Should he stay or go ....

Thanks all, you have certainly made me chuckle with your stories and mishaps .. its making me feel normal again and not some loony!

To answer the question of liking him .. Yes I really do like him, he shows so much expression in his eyes, his tail will give you an immediate insight into how he is feeling (down is bad, curled up over his bum good .. dont ask, god knows what's in the genes to get a tail curled up and over, lol!) He will carry the weight of the world on his shoulders one moment and then give a sly little wag of his tail when I kiss his face which melts my heart because its 10000% better than he was a month ago when we literally couldnt get near him and he had to be 'herded' to where you wanted him!

This morning he greeted me with a wagging tail and no accidents so I opened the back doors for them both and went back to bed (don't know why i was awake at 0500!) and then at 0600 when I went back in the kitchen he was like a bouncing loonatic and throwing himself all over me. My OH has taken him for a lovely walk this morning and bumped into a neighbour with his lab and all three dogs romped away playing and he behaved perfectly with good recall ect (a month ago we never thought he would ever be allowed off lead he would have just been gone and no one would have caught him!)

My heart breaks for our collie, she has graciously accepted him and and has gone from sleeping on her own bed in our bedroom to sleeping with him in the kitchen .. mostly on the floor because he steels her bed .. why would he sleep in his own when it smells of wee!!! That breaks my heart, she doesnt deserve that :( The plan will be to have them both on there own beds in our bedroom, its something that will need practice at the weekend perhaps when we can be sleep deprived!

All in all feeling more positive, thank you all :)
 
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he is a gorgeous pup! Why not crate him overnight if you feel bad for her? My goldie is not crated overnight now, the collie is (because of the eating random stuff habit) although he also has his own space for eating and sleeping if he wants-I find it helps to give them time out from each other (and me tbh).
 
MotherOfChickens said:
he is a gorgeous pup! Why not crate him overnight if you feel bad for her? My goldie is not crated overnight now, the collie is (because of the eating random stuff habit) although he also has his own space for eating and sleeping if he wants-I find it helps to give them time out from each other (and me tbh).
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Crating hasnt really worked for us with him although there is a crate in the kitchen always open and its handy for when we just need 'a moment' lol! You might be on to something though so perhaps him crated overnight with her still in the kitchen .. taking her away .. god no, we wont go through that again, lol!
 
Postpartum dog-buying is definitely a thing.

There've been times when I've thought 'What have I done? I want my old life back'. I'm three months in and I'm only just getting used to the responsibility and commitment/routine. I can no longer go out after work, my lunch breaks are spent walking home to walk him and then walking back again, as soon as I get home he needs to be taken out for a burn off, I can't just go away at a moment's notice anymore. They are a huge tie and to be honest I've had moments of thinking 'If you slipped away peacefully that would be okay with me right now' :redface3:

He was a rescue so I've been through the usual rubbish with him; getting home to a giant steaming $hit on the floor, him weeing up the curtains/on my high-pile rug/constantly following me everywhere and getting under my feet. They are such hard work, it's honestly exhausting at times.

Thankfully we are now at the stage where I trust him to roam free home alone and he's brilliant (read: he'll get on the sofa as soon as I'm gone and get off it as soon as he sees me coming back :rolleyes3:).

Stick with the pup for a bit longer - nothing that you've said is major. Completely understand how you feel though. Just another nine or so years to go...
 
no, didnt mean taking her away-just letting them have their own space and her own bed :)


I am surprised at how many of you seem to find it such hard work, dont know why you all bother if its so bad lol. I had two weeks without a dog last year and simply didnt know what to do with myself. Its hard work but I've never regretted any of them, not even the psycho collie rescue.
 
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MotherOfChickens said:
no, didnt mean taking her away-just letting them have their own space and her own bed :)


I am surprised at how many of you seem to find it such hard work, dont know why you all bother if its so bad lol. I had two weeks without a dog last year and simply didnt know what to do with myself. Its hard work but I've never regretted any of them, not even the psycho collie rescue.
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LOL I KNO!!! I'm happy as larry with my lot, two horses at home, 7 chickens (6 eggs under a broody) a large boa constrictor, two cats and the collie so now two dogs. People cant believe how many animals we have .. it drives me nuts when they say that, I bloody hate it!!!

