Should i give this loan horse back???

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Samantha008

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Ive had him three weeks now, hes so gentle and kind and i already love him to death however, hes gone lame. Ive already got my mare, who was diagnosed with wobblers over the summer who is now forever to be a lawn mower!!! My loan horse is lovely to ride, however sometimes his feet have heat i, then the heat disapears the day after, turnout/stable rest has made no difference. Hes lame in front and some other people think from behind too, theres nothing obvious, no swelling or cuts etc.

Ive got the vet coming out this week to give me more of a clue whats wrong....but im wondering whether to send him back or keep him and cross my fingers that itll go away and not come back. Am i taking a risk in keeping him? I want a horse to compete (only locally) and hunt so i need a horse that i can rely on!!!

What do you think???
 
See what your vet says. If the prognosis isn't great, or will require costly long term treatment, then have a chat with the owner and decide between you what you want to do.

Has he had a history of lameness that you know of?
 
Give him a chance. I will never loan any horse again because off this " send him home attitude" sorry to sound harsh but it really winds me up. Maybe you should off had him vetted before you took him on
 
thatsmygirl said:
Give him a chance. I will never loan any horse again because off this " send him home attitude" sorry to sound harsh but it really winds me up. Maybe you should off had him vetted before you took him on
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I wouldn't have expected to have a horse vetted before loaning it. I may be naive, but I would expect the individual loaning the horse to have been honest with the horse's history. If that is the case there would be no reason to return it.

I guess this is a major benefit of loaning a horse rather than buying. If the horse goes lame, or is no longer fit for the purpose it was loaned for, then providing the loaner is given sufficient warning, then the horse can be returned. The same goes for the loanee's personal circumstances.

Surely if someone decides to loan their horse, rather than sell it, then it is reasonable to expect it to be returned at some point?
 
Have you spoken to the owners about his past vet history?! They would be my first port of call....

Could it be laminitus? Again if you speak with his owners, they could give you some info on his vet history, and whether he is prone to this, or any other ailments that may come up in the future.

Equally if a person is happy to loan a horse they are unlikely to do so if it has on going lamness issues, as it is only likely it will come back to them pronto, so would see what vet concludes.
 
Wait and see what the vet says. If it's a minor problem which needs a few weeks off, well that's having a horse for you. If it's something more serious then you can reconsider. I am afraid I agree it would be a bit irresponsible to send him back without even a diagnosis.
 
i should have mentioned that hes still on the trial period where i can send him back within 4 weeks. I wouldnt ever send a horse back becasue it got kicked in the field or was lame through something obvious.... but after just having gone through some of the hardest times in my life having to make decisions about my mare im not really ready to do all that again.

Ive had a physio out, whos told me that she thinks from his muscles, that hes been put through his paces in life and that im really going to have to look after his legs. I wasnt told this when i loaned him out!!!

Of course i will see what the vet says...everyone at my yard thinks i should send him back because of it happening this soon, perhaps meaning hes always going to be going lame!!
 
Did you have any history from owners? If not, I'd let them know he's lame, that you have vet coming to see him and ask them if he's had problems in the past. Sods law something happens when you first get a horse whether it be loaned or purchased. Hope it's something and nothing.
 
Samantha008 said:
i should have mentioned that hes still on the trial period where i can send him back within 4 weeks. I wouldnt ever send a horse back becasue it got kicked in the field or was lame through something obvious.... but after just having gone through some of the hardest times in my life having to make decisions about my mare im not really ready to do all that again.

Ive had a physio out, whos told me that she thinks from his muscles, that hes been put through his paces in life and that im really going to have to look after his legs. I wasnt told this when i loaned him out!!!

Of course i will see what the vet says...everyone at my yard thinks i should send him back because of it happening this soon, perhaps meaning hes always going to be going lame!!
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TBH a physio is going to say that realistically arent they?? Dont think you should take that as gospel.
 
Tiffany said:
Did you have any history from owners? If not, I'd let them know he's lame, that you have vet coming to see him and ask them if he's had problems in the past. Sods law something happens when you first get a horse whether it be loaned or purchased. Hope it's something and nothing.
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^^^^This. Is the vet who is coming the same vet the owner uses? If so, ask if this is an ongoing thing, as you will need to know this to be able to treat it anyway. If not, and it is not obvious to the vet what is up when he/she visits, then you will probably be asked for details of previous vet so they can check out what has happened previously anyway as they will not want to do repeat investigations.

I assume you have ruled out obvious things eg nail prick if recently shod, wounds etc.
 
