Should a vet use unlicensed medicine on horse without my consent?

Are you referring to the "cascade"? Really, the Vet should get your consent but if time was an issue then I think he's within guidlines to go ahead. Did it cause any problems?
 
sorry meant to say time wasnt really a problem... it wasnt life or death. He had an operation, and then three days after operation (whilst still at vets) he was given medicine.
 
wench said:
sorry meant to say time wasnt really a problem... it wasnt life or death. He had an operation, and then three days after operation (whilst still at vets) he was given medicine.
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What were the reasons for giving the horse the medication?

Is it widely use in horses, despite not yet being licsenced??
 
poultry antibiotics (baytrill), from a quick search on here, does appear to be used. I wouldnt normally have a problem with it, however not very happy with the vets overall performance and attiude, so just investigating points I am not impressed with
 
Sometimes they are not licenced for horses, but are for other animals or even humans.
My horse had suspected liver fluke, so the vet dosed him with wormer licenced for cattle and sheep, but not horses. He said it wouldn't do him any harm but should kill the liver fluke, which it did (this was quite a long time ago). Sometimes vets will use an unlicenced medicine, it doesn't mean that it hasn't been tested. I think it is to do with the costs of testing on the different species.
 
sorry have no idea what has happened but is Baytrill not for horses??

My previous horse was given this orally after having a secondary infection after having his kidney taken out, I used to have to syringe it into his mouth and it was the only oral antibiotics that would work?? It was very, very expensive if I remember rightly!
 
Baytril is routinely used in many species on and off label and your Vet would have used his knowledge of the drug and the animal and decided that this would be useful- different antibiotics have different actions and are used on different bacteria. A lab report on a culture usually gives a list of which antibiotics will work and then it will be up to the people involved to decide. Would you have declined the treatment if asked?
 
Baytrill is not licensed for use in horses and this should have been may clear to you by your vet however it is widely used throughout the equine world. When I used it on my horse my vet sat down and explained it all to me first. I would have thought this practice should be standard in unlicensed drug use.
 
I was never told that it was unlicensed and this was about 10 years ago, however I trusted my vet to treat my horse and I was happy to use the drugs given to me by him. My insurance company didn't query the useage on my horse either. I am however shocked to read this as I had no idea that it wasn't licensed but, tbh I am not bothered as it cleared up his horrific infection.
 
If you look at previous post - I did say it wouldnt normally bother me. However vets have done one or two other things I am not very happy with, and this just tops it off.
 
To be honest, there is a huge amount of off-label drug use in Veterinary medicine as there is comparatively few drugs that are manufactured and licensed specifically for equine use. Baytril is a very standard antibiotic which is used widely. I actually wouldn't expect my vet to specifically explain that it was unlicensed unless it was an experimental treatment.

In fact, Monty was given baytril when he was poorly and my vet didn't explain that it was off-label, however this really doesn't bother me as it is as tested in the field as the next medicine and I trust my vet's judgement.
 
My experience has been that doctors can prescribe off-label use of medicines without letting you know that the medicine has not been licensed for the particular use, so I don't see why vets would be held to a higher standard.

There might be something about it in the vet's code of practice?
 
Halfstep said:
A lot of fairly standard medicines used by vets are off label because of the difficulties of funding full testing on all animal groups.
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Agree absolutely.

Few horse wormers are licensed for donkeys, but are perfectly safe and regularly used on them. Same thing.
 
My horse has medicine that is only licenced for dogs and humans. My vet explained that if I wanted to use it it was at my own risk (back when we started with it, hardly any horses had been treated with it I believe) but the other option was pts so it wasn't a hard decision to make. I didn't know Baytrill wasn't licenced for neds, they certainly use it routinely in the US.
 
Whether or not something is licensed has far more to do with whether or not the drug company can be bothered to fund the process than whether or not the drug is tested and safe in a given species.

Beytril is a widely used veterinary antibiotic, and I think is one of very few that can be given orally in horses. Different antibiotics cover different types of bacteria (aerobic, anaerobic, gram negative and gram positive are 4 I've picked up from over dinner shop talk!) so Baytril will have been selected as it covers the correct type (and there is nothing licensed that does through the cascade). I have a feeling that Metacam is not licensed in cats, but is obviously widely used!

More absurd is that one brand of sedation is licensed for horses going for meat with a very short withdrawal period while another, chemically identical (to the point of being made in the same factory out of the same raw ingredients) is not licensed in horses unless their passport has been signed off for human consumption! One company could be bothered to pay for the meat withdrawal testing, the other couldn't
 
Unlicensed drugs and off-label drugs are widely used both in vetinary and in human medicine. You should have been told however, even if it is used in common practice, in much the same way a doctor must tell a patient if using a medicine outside the licence or an unlicenced medicine.
The vet (or doctor for that matter) takes responsibility for the consequences of using medicines in this way so if there is a problem they are liable, not the manufacturer/ drugs company. But whether or not the knowledge would have affected your decision to treat is a personal one and there are justified arguements for and against!
 
Metacam is licensed for use in cats, both in the injectable and oral preparations.

It is also licensed for horses, again injectable and oral.

Baytril is not licensed for horses, but is widely used particularly in referral practices. It is licensed for cattle, pigs and small animals in various formulations. The chicken solution is used orally as this provides a practical way for owners to dose their horse themselves, without the necessity of daily intravenous injections. It is prescribed using the Cascade, which allows us to use drugs licensed for use in another species if a suitable drug is not available for the species we are treating.

A lot of licensing issues are down to cost - it is simply not profitable for the drug companies to pursue full licensing in every target species.

For instance, there are no painkillers or sedatives licensed for sheep in the UK, and very few antibiotics. So we frequently use cattle drugs on the cascade, as quite often sheep require pain releif.
 
Before you take this up with your vet are you absolutely sure you didn't consent?

I'm not being funny, honestly, but my girl went into vet hospital this morning for a procedure, and I was handed a consent form to sign- I think they were a bit surprised when I actually read it before I signed it, aparantely very few people do- and it said clearly in the small print that I was consenting to her being given unlicensed drugs if they were suitable and necessary....

Obviously this may not have been on the consent form you signed, and I'm not 'having a go' in any way or form, but just thought I'd mention it to save you taking it up with them if you DID actually consent unknowingly!! ;)
 
wench said:
Liath, I didnt sign any form at all!
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But presumably you signed a form for hospitalisation?! If you didn't then this is a little off. I only work in a small animal surgery, however all clients are required to sign a hospitalisation form which will include the administration of drugs and all aspects of medical care that the attending vet deems necessary whilst the animal is in our care.
 
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