I normally refer them to a neighbour who has a small holding in her back garden, lol! I never see it as us having too many, far from it I think we have room for more (never gona happen .... for now ;) )
 
MotherOfChickens said:
no, didnt mean taking her away-just letting them have their own space and her own bed :)


I am surprised at how many of you seem to find it such hard work, dont know why you all bother if its so bad lol. I had two weeks without a dog last year and simply didnt know what to do with myself. Its hard work but I've never regretted any of them, not even the psycho collie rescue.
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It depends on your circumstances. If I was living in a house, with an OH to help, and not also working full time then TBH yes it would be a hell of a lot easier.

As it stands I live in an apartment so I physically have to walk him rather than just open a door and let him out in the garden while I sit down with a cuppa like I imagine a lot of people can do! My routine is wake up at 6:45 to walk dog for half hour, walk to work at 7:40 to get there for 8, work 8am-12pm, walk home at 12pm, walk dog for 20 mins, walk back to work for 1, work 1-5, get home at 5 and walk dog for an hour, get home, do usual chores, have dinner, do a bit of reading, take dog out at 11pm before bed. Doesn't leave for a lot of 'me' time!
 
I am glad you are feeling better about things. Our Labrador was a monster for his fist year and I had forgotten just how much work puppies are. We still cannot leave food on the counter tops or its gone as soon as our backs are turned, ditto when I feed my hens.

He is georgous and I think I see a bit of Elkhound in that tail possibly, sounds like you are giving him a wonderful life and he will eventually grow up to be a well balanced dog. I would try the crates in your bedroom to keep your collie happy.
 
Antw23uk said:
LOL I KNO!!! I'm happy as larry with my lot, two horses at home, 7 chickens (6 eggs under a broody) a large boa constrictor, two cats and the collie so now two dogs. People cant believe how many animals we have .. it drives me nuts when they say that, I bloody hate it!!!

I normally refer them to a neighbour who has a small holding in her back garden, lol! I never see it as us having too many, far from it I think we have room for more (never gona happen .... for now ;) )
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I'll rasie you to 10 chickens, one cockerel, 5 ducks and two drakes (two ducks sitting) one pair of geese (goose sitting), 2 dogs (11 and 12 months old), 2 cats and granted, although I have two horses one is away right now. Also commute 90 mins a day, work 1.5 jobs, OH works away much of the time and when he's not working we are taking care of his parents or his children. He says we are full to capacity and he could be right.. I am too busy its true-but having a dog around and seeing to it first has been a part of life since I was a child, am lost without them. I have cut right back on the poultry and am waiting on the chickens snuffing it.

Anyway, you have two lovely dogs. Dont be afraid of making it slightly easier on yourself though-crate him, use a puppy gate, teach him a settle command and some impulse control games, spend quality time with both-on their own.
 
SpringArising said:
It depends on your circumstances. If I was living in a house, with an OH to help, and not also working full time then TBH yes it would be a hell of a lot easier.

As it stands I live in an apartment so I physically have to walk him rather than just open a door and let him out in the garden while I sit down with a cuppa like I imagine a lot of people can do! My routine is wake up at 6:45 to walk dog for half hour, walk to work at 7:40 to get there for 8, work 8am-12pm, walk home at 12pm, walk dog for 20 mins, walk back to work for 1, work 1-5, get home at 5 and walk dog for an hour, get home, do usual chores, have dinner, do a bit of reading, take dog out at 11pm before bed. Doesn't leave for a lot of 'me' time!
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I know people do that whole open the back doors and let them run around but its not in my makeup to do that. We have a damn large garden but three walks a day minimum for them. They have to get out and about even if its a walk to the stables and back at lunchtime!

silv said:
I am glad you are feeling better about things. Our Labrador was a monster for his fist year and I had forgotten just how much work puppies are. We still cannot leave food on the counter tops or its gone as soon as our backs are turned, ditto when I feed my hens.

