Should I just be PTS :(

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karen.close

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Ok so I know there's so many posts on here about arthritis and ks.. My story from those who haven't seen my previous posts started back in April. My dear boy wasnt right I knew something was wrong and after 4 days at our local equine hospital I got the news I'd waited for. He's 13 and has mild arthritic changes in his neck, mild arthritis in his right fore, arthritis in his right hock ( which is where he struggles the most) and old ks which they won't touch as it didn't even show on bone scan. He's been worked very hard and as a 5 year old competed in portugal so he has has a life of jumping. He came to me with no intentions of doing any if this and him just being my happy hacker and doing some ridden showing and had a good year on him last year apart from a kick injury. As we came out of the winter it became more and more apparent he wasn't coping very well and had a shortening of stride along with only some slight changes but was getting some musclec wastage.

Now i know I'm rambling on here... So he has EVERYTHING thrown at him, tildren, hock injections, mctimoney, supplements like u wouldn't believe, regular physio, tens treatment and shown improvements and given the go ahead to regular work but gentle of course. We haven't been in a school since April and have been focusing on road and hacking and tonight he just felt so stiff and off.

He was stood by gate away from others just waiting for me and was very narky when brought in. Didn't want to be brushed and although he has never bit or kicked me his ears were down. I took him out against my better judgement and he felt fine apart from just feeling stiff more so than normal but when we trotted speaks were coming off the road from him dropping the right hind.

I returned straight away and called vet who has now recommended the but treatment but my thoughts and hopes are really fading now and I can't help but think he's had a hard life and am I just being cruel now trying to fight something I have no control over! I'd do anything for him I must stress this, he is one of the best cared for horses around, he has five star treatment and is kept as comfortable as I possibly can but I'm just losing hope for him.

Many thanks to u all for reading this x
 
:( I've not much to add to help I don't think as I'm not familiar with some of the treatments mentioned, but as a potential option have you tried any magnet therapy - think the increased blood flow is supposed to help arthritic horses. Sorry if I have completely missed the point :)
 
You seem to have tried everything to help your horse and it does seem that sadly he is now going to get worse as time goes on.
I would try bute for a while it is not going to cover up any pain,it will act as an anti-inflammatory and reduce his discomfort,if it helps he should be happier and is worth trying.
 
Sorry to hear about your horse. I don't know anything directly relevant, but just a few general thoughts:

- are you sure his saddle fits ok? Do you have a different saddle you could try, or a treeless, just to see whether he moves better in that? It may well be that it's all down to his known problems, but sometimes it's worth thinking outside the box, and checking other stuff. (Likewise, teeth too). Oh, I wondered this, especially with you mentioning muscle wastage.

- If he has arthritic changes, I'm guessing he'll be most comfy if you can keep concussion on his feet/body to a minimum. With that in mind, is it worth trying him in the school, and also possibly without shoes, to see whether either or both those things help make him more comfortable. Obviously if you took the shoes off, you wouldn't be able to do lots of miles on the road til he has adapted to it.

- Are you sure you are riding him in a correct soft outline, to help him muscle up correctly? Again, I only ask this because of the muscle wastage. I have only recently realised that one of my mares has been working with her back down and getting muscle wastage as a result. She managed to fool several of us, as she seems to soften nicely in the poll, but somehow keeps the back down at the same time.

Hope you manage to find a small change that you can make, which will help him be comfortable enough to carry on.

Sarah
 
Once again I can highly recommend Equimins Flexi joint MY mare has arthritis in hock due to injury , once on flexi joint she was off bute and back to doing sponsored rides. Money back guarantee. We currently have 6 animals on it not including the dog , all have made a massive improvement on it, Read this from a H&H member who wrote this to me .




Hi there,
A couple weeks ago you recommended equimins flexijoint to me for my arthritic mare.
Just wanted to say thanks!! It has made a massive difference. Way more so than the 2 sachets a day of danilon did! She started on the danilon when the devils relief she was on seemed to stop having much effect and tbh it hasn't really made much difference, she was still totally lame just in the field, and I have been debating THAT decision.
But!! She has been on the flexijoint about 2 weeks now and she's gone from trotting like a cripple to only just noticeably lame which is fine for her, she's retired and I just want her to be comfortable to potter round the field.

She travelled to her new home like a beaut and of course had a hooley round in the field so she's probably sore from that, but she looked ok doing it and didn't seem in pain. When she's settled I'm thinking of taking the danilon down to 1 a day and see if it makes any difference, I doubt it will and there's no point pumping her with stuff she doesn't need.

