded report them and get them prosecuted, I would have no sympathy for them, the twats might run into me or mine, as I said twat and gun go together whenever I think about them, arm the birds and the foxs, that would make these so called sports a lot more sporting.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this reply to my 'answer on a postcard' was in jest then perhaps you might like to make it more obvious.

If it was serious then perhaps a humour transplant might be in order or perhaps a broader view of the world and how it works.

 

[Alibear]

We have to learn to tollerate each other as others have said the shoots happening are the reason for the nice country side and well managed land .
Yes they should have been more considerate but then paying guns often haveno idea about hroses and also have paid fortunes for the day so may well be out for their monies worth and consider it the shoots responsibility organise things so that there are no conflicts with the locals.
THe shoot put up signs and yes probably a good diea to find out who the gamekeeper is and get the dates and locations off him

There's only one countryside and we do have to share it.

 

[pinkcatkin]

Lovely thread, really enjoyed that. There certainly seesm to be alot of sense of humour bypasses on Forum at the moment!

Timefaulter I thought that post was hilarious, bravo!

We are surrounded left right and centre by organised shoots, including one that beats across the field we rent about six times in teh winter and on those days we have to keep our horses in. Used to be at livery where shoot happened every Sunday, the horses soon got used to the noise. I know it is inconvenient but as one poster said, without the shoots things would look quite different in the countryside.

Contact BASC if any queries or complaints about shoots for advice and help.

 

[GinaB]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does the word gun and twat always seem to go together in my head.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you're ignorant

Just because someone shoots doesn't make them a tw*t

We have every right to be there!

 

[PaddyMonty]

[ QUOTE ]

Timefaulter I thought that post was hilarious, bravo!


[/ QUOTE ]
Thankyou. Atleast someone read it in the spirit it was written.
Perhaps I should stop being a happy tolerant bunny and start ranting and moaning more......... Nah

 

[reynold]

and at least you have to have a license to have a gun - no license required to have a horse..........

 

[Judziah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why does the word gun and twat always seem to go together in my head.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you're ignorant

Just because someone shoots doesn't make them a tw*t

We have every right to be there!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said!!

You're all kicking off because you're horse riders, how many other countryside users detest you? How many road users?

The guns were stated as being 25 meters away, so well out of the 50ft quoted. You had warning, if you know your horse dislikes gun shot, like many do, be sensible, use common sense and have some sense of self-preservation...turn around and go somewhere else...
"Oh, but we have every right to go on that bridleway"...Yes, and the Shoot has just as much right to shoot there, I'll reckon.

If that sign had said "Warning, Military training" or "Low flying Helicopters"...and you could hear it in progress, would you still have gone?

YOU are responsible for the welfare and safety of you and your horse, no one else.

As for wearing hi-viz, in bright light that can make you almost invisible. Ironic, isn't it?

If it concerns you, get in contact with the local shoot, work with them to avoid this happening.

 

[suestowford]

[ QUOTE ]
as we drew level with one of the guns and at about 25m distance he swung round 90 degrees to us and fired both barrels. This was followed by some of his friends.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean the guns were pointing towards you? If so I do think that is wrong, if you were on a public path.

 

[Pedantic]

Still no one answers my question that in the year 2008 guns and chav machines have to be so noisy, maybe when the gun goes off with a big bang and splatters some little animal they get a stiffy, gotta be something, answers on a postcard.

Also why do people move into an area where hunting has gone on for generations before they were even born and then moan about clattering hooves and poo on the road, buy a house in the city, you can have as much carbon monoxide to breath in as you like 24/7.

 

[Hersom]

[ QUOTE ]

You're all kicking off because you're horse riders, how many other countryside users detest you? How many road users?

The guns were stated as being 25 meters away, so well out of the 50ft quoted. You had warning, if you know your horse dislikes gun shot, like many do, be sensible, use common sense and have some sense of self-preservation...turn around and go somewhere else...
"Oh, but we have every right to go on that bridleway"...Yes, and the Shoot has just as much right to shoot there, I'll reckon.

If that sign had said "Warning, Military training" or "Low flying Helicopters"...and you could hear it in progress, would you still have gone?

YOU are responsible for the welfare and safety of you and your horse, no one else.

As for wearing hi-viz, in bright light that can make you almost invisible. Ironic, isn't it?

If it concerns you, get in contact with the local shoot, work with them to avoid this happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gosh i have stirred up some rational responses, haven't I

As it happens I have 5 shotguns (including a silenced one), own a large motorcycle, three dogs and have a pilots licence so I am very aware of conflicts. I hate to let the facts get in the way of a good rant but
1. Real hi-viz gets you seen in all conditions. We were seen, made eye contact and were waved at (so we waved back).
2. They were shooting across the bridleway from a low point. I doubt anyone had done any form of risk assessment
3. The first guy to fire (away from us, remember) swung around following a bird and fired almost horizontally across a public road.
4. The warning signs merely announced the closure of the estate grounds (otherwise open to riders who pay a fee) and didn't specify location or purport to close the right of way. We were in the situation before we knew where it was.

We share our access to the countryside with lots of other people and try to take account of their needs. The hi-viz means they see us early when driving. We ride single file to make overtaking easier. We try to avoid footpaths on common land so the dog walkers aren't annoyed. On the other side motorcyclists are the most considerate road users (they know what it's like to fall off?) despite the potential for noise.

Try this one: returning by car from the local clay pigeon range (the one where the policeman shot himself) on a narrow lane I approached an uphill blind bend to be confronted by two loose black labradors and then two riders on horseback came around the bend.