If I was going to take on a loan horse firstly I would make sure I know as much as possable, speak to vets,farriers etc ( owner won't mind if they are being honest) and have a basic health check or vetting carried out to cover my back. Iv seen it before where loan horses get sent back lame or with problems and who's liable? My mate had a lovely court case due to something similer and cost quite a bit off money. Now she gets a betting carried out to cover her back and tbh the people who have loaned mine and sent them back cause off problem which they had never had in the yrs I had owned them I will never loan again or if I did my horse would go with a full vetting to cover my back and contract by soliter which would stand up. My mate had a bhs contract which when it came down to it was useless.
 
i didnt get a vetting as my experience of vettings has showed to me that they are pretty useless....my horse sailed a 5 stage vetting and was diagnosed with wobblers three weeks later... in hospital and most peopel would have had her put to sleep!!! He was sound when i got him!!! Ive done everything i can for this horse and i will try for him as he is so lovely. I dont want him to go back at all. All i want is peoples opinions as to whether they think its a bit too soon for something to be going wrong when its not an obvious problem (e.g. kick in the field)

Thanks
 
Ive never loaned a horse before, so Im not sure of the 4 week trial period you have but I would have thought a loan horse could be sent back at any time or taken back by owner at any time if need be. My friend has just loaned her horse out, he has problems and she has been totally upfront about them for the sake of the horse so Im suprised if someone loaning a horse would hide soundness problems as you could return the horse at any time.
Have you asked the owner? Its a shame on the poor horse if she has knowingly loaned out a horse with underlying problems but thats not your fault.
In the owners defence though, maybe hes tweaked something, has he been out of work before you got him? I think owner needs to be told, Id want to know if he was my horse.
Good luck I hope you get it sorted.
 
The thing is most people who have been through any rough experience with their horses health (i.e. most horse owners that you know) will say its safer to give him back if its going to be a long term thing, especially cos you've been through it before.

Just reckon thnik as positive as you can until you have a vets diagnosis :) And I didn't get my loan vetted either, aand it is hard to get all background as there is only so much you can find out from trials and vets, etc.

I know I've had a fair few shocks with mine!
 
I have told the owner, i thought it was only fair!!! Well he did have a bout of Lami about 4 years ago, but she says its never been a problem since and that she doesnt and hasnt ever had to do anything differently because of it... he just got a bit footy and had two weeks off then was fine.

I wonder if she hasnt been completely truthful about this. She let me have him with the idea of him living out with my mare... i decided to stable him as he needed to put on condition, he was very ribby, and he still hasnt put on much weight so there isnt a difference there that could have caused lami to come back? Also, his lameness is behind as much as in front but hes not shifting weight and will still go full throttle on the end of a lunge!!!

I dont know... just have a bad feeling. Poor little guy :(
 
jesstickle said:
Well yes, but the physio could have said any number of things surely?
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what like? This horse has suspensory damage or kissing spine? Come on they mainly massage muscles so if they want repeat business..................
bit like the 'back' person, who usually diagnose the pelvis being out or similar, sorry call me cynical but I've heard it so many times and its been wrong so many times...
 
I would wait and see what the vet says but if there has been heat in the hooves I too would be thinking lami. Does he have a digital pulse or has he had the lami stand? I know not all horses show obvious signs of lami though as I have seen some borderline cases the last couple of years in which it was lami but it didn't seem apparent at the time.
You say the horse was ribby. Well the reason for that may be that the horse is prone to lami, in which case the owner has certainly been un-economical with the truth. Where was the horse grazed before? Did you see the actual paddocks/fields? Is the horse being fed hay or haylage? What hard feed was the horse being fed before you got him and what is he being fed now. This can make a difference to laminitic prone horses.
Also you have only had the horse less than a month. He could also be suffering from stress ( although not showing obvious signs) and this can also affect their lami status as well.
Could the horse possibly have thrush? Are the feet all ok? I am only asking this as we have had a very cold and wet spell recently. A wet winter followed by snow and ice and then thawing and mud,mud, mud. Does the horse have smelly or spongy frogs? Any black or dark discharge/gunk around the frog or in the clefts. You probably know all this already but just trying to rule things out as thrush can cause lameness in some cases.
Good luck and I hope when the vet does come and visit that he/she puts your mind at rest and it turns out to be something minor.
 
I would have a chat with the owner and would seriously consider sending him back- at the end of the day as much as you love him he is not yours and the responsibility is the owners, theres no way you should be expected to deal with these sort of problems yourself. If he was my horse there is no way i would expect the loaner to hang onto him if he had lots of probs, fingers crossed that its nothing serious and you can hold on to him x
 
If the horse has a history of lamminitis and the owner was expecting him to live out, then it would suggest to me that this is the problem. You have said that you have been trying to get condition on to him, has this been with the agreement of the owner? Has his fodder been changed from hay to haylage? Our farrier has been saying for some time that the increase in the incidence of lammintiis seems to correlate with the increase in feeding haylage. Have you increased the overall amount of sugar in his feed?
If the feeding and stabling is the cause of the problem, then yes I do think that you should send this horse back, and if I wetre the loaner, I would be coming to fetch it!
 
