Should eventing adopt BD - double marks for collectives?

[lifeslemons]

I was told yesterday by a ground jury member that BE is considering bringing their dressage scoring in line with BD, in order to create more harmony between the competitions.

She had a mixed response do this news, as did I, hence why I am curious to hear what others may think. With the emphasis on first phase scores greater than ever before, and now dictating the final result almost entirely (esp at the lower levels) is this going to give the dressage even more importance? Will it create a greater disparity between the better moving horses and professional riders, who often score better for paces and rider? Will it further move the sport away from the days where a gutsy cross country round could win the competition?

On the other hand, I feel that perhaps it wouldn't necessarily exclude those, such as myself, who struggle when surrounded by white boards, since looking at the overal picture *can* ignore some more minor but often costly errors, and allow extra marks to be picked up.

THOUGHTS?! (I think this is a pretty important subject, since scores are so close anyway that this could have a big impact.)

 

[carthorse]

I think they should stay as they are .I can remember the days when you got 10 penalies for a stop showjumping [ think that is right] and the dressage wasn't so important but now dressage is sooooo important that the good jumpers don't always get to go up the ladder

 

[ajf]

I also think they should stay as they are and that cross-country time penatilies (eg 1pen per 1sec over, would also make scoring alot easier!) should be increased so that we see fitter horses.

 

[lifeslemons]

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I also think they should stay as they are and that cross-country time penatilies (eg 1pen per 1sec over, would also make scoring alot easier!) should be increased so that we see fitter horses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeh I agree with you in principle, and this was talked about but later disregarded because people felt it would encourage people going too fast/dangerous riding on horses that were no fitter. In '99 they actually did it, and scraped it mainly because scores were left so wide open the xc actually become too influiential!

My feeling with the dressage is that it works well for eventing at the moment... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think it would exert a big influience and shift the balance of the phases to an even greater incorrect degree, all for the sake of British Dressage

 

[i_should_be_working]

Agree totally - leave it as it is. I don't have the budget to buy an expensive flashy moving horse and aim to do a nice accurate test (not always nice though as he gets very fit). I have to ride before work and juggle flat work/jumping and fitness work and don't have the time or money to do big time dressage training like the pros do

 

[H-J]

[ QUOTE ]
I think they should stay as they are .I can remember the days when you got 10 penalies for a stop showjumping [ think that is right] and the dressage wasn't so important but now dressage is sooooo important that the good jumpers don't always get to go up the ladder

[/ QUOTE ]

But eventing isnt just about "good" jumpers, its about the 3 phases all on one day showing the horse can do all 3 well.

Why shouldnt the horses that get a great score in the dressage and go double clear be the winners?

I truly do agree that most eventers to not work hard enough on their flatwork, some never even going and doing "just" dressage. Dressage/flatwork is in every phase and helps alot with every phase and its something eventers should be taking more seriously I think

 

[carthorse]

Well we do loads of dressage, but it is about being an allrounder and I have recently seen horse get such good dressage scores they can have 2 show jumps down and still win.If they increase the influence of dressage then they could have 4 fences down and still be winning!

 

[Whisky]

I wouldn't want the dressage to become more influential, but I don't think this would make much difference. Although having a greater percentage of the mark for paces/rider could work in favour of the pros, in practice the collectives are generally in line with the rest of the marks - so if you are getting 6s and 7s through the test, your collectives will be 6s and 7s. I have seen this on my own test sheets and when watching the live scoreboards at big events.

 

[carthorse]

Yes that is true because they only go on the percentage ,don't they and the percentage wouldn't change much

 

[Whisky]

Exactly - the percentage turns into your penalty marks. This wouldn't actually change the "weighting" of the dressage compared to the other phases.

 

[ajf]

I know someone who did an OPN, came 8th with 1 down showjumping and a stop xc!!!!!! There were 30 odd in the section, and if i'd done a double clear and been unplaced i'd be very p*ssed of!!!

 

[H-J]

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I know someone who did an OPN, came 8th with 1 down showjumping and a stop xc!!!!!! There were 30 odd in the section, and if i'd done a double clear and been unplaced i'd be very p*ssed of!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is EXTREMELY rare though! OPN are usually one of the toughest classes

 

[lifeslemons]

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But eventing isnt just about "good" jumpers, its about the 3 phases all on one day showing the horse can do all 3 well.

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No of course its not just about the jumping, but a balance does need to be achieved which allows the best "allrounder" to win. Personally I think this balance already exists, albeit precariously.


[ QUOTE ]
I truly do agree that most eventers to not work hard enough on their flatwork, some never even going and doing "just" dressage.

[/ QUOTE ]

We clearly know very different eventers

Flatwork standards, in my opinion, continue to rise, and the message is spreading at all levels. I struggle to think of anyone who doesn't put blood, sweat and tears into their flatwork. Pure dressage trainers are becoming more and more involved too. The fact that the top level is entering the terrority of PSG more and more reflects the growing standards and lack of complacency. Lets hope it continues

 

[hotellie]

i definately think that it should not be changed as it would make it more of a pros game....as often their horses have better paces and obviously they are often better riders and for this they should get some credit but not too much.

 

[lucretia]

the best horses seem to win on the whole in national classes as do the best jockeys so i wouldnt change anything there. lets just hope the FEI dont think its a fab idea as international classes are w]enough of a dressage contest as it is is!