Should i get a second vet opinion?!

[maletto]

I'll try to keep this as short as I can, although, you know how it is with horses, there are a million and one thoughts swirling round in my head and I'm not sure who I can trust!!

My horse went suddenly "lame" in a lesson about a month ago whilst I was trotting on the left rein and working on trying to improve flexion to the left. His left rein has always been the worst. I say lame because it wasn't really typical lameness, more a gait abnormality, where he'd "hop" in trot, particularly more on the L rein than the R.

I ended up getting a vet (not my usual vet, but a very well respected vet who my SJ trainer also happens to use, who was coming to the yard to see another horse) to see him and he nerve blocked the shoulder and back, saw no improvement with the former but enough improvement with the latter that it indicated it was a back issue. He then diagnosed the horse as being "weak" but said to get saddles checked and consider investigating the back. He said to carry on riding but just in walk and canter, which i've largely been doing.

Got this vet back last week and he x rayed and ultrasounded the back and said it looked good, bar one small KS type process which he said he wasn't concerned about. then he medicated the SI and the stifles - he said he was doing the stifles not because he thought there was an issue with them but that by medicating them, it would help the horse to get stronger, which he thinks will cure it all. He also said to stick to walk and canter, only trotting if necessary at the end of a session. He has prescribed a muscle building supplement. I asked him after how long I should get him back if no improvement, and he said he didn't know why i was being so pessimistic, he said he was optimistic about the prognosis.

I had the saddler out on Thursday and needed to trot to show him the saddles - my horse is still hopping/refusing to move forward in trot and canter; it's not right. I don't feel like "weak" is a diagnosis - a cause or a symptom, yes, but a diagnosis, no.

Having now written all of this out I can tell I'm definitely leaning towards a second opinion. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on the above? I'm so worried it's something more sinister e.g. suspensories and by riding him i'm doing him damage (nevermind the fact he's clearly in pain and i feel just awful!).

If relevant the horse scoped with grade 1 & 2 ulcers in the summer, and rescoped clear after 4 weeks treatment.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would definitely get a 2nd opinion. I don't understand the first vet's logic, why medicate something that doesn't have an issue.

 

[TheMule]

Sounds classic hind suspensories to me, worth x-raying hocks too

 

[maletto]

I would definitely get a 2nd opinion. I don't understand the first vet's logic, why medicate something that doesn't have an issue.

Sorry Pearlsasinger, should have said he did think there was an SI issue but didn't think there was a stifle issue.

 

[maletto]

Sounds classic hind suspensories to me, worth x-raying hocks too

Thank you. Which particular aspects do you think indicate hind suspensories? I've not had suspensory issues before.

The fact the lameness came on acutely - does that lean towards suspensories too?

 

[TheMule]

Thank you. Which particular aspects do you think indicate hind suspensories? I've not had suspensory issues before.

The fact the lameness came on acutely - does that lean towards suspensories too?

The hopping is classic, more likely to be soft tissue with a sudden onset

 

[Louby]

I had a horse that suddenly became very stuffy in canter, just wouldnt go forwards, ears back, swishing, was clearly unhappy, he wasnt lame. He could be made to go but obviously there was something wrong. He was checked by the vet who was also a physio and they initially suspected SI and an MRI was mentioned if he didnt improve. They also found he had a lot of soreness at the back of the saddle area. 6 weeks off doing exercises in hand, a new saddle (previous saddle had been fitted to him!) and he was fine.
A friends horse had suspensary problems and he was intermittently lame but ever so slightly but you could definately see a head bob if that makes sense.

 

[ester]

I wouldn't be totally happy with that vet, seems a bit of shame that he had the ultrasound but didn't do hind suspensories.
What's the theory on not working him in trot?

 

[SEL]

My mare was a bit like this from April onwards. I trotted her up for numerous vets and they pretty much came up with a different leg each time. I had her adjusted by Rob Jackson (Osteo) and then it really became apparent that she was off behind. I knew her hocks were arthritic but she was still 'off' even on a tonne of danilon so I insisted (as in 'had an argument and told them it was my money') my vets scanned her hind suspensories.

In her case the right is thickened but on the left the ligament has actually pulled away right by the hock (there is a technical name for it, but I was too upset to take it in).

I went down the suspensory route because the fact that she wasn't sound when on danilon suggested to me I was dealing with more than arthritis. She has also been growing some odd flares on her hind feet for months which suggested to me she was wonky. She looked sound in walk and sound in canter but tight behind in trot. Never hopping lame.

I feel awful that it took so many months to get a diagnosis, esp as I was told to ride her on danilon at times - so yes, second opinion.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I will always go for second opinion, as sometimes the first is wrong. I found out hard way

 

[BlackRider]

Definitely get a 2nd opinion, if the horse was working fine before this happened, then it doesn't sound like a weakness issue.

 

[Red-1]

You lost me when the vet nerve blocked the shoulder and back. Normally a nerve block investigation starts from the bottom and works up and to do otherwise does not seem logical. As with the walking and canter, I guess that is so you don't see the lameness? That too sounds highly irregular and illogical to me.