Round the bend is right: no hi-vis, poor visibility and loose dogs. Fortunately I'm at the age when I expect the unexpected. I didn't expect a cheery wave and a thank-you - just as well because I didn't get it

 

[Pedantic]

Policeman shot himself, says it all really, or did he try to top himself due to the stress of trying to arrest people with both hands tied behind his back.

 

[Hersom]

Just checked the excellent BASC website (I'm a member but there's lots of public info available) including the code of good shooting, a guide to risk assessment and a safety code for shooting and horses.

Think I'll print them off and post them to the good ol' boys

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/codeofgoodshootingpractic
http://www.basc.org.uk/content/horsesandshoots

 

[Judziah]

I've added questions/comments in the text! hope it makes sense!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You're all kicking off because you're horse riders, how many other countryside users detest you? How many road users?

The guns were stated as being 25 meters away, so well out of the 50ft quoted. You had warning, if you know your horse dislikes gun shot, like many do, be sensible, use common sense and have some sense of self-preservation...turn around and go somewhere else...
"Oh, but we have every right to go on that bridleway"...Yes, and the Shoot has just as much right to shoot there, I'll reckon.

If that sign had said "Warning, Military training" or "Low flying Helicopters"...and you could hear it in progress, would you still have gone?

YOU are responsible for the welfare and safety of you and your horse, no one else.

As for wearing hi-viz, in bright light that can make you almost invisible. Ironic, isn't it?

If it concerns you, get in contact with the local shoot, work with them to avoid this happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gosh i have stirred up some rational responses, haven't I

As it happens I have 5 shotguns (including a silenced one), own a large motorcycle, three dogs and have a pilots licence so I am very aware of conflicts. I hate to let the facts get in the way of a good rant but
1. Real hi-viz gets you seen in all conditions. Believe me, it doesn't. I've certainly heard of many incidents where the rider wore quality hi-viz that made them invisible against the low morning sun. We were seen, made eye contact and were waved at (so we waved back). With who? the beaters or the guns? Was the wave a sign to stop or continue? You may have read one thing, they may have signalled another (I'm saying the fault could be theirs for poor signalling, not yours!!)
2. They were shooting across the bridleway from a low point. I doubt anyone had done any form of risk assessment Plain stupid on the part of the organiser then...or the guns were just getting carried away. Either way, they were wrong
3. The first guy to fire (away from us, remember) swung around following a bird and fired almost horizontally across a public road. As above, irresponsible Gun
4. The warning signs merely announced the closure of the estate grounds (otherwise open to riders who pay a fee) and didn't specify location or purport to close the right of way. We were in the situation before we knew where it was. All well and good but if you had any concerns, you said yourself the horse was already spooked, but in control...why not just turn back?

We share our access to the countryside with lots of other people and try to take account of their needs. The hi-viz means they see us early when driving. We ride single file to make overtaking easier. We try to avoid footpaths on common land so the dog walkers aren't annoyed. On the other side motorcyclists are the most considerate road users (they know what it's like to fall off?) despite the potential for noise.

Try this one: returning by car from the local clay pigeon range (the one where the policeman shot himself) on a narrow lane I approached an uphill blind bend to be confronted by two loose black labradors and then two riders on horseback came around the bend.

Round the bend is right: no hi-vis, poor visibility and loose dogs. Fortunately I'm at the age when I expect the unexpected. I didn't expect a cheery wave and a thank-you - just as well because I didn't get it

The remark about other countryside users and road users was not aimed specifically at you! It was all horse riders in general! For the most part, motorists hate us using 'their roads'...cyclists rarely think they need to slow to pass...and dog walkers seem to think we're fair game for their pooch to harass!!



[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Still no one answers my question that in the year 2008 guns and chav machines have to be so noisy, maybe when the gun goes off with a big bang and splatters some little animal they get a stiffy, gotta be something, answers on a postcard.

Also why do people move into an area where hunting has gone on for generations before they were even born and then moan about clattering hooves and poo on the road, buy a house in the city, you can have as much carbon monoxide to breath in as you like 24/7.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do so many people have to play loud music? why do so many people get excited over colourful explosives each November? Why do so many people drive 4x4 for commuting? Why must super cars be so loud?

It annoys you, millions of others aren't bothered by it.

The truth, well, I'd assume partly it was due to cost. Some old quad that roars like a prehistoric beast is probably going to be cheaper than the brand new model that whispers through the Valley...and from experience, the dinosaur is probably far more reliable too.

The most significant factor? A warning.

If you can't hear a shoot accurately, how can you avoid one? It's all well and good for those who stick to rights of way, but there are many many people who believe they have the right to roam on any land they see...and could potentially wind up in the middle of a silent shoot.

My father has just retired as the local Game keeper, I just asked him, from his POV, he believes it means fair game. The birds get a warning as to where the guns are and can try to avoid them by out-smarting the beaters.

Take your pick.

By the way...some may ask what perverted pleasure you get out of making an animal your slave, making it work in unnatural ways whilst you sit on it's back like someone important. That's not my opinion but a potential view on horse riding.

You don't understand them, they don't understand you...don't start reducing it to people getting 'stiffy's over the activity they enjoy.

 

[ladyt25]

Oh, i enjoyed reading this thread - lots of opinions! Let us all live in peace and let teh fluffy foxes and birds be free!!!

btw I am a vegetarian, don't support foxhunting and don't like the shooting of birds - pheasant etc - that can barely even fly to escape! However, am aware nothing I can do will change the world and in reality i guess more are killed on the roads every day. Plus, thankfully we don't live or ride near any big shoots and my horse isn't particularly afraid. I think i shall stop my occasional moaning now whe i say i am bored of the hacking we have (which is a lot really!)