He is georgous and I think I see a bit of Elkhound in that tail possibly, sounds like you are giving him a wonderful life and he will eventually grow up to be a well balanced dog. I would try the crates in your bedroom to keep your collie happy.
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I think crating in the bedroom might be the way forward. Off to google Elkhound now ... Whats a typical/ common Romanian dog with a curly tail? He is defo GSDxcollie but there is probably plenty more in there, lol!
 
Your dog is gorgeous.

Do you know what I would do I would ask around or look for recommendations and get a 1 to 1 with a dog behaviourist. Lots of the behaviour your dog is showing is stress related obviously, my little girl had been in rescue kennels and stress stress stress is still on the agenda now but she is getting there. We have been together since February and I am experienced with terriers but not really with such a stressed dog so her behaviours I didn't understand them. I contacted a lady who I found on recommendations from various places. Do you know what she was lovely. Sat down with me, watched what was happening, told me what was happening, things I wasn't seeing myself, listened to my worries about her, gave me ideas on what to do and that was the best money I had ever spent.

People can tell you to do this and that but until they see you in a home environment, seeing how you react to these situations you can be making things worse. What is right for one dog is different to the other dog.

Since February when we got her - no recall (was told not to let her off the lead by the rescue centre), keep her in a crate at night as she cries, very worried about other dogs and barks constantly in a room full of other dogs, does not like strangers, children or men Now she has very good recall, she sleeps in her own bed at night in the lounge on her own, still a little worried around other dogs still barks but not as much, fine with children and adores OH and isn't bothered by visitors. She also has started flyball and we do to dog training classes with the same lady who came to see her every week. Putting her into situations that are scary for me and well as her (this is the thing I am trying to explain) actually help us both as we cope in them. We have built up trust. It is not easy especially with a little scruffy terrier but it is so rewarding.

I started a blog a few months ago just to see how far we had come and when I look back I just cant believe how much we have both changed.
https://pepperspawprints.wordpress.com/
 
Antw23uk, you really do sound like you have heaps of experience with dog training&behaviour. If you think the puppy is too much for your household and you have genuinely tried to make it work, please don't feel guilty about finding a more suitable home for him.
If you do want to keep working with him, Kaylum suggested seeing a dog behaviourist and I agree that a few 1-2-1 sessions might be of use.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
no, didnt mean taking her away-just letting them have their own space and her own bed :)


I am surprised at how many of you seem to find it such hard work, dont know why you all bother if its so bad lol. I had two weeks without a dog last year and simply didnt know what to do with myself. Its hard work but I've never regretted any of them, not even the psycho collie rescue.
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We had a break of a month and hated it, it was the first 'gap' between dogs in nearly 50 yrs, we had previously always introduced pups to adults and the adults helped with the training. Then we realised that the 2 Rotter pups didn't speak English, what a shock that was to the system! Now they understand every word they hear, even on the TV.
Over the years, we have had dogs eat just about anything you can think of, one lab loved to help herself to eggs and butter from the dresser, if they weren't pushed far enough out of the way. We have had dogs, and not just when they were pups, eat long riding boots, false teeth, spectacles, Christmas cake, £20 note, amongst other things.
Anyone who hasn't learned to make sure the dog can't get it, has either never had a dog or been extremely lucky.

OP, I don't understand why you take the dog to lead the horses, don't you keep them at home? Our horses and dogs share our yard but are never allowed on it together, I prefer to avoid avoidable accidents.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
We had a break of a month and hated it, it was the first 'gap' between dogs in nearly 50 yrs,
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we lost our old dog, which was expected but then lost the other-which was not. It was dire although we'd already put a deposit down on a pup so we knew how long we'd have to wait. It was awful-first break for over 20 years. There have been times in my life when the only reason I have got up is to see to my dog, not having that was just horrendous.

We had a dog when I was a kid that ate all sorts of things but it was the beagle cross that made me have to up my game at food security lol.

