Should I buy this "fearful" mare?

Toraylac

Toraylac

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I have a very beautiful 5yr old warmblood mare that came from Germany last year to replace my mare that had to be pts. I purposely chose the same breeder of my original mare as the mare line is just sooo good and was delighted with my bought unseen girl. She proved to be rather sharp and difficult to back but now is excellent to ride (but sadly out of work due a stifle injury:mad:). My problem is that I have found her dam for sale in Germany who is in foal to a very famous dressage stallion and the elderly vendor doesn't want very much for her at all as she has can't be ridden or driven due to her being a little fearful. She is a State Premium mare and has bred several very nice foals. Do you think she will pass on this "fearfulness" to her foals? Can she be helped?
 
You already sort of have the answer to that, is your mare fearful? If you find your current mare tricky to ride, I'd look carefully at who the sire is for the foal to see if you are likely to have a hard to handle youngster.

Also, bear in mind that although you may well be able to handle the foal (assuming he/she is a bag of nerves), will anyone else be able to in the case that one day you may have to sell him/her.

What's the breeding of the mare and the stallion, then maybe some of the dressage breeders on here can give you an idea as to likely temprements (though clearly these can vary as I'm v different to my sister!)
 
Hmm, I've now bred 3 foals and had 2 mares with foals at foot. I know that the rhetoric is 'they get their temprement from the mares' - that's not how it panned out for me though. My very fearful ex-racer then farmed TB mare has bred 2 foals for me, one this year fearless (overly so) and the other was quite fearful but now as 3 year old is anything but. I brought a very nice mare with foal at foot and the foal was really, really aggressive:confused: My Clover Hill mare is quite hysterical temprement wise and a real worrier but her foal is so laid back I didnt even halter it to microchip, a year later it had some cellulitis and despite being unhandled since weaning got penicillin and anti-inflam and tet anitoxin (3 jabs) with no hassle whatsoever. Go with your gut on this but be prepared for it to be difficult.
 
OK for you dressage experts, Mum is a Frenchman X Cavalier mare and her daughter that I have is by Royal Blend. The mare is in foal again to Rotspon due to foal in June 2012. My mare who was pts was half-sister to mare by Fabriano x Cavalier and she had a FAB temperament. Her son by Sandro Hit is 2.5 yrs now and has a great temperament and is still entire and I thought SH's were supposed to be difficult.!!!!
 
On my previous yard we had a dippy arab pony in the riding school - very talented jumper but a bit prone to hysterics. Not long after she arrived she was found to be pregnant. Her filly foal turned out to be very much like her dam in every respect!
 
Toraylac said:
OK for you dressage experts, Mum is a Frenchman X Cavalier mare and her daughter that I have is by Royal Blend. The mare is in foal again to Rotspon due to foal in June 2012. My mare who was pts was half-sister to mare by Fabriano x Cavalier and she had a FAB temperament. Her son by Sandro Hit is 2.5 yrs now and has a great temperament and is still entire and I thought SH's were supposed to be difficult.!!!!
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My WB is Sandro Hit bred and they are nicknamed Sandro S**ts ! He is lovely, but he has attitude.:)
 
My homebreds mother is a placid, laid back gentle cob......her daughter isn't, she always has 'ants in her pants', will bite strangers, has unlimited energy and is always on the lookout for mischief...all this must come from her father!!!!. Her grandfather is Pouchka who I believe has 'attitude'
 
YasandCrystal said:
My WB is Sandro Hit bred and they are nicknamed Sandro S**ts ! He is lovely, but he has attitude.:)
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Lol! That strikes a chord, I have an Oldenburg who has Sandro on the dams side and he has serious attitude, mind you it's mixed with Contender blood on his sired side, so double the attitude.

OP I'd say go and see the mare and judge her in the flesh.
 
Cluny said:
Lol! That strikes a chord, I have an Oldenburg who has Sandro on the dams side and he has serious attitude, mind you it's mixed with Contender blood on his sired side, so double the attitude.

OP I'd say go and see the mare and judge her in the flesh.
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The mare is near Hamburg and there is very little chance of getting out to see her in the near future.... I have puppies due.
 
Toraylac said:
I have a very beautiful 5yr old warmblood mare that came from Germany last year to replace my mare that had to be pts. I purposely chose the same breeder of my original mare as the mare line is just sooo good and was delighted with my bought unseen girl. She proved to be rather sharp and difficult to back but now is excellent to ride (but sadly out of work due a stifle injury:mad:). My problem is that I have found her dam for sale in Germany who is in foal to a very famous dressage stallion and the elderly vendor doesn't want very much for her at all as she has can't be ridden or driven due to her being a little fearful. She is a State Premium mare and has bred several very nice foals. Do you think she will pass on this "fearfulness" to her foals? Can she be helped?
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Just wanted to say... your warmblood mare sounds very much like my 6yo warmblood mare who is also from Germany. She is currently recovering from an injury of a tendon near the stifle (took a long time!), and hopefully, she can go back to work next year.

