lhotse
Well-Known Member
How can you desensitize a horse to a fire engine with sirens blazing and blue lights flashing, I mean, it's not something you can borrow easily!!
Should emergency services slow down?
- Thread starter horseluver4eva
- Start date
little_critter
Well-Known Member
Next time someone falls off at the yard call the ambulance and get all the horses together for a desensitising session! (I'm joking of course)
I think the should slow down and turn off lights and sirens. I mean really how much time will they actually waste going from say 50mph to 30mph for about 10-20 meters? Probably about 5 seconds.
I think the should slow down and turn off lights and sirens. I mean really how much time will they actually waste going from say 50mph to 30mph for about 10-20 meters? Probably about 5 seconds.
Sussexbythesea
Well-Known Member
Of course they should slow down and pass safely just as they don't have the right to drive other cars off the road into ditches.
You can't sacrifice one person on the way to save another and emergency drivers including ambulance drivers have been prosecuted for causing accidents on the way to a call.
You can't sacrifice one person on the way to save another and emergency drivers including ambulance drivers have been prosecuted for causing accidents on the way to a call.
indie999
Well-Known Member
ok playing devils advocate
my baby has stopped breathing....................sorry we are late had to slow down for horse riders.
or man with a gun.............sorry we had to slow down for a horse rider
Seconds can count in an emergency so am kinda siding with them. Even though I have been cross myself and thinking I was a gonna with nowhere to go and move over.
But I did ask police myself and the response I got shouldnt be on the road. I asked well couldnt they have turned off the sirens. NO. To alert road users they are coming along, move out the way.
my baby has stopped breathing....................sorry we are late had to slow down for horse riders.
or man with a gun.............sorry we had to slow down for a horse rider
Seconds can count in an emergency so am kinda siding with them. Even though I have been cross myself and thinking I was a gonna with nowhere to go and move over.
But I did ask police myself and the response I got shouldnt be on the road. I asked well couldnt they have turned off the sirens. NO. To alert road users they are coming along, move out the way.
Elf On A Shelf
...
But then if they went/tried to go roaring past and caused another accident then they would have to stop to deal with it and thus another reaponse unit would have to be sent so that could add another 10-15mins onto the original emergency, possibly more because they would have to go along a different route because your currently lying splattered across the original one. Which could all have been avoided with common sense and an extra 5-7seconds.
Kat
Well-Known Member
You can desensitise your horse to emergency vehicles. Emergency services need to be familiar with horses for when they are called to emergencies involving horses. Derbyshire fire and rescue have a model horse that they can practice on but in recognition of the fact that this isn't the same they came to our yard to learn to handle real horses. They arrived in the fire engines (in case they had to go to a shout) and they led the horses past as part of the exercise. They learned how to lead horses, put on and remove head collars rugs tack etc and met a pony in full driving gear. It was a really good experience for the horses and the firefighters. In fact it was so successful the police are considering doing the same.
ladyt25
Well-Known Member
Yes, seconds can count BUT if they take a few seconds to slow down, and turn off their sirens at least (I am not sure horses would really notice the lights so much in the daylight?) this could save them precious minutes by not causing another accident. This happened to my mum a few years back when an ambulance was heading up a road towards her. It was up a hill and several bends but my mum was on the flat bit at the top. However, it's sometimes difficult sometimes to work out where the noise is coming from on these roads - due to the hills etc. The horse took fright, spun and took off down the road (back home) with ambulance following them by now. This resulted in my mum falling off and becoming the patient and they had to call another ambulance for the initial call!
In all honesty on the road they were on - no cars at the time, they wouldn't have needed to have had the sirens on then. It's the noise generally that spooks the horses i think as it is so loud for them.
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
We meet emergency vehicles on the main road quite a bit. It's a wide road so they don't need to pass close. Nearly always they turn off the sirens but don't slow down much, if at all. My old dobbin doesn't care (if he did I wouldn't be on the main road).
touchstone
Well-Known Member
When driving an emergency vehicle I believe a driver can still be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention as others have said. I am sure that they are trained to turn off lights and sirens when passing horses and to do so safely; far better that they arrive at their destination albeit a few seconds later than not arrive at all.
