Should a farrier hit a horse?

Surely though if your horse is being rude (not scared or fidgety) or even being so badly behaved to endanger your farrier it is up to YOU to reprimand it?

The same way if you took your child to the dentist or doctor- if it started to play up it is YOUR responsibility to reprimand not the professionals.

The farrier is there to trim the horse not educate it and if they feel it is being a plank for some reason it is professional to speak to the owner about it, not just wallop them.

Also it could be even more dangerous with some horses to give them a smack as some will lash out- surely the owner is best placed to know which horses need/respond to a smack- not the person who sees the horse for an hour every 5 weeks.

Why is it people think it is the 'norm' for a farrier to smack a horse but I bet people would not expect the saddler/dentist/vet to do so?
 
tallyho! said:
However, I do think the education should be calm and not involve violence and this has nothing to do with "new age" - it's mentioned in the oldest books known and the "new age" is actually the german methods of harsh treatments thought of as "old age" which are so revered today.
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Funnily enough I've been reading Jaime Jacksons Horse Owners Guide to Natural hoofcare again over the past few days and came across this quote from Xenophon (written approximately 2,300 years ago!)
"But there is one rule to be inviolably observed above all others; that is, never approach a horse in a passion, for anger never thinks of consequences and forces us to do what we afterwards repent"
 
Why should a farrier be teaching your horse to behave. A farrier is there to do a job it is your job as the owner to make sure your horse stands for the farrier and teach him/her basic manners.

Don't say its not possible either, Koko was awful with the farrier, he would rear kick out at him and throw his weight at him. We solved this so just before he died he just stood there.

Time and patience goes a long way and if you haven't got it you shouldn't own horses.
 
Not read whole of this thread so cant comment on exact situation, but in a word no, a farrier shouldnt be hitting a horse. How does he expect it to stand still next time he shoes your horse.
 
When I first had my cob,knowone could pick up his back feet,had 2 different farriers out,they both wolloped him in the stomach,I was upset about it and didnt bother with them ever again.I now have a brilliant farrier who my horse trusts and has no problems with him.
I dont think farriers should hit your horse,it makes the horse worse.
 
vet slapped my very well mannered mare once across the muzzle, I felt it was rather nasty and that he did it because he lacked confidence himself and had no idea how to approach a horse, I did not say anything because I was in shock but never used him again. My farriers are brill and if the horses messed around then I would not mind if they needed to be reprimanded with a small dig or pull on the halter type thing.
 
It depends what the horse was dong and what type. An example, my farrier i trust implicitly, he was shoeing YO shire for a show and a experienced horse woman was holding her, she was used to having feet done and horse decided she wanted to kick the farrier luckily just missed his head, so the farrier smacked her on one side with his rasp and the woman holding kicked her on the other side. i dont condone hitting horses but you cant have a shire kick out at you and it not got hit they are tough so it isnt like hitting a skinny TB who was scared she was just being naughty. learnt her lesson and now shoes perfectly.
If the horse was endangering the farrier and owner/handler didnt do anything then i think it his the farriers right to do it or just stop doing that horse.
 
ruth83 said:
Maybe I'm coming at this from a different angle, working on a large yard with a number of horses including bolshy youngsters but I think YES a farrier should be allowed to hit a horse if necessary.
A severe beating because the farrier has had a bad day and the horse is getting a little restless is not acceptable but the horse should have a reminder to behave itself. A bolshy or naughty horse should be told to sort itself out and I wouldn't expect the farrier to come and find me to rprimand a horse.
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Absolutely agree, if punishment is to be meted out it should be immediate and not wait for me.
 
I don't know why I keep posting.. we should all just agree to disagree...

I wonder how many owners have sought to find out why a horse is bolshy/naughty with a farrier/vet/dentist and then tried to sort it out.

After witnessing a finger being trapped and trodden between shoe and hoof of a poor farrier after mare behaved wildly, it was sorted out by YO and farrier together without a heavy hand laid upon her. All it took was a couple of days of their time (farrier bandaged by this point) to bring a sweaty trembling horse poised to kick at any moment to calmness to stand while he drove the nails in two days later. She was scared as she was previously hit by a number of farriers and owners, and then when it got worse she was twitched, sedated you name it (hence passing hands many times in her life). Of course this is just ONE example - although I will put money on it that her case is part of a sad statistic.

I guess people who support hitting just don't have the time to reassure a horse anymore.
 
tallyho! said:
I don't know why I keep posting.. we should all just agree to disagree...

I wonder how many owners have sought to find out why a horse is bolshy/naughty with a farrier/vet/dentist and then tried to sort it out.

After witnessing a finger being trapped and trodden between shoe and hoof of a poor farrier after mare behaved wildly, it was sorted out by YO and farrier together without a heavy hand laid upon her. All it took was a couple of days of their time (farrier bandaged by this point) to bring a sweaty trembling horse poised to kick at any moment to calmness to stand while he drove the nails in two days later. She was scared as she was previously hit by a number of farriers and owners, and then when it got worse she was twitched, sedated you name it (hence passing hands many times in her life). Of course this is just ONE example - although I will put money on it that her case is part of a sad statistic.