I am a pet dog owner, I get maybe one puppy every decade-not even that as I've taken on older rescues. Just think puppies are a gift, I absolutely love them. Too soon it seems you are worrying about signs of aging and when you might have to make *that* decision. So I am not having a go, I just love puppies. Part of me is still a little disappointed that it was best for us to get one a bit older as the second dog recently, even though he's a lovely dog.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
no, didnt mean taking her away-just letting them have their own space and her own bed :)


I am surprised at how many of you seem to find it such hard work, dont know why you all bother if its so bad lol. I had two weeks without a dog last year and simply didnt know what to do with myself. Its hard work but I've never regretted any of them, not even the psycho collie rescue.
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I'm so glad you said that....our puppy is coming home in about 6 weeks and I'm starting to think we must be insane to be even considering a puppy! (this is despite the fact that we are as prepared as we can be and have all the necessary support in place) Really, I should probably be avoiding the internet for the next 6 weeks.
 
Widgeon said:
I'm so glad you said that....our puppy is coming home in about 6 weeks and I'm starting to think we must be insane to be even considering a puppy! (this is despite the fact that we are as prepared as we can be and have all the necessary support in place) Really, I should probably be avoiding the internet for the next 6 weeks.
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You will love every minute! Puppy smell, unconditional love, they are a delight, and much nicer than children. :-) I say the last bit as my mum has had to puppysit a bit for me and she said she would rather have a puppy than another grandchild.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
We had a break of a month and hated it, it was the first 'gap' between dogs in nearly 50 yrs, we had previously always introduced pups to adults and the adults helped with the training. Then we realised that the 2 Rotter pups didn't speak English, what a shock that was to the system! Now they understand every word they hear, even on the TV.
Over the years, we have had dogs eat just about anything you can think of, one lab loved to help herself to eggs and butter from the dresser, if they weren't pushed far enough out of the way. We have had dogs, and not just when they were pups, eat long riding boots, false teeth, spectacles, Christmas cake, £20 note, amongst other things.
Anyone who hasn't learned to make sure the dog can't get it, has either never had a dog or been extremely lucky.

OP, I don't understand why you take the dog to lead the horses, don't you keep them at home? Our horses and dogs share our yard but are never allowed on it together, I prefer to avoid avoidable accidents.
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The horses are at home but its a walk through the driveway and between two neighbours paddocks to get to my fields and stables (about a five minute walk max) and I tend to kill two birds with one stone and take the dog with me unless I'm riding out so I've been doing the same with the pup as so guilty about the time spent with him and I have the motto of never walking anywhere empty handed (as you do when you own horses) The collie is obviously fine with the horses, she stays out of there way and I know she wont go anywhere or do anything but obviously with puppy Im trying to do it all.

Last night I drove to yard (I often do, it takes a minute in the car) and left both dogs in the car whilst i did the horses and then afterwards we had an hour running round the empty paddock, playing ball and jumping some poles on the ground, we had a great time even though it was POURING with rain (none of us will melt, lol) So I kind of think i will start doing that rather than trying to do it all at the same time and its only the odd week when the OH is on lates otherwise normally I do the morning and lunchtime walks and he does the evenings so i can do the horses and ride ect :)
 
Don't forget if he is five months he should only be having a maximum of half an hour walking a day.
It will be easier if you let it be, promise!
 
I had a scrounger and a roamer all in one dog.
I should have known really, her mum used to trot down the road to the village, about a mile, and then trot back. One day she trotted home pregnant to the farmer non- pedigree working lab, so all the pups were very xbred black labs. I had the pick of the litter and I chose her.
Lovely friendly puppy, but if you left the back gate open a squeak she was gone and as soon as she learned she could raid bins she was in heaven, she also snacked on bird tables. She ate takeaways complete with the foil carton, margarine, 3lbs of unripe tomatoes sat on the window sill, anything she would eat it. She was never starved, she was never hungry and in other ways was well trained.
When I had the kids I never had to hoover or dropped food, she loved them or the fact they dropped food.
As the kids got older more accidents happened and the gate got left open, and off she would trot. She would come back if she knew you could see her, I once caught her hiding in a sugar beet field, ignoring me. I had stood on a bank and look down and as soon as she realised I had seen her she would come back.
The there are the gullible neighbours who would see this happy waggy dog, think it was lost and feed it. On her collar it said 'do not feed', but it gave her another reason to trot off. If I knew her route from previous calls, I would sit and stake her out in the car, once at 2 in the morning.
She would squeeze through the smallest of holes, that you would never think a full grown lab could get through.
Would I have had her if I had known, my RPCA collie had issues but we managed to train her, but the black lab was a roamer and a thief at every opportunity till the day she died , and who wants a half grown lab x? She caused a lot of arguments, and I had a women shouting at me for letting my dog roam. There was no letting.
So I think if you can rehome the dog do not feel bad, if its really causing that much trouble. I now appreciate the dogs I now have, but its luck that they are so little trouble.
 