All emergency vehicles that have passed me have turned sirens off and if not slowing down at least have given a very wide berth, (wide A road.)
Emergency vehicles get held up all the time, by stationary traffic, roadworks etc, so I'm sure a few seconds more for safety's sake will be expected by them.
All emergency vehicles that have passed me have turned sirens off and if not slowing down at least have given a very wide berth, (wide A road.)
Emergency vehicles get held up all the time, by stationary traffic, roadworks etc, so I'm sure a few seconds more for safety's sake will be expected by them.
Elsiecat
Well-Known Member
Slow down. If they cause an accident on the way to an emergency then they'll have to stop at the new accident, meaning a new emergency vehicle will have to be dispatched for the original emergency - taking much longer.
PlodCob
Active Member
If you can get out of the way onto a verge so as not to obstruct them then do so. I'd do the same in the car, get out of the way and let them through!
If they have the sirens on you can hear them well beforehand, more so than when in a car.
Police and ambulances we've met out hacking have all silenced the sirens and blues on sight of us, most slow, all passed wide and all got a nod of thanks.
If they have the sirens on you can hear them well beforehand, more so than when in a car.
Police and ambulances we've met out hacking have all silenced the sirens and blues on sight of us, most slow, all passed wide and all got a nod of thanks.
el_Snowflakes
Well-Known Member
It's their job to get to the scene as quickly as safely possible. So yes they should pass horses on road safely. No point in causing an accident whilst attending an emergency!......if there were young kids playing in a culdusac on the road do you think they would speed past? No of course they wouldn't (or shouldn't!)
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Personally I think all emergency vehicles should turn off their sirens/lights and slow down to pass a horse. Surely they should, or else they risk causing a whole other accident?! I've only ever been passed by a fire engine who turned its lights etc. off and did slow down thankfully.
*hic*
village idiot :D
That's just given me a business idea
My horses used to be kept by a fast trainline and are train bombproof, now we have moved and there are probably 50 police / ambulance / fire vehicles past every day, mostly on blues and twos Perhaps I need to offer emergency vehicle proofing livery!Mind you, we also have a river with many canal boats travelling at 4 mph and the horses are all spooked by them
HBM1
Well-Known Member
It is a bit difficult to speed in a cul de sac to the same type on an open road though. How do you all think city and large town riders manage?
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
I agree they should turn off lights and sirens but I don't think slowing down is a brilliant idea.
I would have been very upset had the ambulance called for me taken longer. As it was, they didn't prioritise me cos no chest pain was mentioned! Half my leg hanging out didn't matter!
I would have been very upset had the ambulance called for me taken longer. As it was, they didn't prioritise me cos no chest pain was mentioned! Half my leg hanging out didn't matter!
lachlanandmarcus
Well-Known Member
Yes they are supposed to pass at a safe speed but also absolutely they are supposed to turn off the sirens and light.
We are talking here about a few seconds delay in order to prevent another fatal accident occurring, it is not a delay that will kill a patient inside the ambulance and they will be much more delayed by causing an accident on the way.
Just for information, although related to cows, here is what happens when fire engine drivers do NOT follow that approach.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...th-farmer-trampled-spooked-herd-100-cows.html
We are talking here about a few seconds delay in order to prevent another fatal accident occurring, it is not a delay that will kill a patient inside the ambulance and they will be much more delayed by causing an accident on the way.
Just for information, although related to cows, here is what happens when fire engine drivers do NOT follow that approach.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...th-farmer-trampled-spooked-herd-100-cows.html
HBM1
Well-Known Member
I am just trying to play devil's advocate a little, but where does it stop? If you have an accident and need the Air Ambulance, that comes down to land - yet there are other riders in the area, do you want them to land where you need them as you are unconscious and in dire need, or do you want them to divert a away a little as a horse may be spooked.
I think people's priorities change depending upon which side of the service they are on.