The question really is why the dam for sale is so fearful - or whether it's actually not fearful, but overconfident and picky with who can do things with her/may sit on its back. I know people will laugh now. But "professionals" had problems with my mare, though she has forgiven a lot of stupid things I've done in the past.

I mean, if the dam is a State Premium mare, she must at some point have been good to handle... a horse can't become a State Premium mare just like that! My mare was a Premium Foal, and I think she had to go to quite a few shows for that.
 
The question really is why the dam for sale is so fearful - or whether it's actually not fearful, but overconfident and picky with who can do things with her/may sit on its back. I know people will laugh now. But "professionals" had problems with my mare, though she has forgiven a lot of stupid things I've done in the past.

I mean, if the dam is a State Premium mare, she must at some point have been good to handle... a horse can't become a State Premium mare just like that! My mare was a Premium Foal, and I think she had to go to quite a few shows for that.[/QUOTE]

Now this reminds me so much that happened to my 5 yr old mare. We could handle her(eventually) but the "professionals" just could get in to her mind and were determined to MAKE her do what they wanted. I now think she is just very sensitive and actually now that she trusts us, is amazingly loving! I just hope that her mother (in Germany) is a similar mare and can learn to trust again.
 
Toraylac said:
Now this reminds me so much that happened to my 5 yr old mare. We could handle her(eventually) but the "professionals" just could get in to her mind and were determined to MAKE her do what they wanted. I now think she is just very sensitive and actually now that she trusts us, is amazingly loving! I just hope that her mother (in Germany) is a similar mare and can learn to trust again.
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Ha! Our mares must be quite similar then. Both from Germany, with similar characteristics...

I hope your mare's dam can learn to trust again! I think at professional yards, things can be very regimented, and some horses can't cope with that. Just like with humans. My mare is very sensitive with regards to her environment. In a way, she's very reactive to the things around her. I see that, but many don't...
 
It's a hard decision! BUT, a mare who is 'fearful' about being ridden may just have been *******-up! The important thing is how she is to handle on the ground - if she is a real nervous wreck in the field then the problem is basic temperament - and she WILL pass this to her foals through both genetics and in the way they see her behaving when they are young and impressionable!

IF it's basic temperament, then it's not insurmountable - but youwill need to ensure that any foals have LOTS of good handling from an early age (and if she's a mare who is very protective, that can be difficult too!)

One of my best foundation broodmares had been passed from pillar to post before I got her. She slipped her first foal at 290 days - and it was 24 hours before we could get the body from the field - she tried to kill me every time I approached! The next foal she was still 'difficult' - she managed to kick me about 6 times in the first two days! 8 years on, she's still 'foal proud' in the first few days - although she's fine with me now as she's learned to trust me - very 'iffy' with anyone else! All her foals are fine - although they are all 'top dog' in their respective herds (they learned that from her!)
 
out of curiosity, once a stallion like Sandro Hit starts a pattern for throwing progeny with attitude issues why oh why is he still bred from?

actually i dont need to ask really do i, the answer is obviously money. he's an uber talented dressage horse and im presuming his offspring have inherited his dressage ability to command the type of stud fee he does just a shame his difficult temperament seems to be passed along in his genes.

If you're really keen OP, id go and have a look at the mare. I wouldnt buy unseen. Up to you though obviously if the asking price is worth the risk to you.

goodluck!
 
lula said:
actually i dont need to ask really do i, the answer is obviously money. he's an uber talented dressage horse and im presuming his offspring have inherited his dressage ability to command the type of stud fee he does just a shame his difficult temperament seems to be passed along in his genes.
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But is his temperament really that 'difficult'?? I haven't had a Sandro Hit, but I've had a few other youngsters in by stallions reputed to throw 'difficult' temperament. They were - and in two cases still are - 'difficult' - but in fact also have good reason for being 'difficult' other than their breeding! But if we hadn't looked for the underlying reason, we could easily have just put it down to the stallion's temperament!!

A TOP competition horse isn't going to be as 'easy' as a nice Dales pony - or an Irish Draught for that matter! I could put novice riders on my recently backed IDs and they'd be safe - I wouldn't put them on ANY WB or TB youngster! Same as you wouldn't put a learner driver behind the wheel of a Ferrari!
 
I think you said the mare is currently in foal to Rotspon? My friend has a Rotspon gelding and he is pretty straightforward not particularly highly strung he is on the laid back side if anything with a lovely even temperament.
 
sussexbythesea said:
I think you said the mare is currently in foal to Rotspon? My friend has a Rotspon gelding and he is pretty straightforward not particularly highly strung he is on the laid back side if anything with a lovely even temperament.
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I have slept on things and weighing everything up, re-reading a favourite book on horse behaviour - I think I will go with the mare! My farrier has even offered to buy her off me if she is half as nice as her daughter! ( I wouldn't do this though). All I need to do now is find a really good company to bring her back from Hamburg. Any ideas?:D
 
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