Your latest post sounds as if you have found a way forward, just take care not to over exercise him, or you could be setting up health problems for the future.

I have to admit that I could never puppy walk, as gorgeous as they are, they are hard work and you are only just getting over the hard work when it is time to give them back.
 
Just read one of your most recent posts. If your dog was born in a shelter from Romanian street dog heritage there will only be one thing in your dog's DNA. Survival. Eat on the run, fight or flight. It's additionally hard to condition a dog like this which may come from generations of semi or fully feral dogs, to fit into the average family home.

IMO it is a fallacy to think that a puppy is a blank canvas. Certain traits echo through generations. A bitch carries a puppy for nine weeks and raises it for the same amount of time.

We pick certain types of horses for dressage, showjumping, pulling a cart. Collies herd, bloodhounds trail, terriers like going down holes. We go to types and breeds because of genetics.
To think that dogs only inherit some qualities but not others doesn't make sense. So you have an added challenge in that this dog is not inherently bred to fit into a normal busy northern European household. So well done for getting this far.
 
Thanks all, no definitely not over exercising him, im a real stickler for that. I didnt stop advising friends when they got a lab puppy about how important it is to keep walks to a minimum ... of course they didnt listen and the dog has just spent ten weeks in a crate after having his elbows sorted thanks to the three hour walks they were giving im at 4 months old!!! He's a year old and knackered thanks to them!

We have been in contact with the charity and he will be looking for a new home. I'm too upset to go into details but we have to think of our existing dog and she is becoming miserable with him around and we are pretty miserable as well although always staying positive when around him. It's sad, i feel guilt ridden (and so i damn well should!) but I know in my heart its the right thing for him and us. I've actually gone from being on his side to now not liking him very much at all! :( Hate myself right now so please keep the hate to a minimum. Thanks.
 
Antw23uk said:
Thanks all, no definitely not over exercising him, im a real stickler for that. I didnt stop advising friends when they got a lab puppy about how important it is to keep walks to a minimum ... of course they didnt listen and the dog has just spent ten weeks in a crate after having his elbows sorted thanks to the three hour walks they were giving im at 4 months old!!! He's a year old and knackered thanks to them!

We have been in contact with the charity and he will be looking for a new home. I'm too upset to go into details but we have to think of our existing dog and she is becoming miserable with him around and we are pretty miserable as well although always staying positive when around him. It's sad, i feel guilt ridden (and so i damn well should!) but I know in my heart its the right thing for him and us. I've actually gone from being on his side to now not liking him very much at all! :( Hate myself right now so please keep the hate to a minimum. Thanks.
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Heartbreaking for you. But remember if you can't cope your dog won't cope - that is one thing I have learnt, at least the charity are helping him get a new home that is positive.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Just read one of your most recent posts. If your dog was born in a shelter from Romanian street dog heritage there will only be one thing in your dog's DNA. Survival. Eat on the run, fight or flight. It's additionally hard to condition a dog like this which may come from generations of semi or fully feral dogs, to fit into the average family home.

IMO it is a fallacy to think that a puppy is a blank canvas. Certain traits echo through generations. A bitch carries a puppy for nine weeks and raises it for the same amount of time.

We pick certain types of horses for dressage, showjumping, pulling a cart. Collies herd, bloodhounds trail, terriers like going down holes. We go to types and breeds because of genetics.
To think that dogs only inherit some qualities but not others doesn't make sense. So you have an added challenge in that this dog is not inherently bred to fit into a normal busy northern European household. So well done for getting this far.
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A very good post, I hadn't realised he was an import.
I think you are doing the right thing to rehome him, OP.
 
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