Yes, if safe, turn off sirens, but don't forget sirens are there for a reason too - what if they turn them off for a horse, but a car doesn't hear them and pulls out of a turning around a country bend, not knowing they are coming.
I do find that sometimes horse riders expect a great deal. I have even known some moan about a hot air balloon going over as the noise of the gas being released scared their horses and asking how they can complain to their local councillor. Are people supposed to stop and think about horses all the time? (Though why anyone would want to go in a hot air balloon is beyond me anyway).
I think people's priorities change depending upon which side of the service they are on.
Yes, if safe, turn off sirens, but don't forget sirens are there for a reason too - what if they turn them off for a horse, but a car doesn't hear them and pulls out of a turning around a country bend, not knowing they are coming.
I do find that sometimes horse riders expect a great deal. I have even known some moan about a hot air balloon going over as the noise of the gas being released scared their horses and asking how they can complain to their local councillor. Are people supposed to stop and think about horses all the time? (Though why anyone would want to go in a hot air balloon is beyond me anyway).
AmyMay
Situation normal
Please make a formal complaint OP.
Jenni_
Well-Known Member
I actually ecountered this last night. Ambulance in full blues and twos came roaring past. Ok she dealt with that- But the fire engine with more noise than just the blues and twos also roared past and she lost the plot.
My wonder would be - if I was hurt because of that would they stop to help me? Surely slowing down for a few seconds is sensible?
My wonder would be - if I was hurt because of that would they stop to help me? Surely slowing down for a few seconds is sensible?
touchstone
Well-Known Member
In the case of a helicopter landing, the road in use would be closed anyway and if in an open area there would be ample opportunity for the riders to move away from the landing area.
Sirens are switched off for a matter of seconds, not enough to make it a danger to other traffic, but enough to get past a horse and rider - who would have no escape if on a busy road and risk serious injury.
It's common sense really, not a major issue about riders expecting special treatment. I believe that it will be part of the training how to pass horses safely, so if that is how they are taught there is no reason for them not to do it.
My daughter had to be transfered to a hospital 50 miles away in an emergency ambulance. It was traffic stopping in daft places such as right beside a traffic island and pedestrians sauntering across crossings that caused hold ups; but that is to be expected and a few seconds really isn't going to make that much difference to any outcome.
mutley75
Well-Known Member
Just out of interest how many people would wave an emergency vehicle on if they know they are on a horse that won't bat an eyelid? (By waving on I mean tell them it's ok to pass at speed)
touchstone
Well-Known Member
In my experience they still pass pretty quickly anyway, I usually encounter them on a 50 mph road, I don't think I'd have time to wave them on to be honest!
wench
Well-Known Member
Interesting story. I have a friend who is from the same village as me, but is a fireman in London. I know they went to one of those petting farm things they have down there and some of the other firemen didnt know the difference between a calf and a lamb. I'm guessing the fireman in this story didnt have the first idea about animals either.
Tayto
Well-Known Member
Fransurrey
Well-Known Member
I don't know who you dealt with, but that's simply not true. All the emergency services are subject to exactly the same rules and regulations as the rest of us, with the exception that they are allowed to speed or run red lights *where it is safe to do so*. That includes negotiating blind bends, crossings, country roads etc. From memory (my ex did the Category 5 or whatever it is - meaning you can drive the police car but not use sirens) there was no specific criteria for horses, but given they are mentioned in the usual rules and regulations (Highway Code!), then they DO have to slow down and go wide if necessary.
I think I've only encountered police and ambulance on emergency response and both have acted sensibly.
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
Yep, I do. Depends how much room you have but riders have the same responsibility to get out of the way as motorists.
If its possible, I generally get my horse quickly into a drive, side road or pavement the smile and wave an acknowledgement that we're quite happy for them to pass. I don't wave them on, but indicate that were fine for them to pass at speed.
Its one of the reasons why training your horse to be bombproof is important. A good horse will be more likely to deal with unfamiliar events even when its has never experienced the hazard before.
Ambulances and fire engines are great, they've turned the sirens off and slowed down even though we don't need them to. Police cars tend to be a bit of a liability because they tend to drive more wrecklessly. I've nearly had my car wiped off the road a couple of times by the police, so I always treat them like very unpredictable drivers.