I guess people who support hitting just don't have the time to reassure a horse anymore.
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This is so true! This is what we did with our horse, it annoys me when people just expect the farrier to deal with the horse but that is not their job!
 
We had an idiot who came and beat the life out of an already terribly nervous LR pony. The pony ended up being so terrified that he broke free and took off a mile down the road! Needless to say, the pony was a nervous wreck with the farrier after that, took a lot of coaxing.
Your farrier shouldn't hit your horse, however if he/she was really being naughty perhaps a little reminder not to be silly wouldnt do any harm as long as you gave him permission to do so.
 
No I don't think Farriers should hit , where I use to work the farrier would beat A horse ,
My fArrier has never raised one finger to my horses all being young they have there moments , the difference is he goes round it. Different way to solve the situation
Not beat And make it 100 % worse
A lot of people say yes it mAkes them respect them And start behaving
To me this is making another problem Rise from the horse being frightened by the farrier
All Farriers now the risk I'n hAndling horses , if they Are
Worried about a Horse that's a possible risk maybe , refusal or insist I'n horse been serdated not tAke Appon there selfs to reprimand a horse
 
There is a saying about teachers at your school.

What kind of teacher to you prefer to be taught by?

One that shouts at you and threatens you with a cane across your bottom?

Or one that inspires you to behave and leads by example?

Well, the first one would probably jolly well scare you into behaving, but you would become rather resentful after time!.

It truly is up to the owner to educate the horse to behave itself whilst being shod/trimmed, but it doent take much to undo all your hard work when faced with a farrier with no horse sense who has also forgetten that horses have very good memories.
 
One of my ponies was being shod on a very hot afternoon, lots of flies and horse-flies buzzing around. I had used lots of fly repellent, as he was quite agitated with them. My farrier knew him, knew he could be nervous, in fact had been the first to ever shoe him, so I was horrified when he set about him in the ribs and stomach with his rasp ! :mad: Yes, the pony was fidgeting, but with reason, horse-flies hurt !! I was really cross, told the chap not to hit the pony. He threw his gear in his truck and left me, with a pony with hind shoes removed, one front nailed on but the nails not nipped off and finished, and one front shoe with two nails in !!! :eek: Needless to say I changed my farrier.
 
I don't advocate beating or thrashing, and I agree that the owner should try as far as possible to present a mannerly horse to the farrier. but all those who say no, never, my horses are so well trained etc, do your horses really never, ever step out of line? Professional riders, who surely spend hours and hours training will give a horse a wallop for stopping. Same as spend hours handling your horse there could still be a time when they feel less than co-operative with you or your farrier.
 
Some times a youngster needs to know their spaces. My farrier is very good, as he's put up with a mare that has tried to kick his head in. I muzzled her as she also tried to take chunks out of him. This is a mare I bought out of pity,several years ago. My farrier over the years has been very patience,but my two youngsters have tried taking the mick with him and he has sorted them out, and that's how it should be. If your horse napps when shoeing it should be sorted out and you shouldn't expect your farrier to sort your horse out for you. You get what they call the teens, when they get bolshy, that is the time to sort them out, or in other words teach them manners that they haven't been taugtht
 
I don't think it is the job of the farrier to hit your hors, he is there to shoe him and not discipline him surely that is the job of the handler to ensure that he is well behaved? (the horse that is!) My horse was a problem with my last farrier - he hated the hot shoeing - but since I have the farrier I have now he has no problem with the smoke at all. My farrier doesn't need to hit the horse and as far as I know he never has - he commands discipline without ever having to raise his voice or fist. Years ago I used to have a farrier who wouldn't think twice about thumping my horse in the ribs with a rasp when he so much as moved a muscle - he soon stopped it when I threatened to hit him in the ribs with the rasp to see how he would like it. :p
 
my last farrier and i fell out over a similar issue; i'd not long had the horse and hadnt been with this farrier very long but he felt the need to jab my boy in the ribs with a rasp, at which point i politely asked him to refrain from doing so again. My horse was not misbehaving as such, but he does shift his weight whilst being shod.

My new farrier who ive had for more than a year has never ever treated my horse like this, even when he was at his worst when he first started shoeing him; he simply talks welsh at him and deals with him in a calm and encouraging manner. come to think of it i cant think of a time he has ever raised his voice at a horse on our yard. I spose that could be the difference between a 20-something fresh farrier (my current) to the overweight rude 50 yo i briefly used to have; patience is definitely a virtue, he'd rather take his time and do a good job.

i agree that horses need to learn to stand up for the farrier/vet/dentist, but its up to the owner to instill this into their horse and not for the farrier to be disciplinarian.
 
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