Yes, I would have a second opinion. At a vet hospital where the horse can be worked on hard, soft, flat, hills, under saddle, lunged and in hand. And nerve blocked in a systematic way. Plus possibly ulcer investigation.

Perhaps before that though I would investigate the saddle. What is the horse like lunged? With a different saddle? It could be something as simple as that. At least soreness from the saddle may explain why a nerve block to the back helped. It could also explain "weakness" as the horse may have been moving in a protective way.

 

[Reacher]

I had a horse that suddenly became very stuffy in canter, just wouldnt go forwards, ears back, swishing, was clearly unhappy, he wasnt lame. He could be made to go but obviously there was something wrong. He was checked by the vet who was also a physio and they initially suspected SI and an MRI was mentioned if he didnt improve. They also found he had a lot of soreness at the back of the saddle area. 6 weeks off doing exercises in hand, a new saddle (previous saddle had been fitted to him!) ase.

This was the same with my new horse (I mean atrophied back muscle) Though as muscle badly atrophied it took a lot longer to rehab

 

[MDB]

I haven't got any ideas regarding a diagnosis, but the original vets approach seems a bit vague to me, and I don't understand why he would treat the stifles if they are not the issue. Furthermore, I think it is perfectly reasonable to have a plan such as "review in one month/two weeks/five days if no improvement. I would be a bit miffed if a vet said to me not to be so pessimistic if I asked how long I should wait to contact him again if there is no improvement.

 

[be positive]

You lost me when the vet nerve blocked the shoulder and back. Normally a nerve block investigation starts from the bottom and works up and to do otherwise does not seem logical. As with the walking and canter, I guess that is so you don't see the lameness? That too sounds highly irregular and illogical to me.

Yes, I would have a second opinion. At a vet hospital where the horse can be worked on hard, soft, flat, hills, under saddle, lunged and in hand. And nerve blocked in a systematic way. Plus possibly ulcer investigation.

Perhaps before that though I would investigate the saddle. What is the horse like lunged? With a different saddle? It could be something as simple as that. At least soreness from the saddle may explain why a nerve block to the back helped. It could also explain "weakness" as the horse may have been moving in a protective way.

I don't think you have a diagnosis or even a good educated guess really so would want to take it further and wouldn't think of it as a second opinion but as a starting point to get a diagnosis but would possibly get my physio out first to ensure the saddle is not causing the issue.

 

[ihatework]

Sounds like a bizarre veterinary strategy to me!

I’d send the horse to a good orthopaedic/lameness clinic and let them start from the beginning

 

[twiggy2]

Did the vet start the nerve blocks at the hoof?
I have never seen a shoulder or back being nerve blocked and did not know it could be done?
It does not sound like you have a diagnosis at all to me and I don't understand what is behind still riding a lame horse but only in walk and canter!!!
Definitely a second opinion needed if you ask me.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I am also surprised he didn't start nerve blocking from the hoof up, never heard of starting with the shoulder and back, I would ask why he did that? Working a lame horse in just walk and canter sounds very odd I would definitely want a different vet, but I would be wanting answers from the first vet as all that was potentially a waste of time and your money!

 

[hopscotch bandit]

Horses use different muscle groups in walk than they do in trot and different ones again in canter so maybe that was the basis for no trot because asking for trot is targeting a particular muscle group that the horse feels particularly painful. However I'm no vet or physio so can't advise which muscles are involved in trot.

However him asking you to ride the horse like that doesn't solve the problem, it merely conceals the issue and puts it on the back burner for another day. He doesn't sound like a vet that I would have much confidence in tbh.

 

[annunziata]

gosh I am so sorry how horrid!! i would defo get a second opinion

 

[maletto]

An update for anyone who is interested.... Had my usual vet out (lovely chap, i always wonder though that he's so young how can he possibly have enough experience... Q for another time perhaps).

He listened to my tale of woe and then watched the horse trot up in a straight line then onto the school, where he watched him w/t/c in a circle and trot up in a straight line. Identified right hind lameness. Suspects RH or bilateral hind suspensory issues,or possibly hocks. Obv i'm praying it's arthritic hocks or something similarly easy, but since the first vet seemed to think it was SI, suspensories would go with that.

He's referring the horse for a bone scan. When i asked why not start with nerve blocks he seemed to think that if it's on insurance then the bone scan would cost as much as the nerve blocks and be more beneficial at the outset in case there's more than one issue to look for.

Now i'm not sure why he didn't U/S the horse's legs if he thought suspensories were at issue, and I didn't ask.

I feel awful I've been riding my poor lad for the last few weeks but am glad i have a vet that's now taking me seriously and I feel like there is a plan of action.

 

[little_critter]

Now i'm not sure why he didn't U/S the horse's legs if he thought suspensories were at issue, and I didn't ask.

Give him a call and ask, if he's as lovely as you say then he will be happy to answer your questions.