FestiveG said:
If the horse has a history of lamminitis and the owner was expecting him to live out, then it would suggest to me that this is the problem. You have said that you have been trying to get condition on to him, has this been with the agreement of the owner? Has his fodder been changed from hay to haylage? Our farrier has been saying for some time that the increase in the incidence of lammintiis seems to correlate with the increase in feeding haylage. Have you increased the overall amount of sugar in his feed?
If the feeding and stabling is the cause of the problem, then yes I do think that you should send this horse back, and if I wetre the loaner, I would be coming to fetch it!
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well i had him stabled at first as i was so scared about the stress bringing on lami that i havent changed anything. hes still on hay not haylage, i havent changed anything in his feed apart from taking him off of speedi beet and hes only been out the past week as his feet just seemed to be getting worse in the stable... now hes out, theyve all cooled down apart from one! There is heat down his leg too, however i guess thst could be caused by lami!! I text the owner about him being lame and she replied with "is he lame in front or behind" suggesting that maybe he is lame alot??? If it was my horse id be asking many many more questions??? other than that though shes been brill, came out to check on him etc and seems like a really nice lady with a genuine reason for loaning him. I havent seen him in lami stance, his hot hoof is his back right, but hes still trotting around the field etc.

so stressed about all this :(

he was looking v v ribby, i was never asked to not feed him any more, and i only gave him a bit extra hay at night, hardly a bowlful of sugarful feed!! When his owner came to visit, she bought with her a bag of apples, and gave him two whilst we were stodd there then gave me the bag. I really dont think shes been worried about lami before :(
 
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not being unkind but send the horse back and get something that can be ridden. it doesnt sound like laminitis tbh, it sounds like arthritis, stiffness or general unfitness.
 
Samantha008 said:
I text the owner about him being lame and she replied with "is he lame in front or behind" suggesting that maybe he is lame alot??? :(
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Hmmm - if it were my horse and I had a text from a loaner saying it was lame then I would be on the phone to them asap. As you say - this response sounds a bit odd to me!
 
Sorry, haven't read all the replies, but I've been faced with a similar situation

Last year I took on my loan horse (first time I've ever had one on loan, but have and do own others). My own mare was semi retired due to lameness issues and is a happy lawn mower / hacker for someone else, so my heart was sinking to think that a brand new loan horse was suddenly and unexpectedly lame. We never did get to the exact reason, but think it's a sidebone issue which seems just fine now...and has been since that few weeks of uncertainty.

At the time I spoke to his owner, vet and farrier and just had a wait and see approach. I don't look back with regret -he's a fab horse. If he were to be seriously lame and unfit for the purpose, I would defintely consider sending him back. He's not a pet (though he might think so).

I'm also looking at the possibility of him having EMS (which I'm researching and will get tested) and a friend who knows what I went thru with my mare asked me would I keep the boy on loan still? My answer is YES - he might have issues but manageable ones (hopefully ;) ) and he would be better off being managed in work than being completely retired (which is a possibility if he were to go back?). He's far too good of a horse in so many ways to just turf out cos he's not "perfect"...well, he IS perfect to me but for some this illness could prove to be a management nightmare.


So give this lameness time - speak to the owner and just give it time to sort itself out. At least if the owner knows now there might be a lameness problem she's been fair warned.
 
i agree find out a lot more before returning him!

But what is this trial period you are not buying him you are loaning him. If he was my horse i would want him to be on trial a lot longer than four weeks. horses don't usually settle in four weeks so you are probably going to get some unusual behavior for a while. Why does the owner want to wash her hands of him so quickkly? Could be nothing but if he was mine I would always try to be available if after lots of help it didn't work out even if it meant very well rugged 24/7 turnout!
 
Hal1k1 said:
i agree find out a lot more before returning him!

But what is this trial period you are not buying him you are loaning him. If he was my horse i would want him to be on trial a lot longer than four weeks. horses don't usually settle in four weeks so you are probably going to get some unusual behavior for a while. Why does the owner want to wash her hands of him so quickkly? Could be nothing but if he was mine I would always try to be available if after lots of help it didn't work out even if it meant very well rugged 24/7 turnout!
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I can see your point - in my case the owner gave me a month's contract first - in which case she or I could cancel at a moment's notice. If she thought I wasn't up to it or I thought the horse wasn't up to the job in which I loaned him for, we could ring and end the contract immediately. However, I now have a year contract which states that I have to give two month's notice...which is fair I would say. She kept his insurance going til I had the year contract (in which time I took out my own policy for him, as directed by her requirements) and she probably retained his stable where he was at livery before for the first month. I think a month's trial is pretty reasonable, IMO.
 
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