Some fire crews do horse awareness and handling training if they cover a horsey area, just like rural stations are specifically educated in dealing with straw fires.
If an ambulance/fire engine causes or passes an accident, they will stop and deal with that. Another crew will e sent to the original shout.
An obstacle on the road, -a tractor, horse, traffic jam etc, are all delays that specially trained drivers deal with when responding to an emergency and they slow down.
However, lost seconds can mean the difference between life and death, so riders should know how to respond, and ensure they have enough control to deal with unusual events.
For the OP, rather than complain, speak to the station officer and explain what happened so he can ensure the drivers don't do it again. They do take incidents like that very seriously. Better still, ring up and visit in person and have a tour.
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
How utterly tragic. Fire crews spend time driving around their area to check for obstructions so that they have prior knowledge to avoid a certain route at busy times if possible.
If the crew had known the farm's routine for bringing the herd in, they might have been able to avoid the road that day. Terribly sad.
indie999
Well-Known Member
My information was from a traffic police officer Class one and they were adament that I was wrong!In fact once I spoke to them I could see their point of view. I had no where to go and I knew my old boy was sound as a pound and debated as to trot on to get to a safer spot or just not alarm him. So I decided to keep going at the current pace and fortunately I was more alarmed of the consequences. But he acted like nothing was wrong at all. In my mind I was mince meat. However I knew he really was 110% traffic and worth his weight in gold(If anyone knows of a similar one I am interested cos the old type hacker (not me) are hard to find. I think the moral in the tale is to bombproof. All horses I rode 30+ years ago out of 20 horses only one was not happy with lorries and buses. Otherwise they knew their job. I do appreciate roads are busier and even farm machinery is bigger if not juggernaut. Whats the answer!?! And sirens mine could hear a pin drop from a mile off!
hnmisty
Well-Known Member
Just wondering whether there is any correlation between emergency services turning their siren off to pass a horse, and the rider wearing hi viz?
I only saw a rider from about 40m away when I was travelling at 30mph as she was on a dark horse, leading another dark horse, and wearing a very dull, woody coloured jacket. On this occasion, I slowed down and told her she should wear hi viz. But that's another story.
Obviously, the brighter you are, the earlier you are seen...and the faster someone is travelling, the further they travel before they can react. So if say a police car is hurtling along at 60, and the rider is hard to spot, is there the possibility that they don't really notice them before they are passing them? Esp if they have just come round a bend etc. Obviously, I'm not suggesting that emergency services drivers are not observant!
I see this from two points of view...if I was on my horse, I'd be desperately thinking "please turn the siren off and slow down, please!". However, if I was in the back of the ambulance, I'd be thinking "just get me to the bloody hospital!".
I remember trying to cross the road at home on one of my ponies as an ambulance (just driving along normally) came along. Pony decided to be an idiot, and the ambulance slowed right down and waited for me to cross the road...think they were waiting to see if they'd be needing to scrape me off the road! I was rather embarrassed...
I only saw a rider from about 40m away when I was travelling at 30mph as she was on a dark horse, leading another dark horse, and wearing a very dull, woody coloured jacket. On this occasion, I slowed down and told her she should wear hi viz. But that's another story.
Obviously, the brighter you are, the earlier you are seen...and the faster someone is travelling, the further they travel before they can react. So if say a police car is hurtling along at 60, and the rider is hard to spot, is there the possibility that they don't really notice them before they are passing them? Esp if they have just come round a bend etc. Obviously, I'm not suggesting that emergency services drivers are not observant!
I see this from two points of view...if I was on my horse, I'd be desperately thinking "please turn the siren off and slow down, please!". However, if I was in the back of the ambulance, I'd be thinking "just get me to the bloody hospital!".
I remember trying to cross the road at home on one of my ponies as an ambulance (just driving along normally) came along. Pony decided to be an idiot, and the ambulance slowed right down and waited for me to cross the road...think they were waiting to see if they'd be needing to scrape me off the road! I was rather embarrassed...