So... Sorry for the essay!! The short story is thanks tons for the recommendation! Xxx
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I read your post and felt terribly sad for both you and your ned. You know your horse best, I think if you can make him comfortable and he seems happy that is the main thing.

He is bound to have good and bad days and it sounds as though yesterday was a bad one, he may also have tweaked himself in the field or done something daft to cause him to be uncomfortable. I know many horses with arthritic changes than have done well long term on bute and I think keeping him moving with gentle exercise is really important, it certainly kept my old boy going, the second we stopped riding and/or groundwork he seized up.

There are also loads of herbal things you could try. I have been giving my KS horse Rosehips (good for joint maintenence) and celery seed powder which seems to really help him when he gets a bit stiff and is cheap. Lots of people are trying Tumeric as apparently in India it is a standard treatment for arthritus and seems to work well on horses and you could also investigate Boswelia which is starting to be thought of as more effective than Devils claw.

Most of all do what you believe is best for your horse, but you don't sound quite ready to give up on him yet. Let us know how you get on.
 
Is he on any joint supplement or Bute/Danilon. If not, then perhaps you could keep him on it in the short term and see if it makes him more comfortable. If he were mine I wouldn't PTS until I had explored all the options.

You have explored all the new-fangled/expensive options - why not give good old-fashioned anti-inflammatories a go?
 
I can't possibly begin to advise you what to do becuase that's totally your choice..sadly. :( But can tell you what I've just experienced. A fellow livery had decided that because her lad was suffering from bad artritus (ex-trotter so you can imagine his hocks!!) and then got recurrant uvitis (sp) she decided it was time to let him go rather than having him standing in his stable for weeks and making his legs suffer.

Vet said give him a week of treatment on his eye and we'll start him on 1 bute a day because supplements were past any use. Yesterday (2 weeks after the start of treatment) I watched him buck for the first time in 2 years...he gallopped (of a fashion) across the field and even got down and rolled. Okay he won't be ridden again and it is a short term relief but he has now again got quality of life so his owner is happy to let him have a nice retirement until the time comes that bute is no longer an option.

I completely understand whatever your choice, I cannot imagine how awful a position this must be.
 
Karen, I could have written that post of yours and because of that it struck a cord. The only difference is that I couldn't afford to actually do all the treatments that you have tried, though, they were suggested for the same reasons.

I refused to think that at his age that he could have all this without an underlying cause so took a final gamble on a cushings test and it came out positive. He has obviously had these problems for some time (years) and he's the same age as yours.

So, a short while into Pergolide and he has changed beyond all recognition and I have a horse that I have never actual seen since I bought him.

Food for thought I hope :)
 
Stencilface said:
:( I've not much to add to help I don't think as I'm not familiar with some of the treatments mentioned, but as a potential option have you tried any magnet therapy - think the increased blood flow is supposed to help arthritic horses. Sorry if I have completely missed the point :)[/QUOTE

No your not completely missing the point and I appreciate all thoughts, this has been recommended by a friend of mine and I am currently looking into this .. thank you
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MrsD123 said:
You have to do what is best for your horse, they live for the moment, though also remember the past, but I don't think they have a concept of the future in the same way we humans do.
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I'm really trying to be positive and also realistic at the same time, I have a few hard decisions to make and appreciate you taking time to comment x
 
flintfootfilly said:
Sorry to hear about your horse. I don't know anything directly relevant, but just a few general thoughts:

- are you sure his saddle fits ok? Do you have a different saddle you could try, or a treeless, just to see whether he moves better in that? It may well be that it's all down to his known problems, but sometimes it's worth thinking outside the box, and checking other stuff. (Likewise, teeth too). Oh, I wondered this, especially with you mentioning muscle wastage.

- If he has arthritic changes, I'm guessing he'll be most comfy if you can keep concussion on his feet/body to a minimum. With that in mind, is it worth trying him in the school, and also possibly without shoes, to see whether either or both those things help make him more comfortable. Obviously if you took the shoes off, you wouldn't be able to do lots of miles on the road til he has adapted to it.

- Are you sure you are riding him in a correct soft outline, to help him muscle up correctly? Again, I only ask this because of the muscle wastage. I have only recently realised that one of my mares has been working with her back down and getting muscle wastage as a result. She managed to fool several of us, as she seems to soften nicely in the poll, but somehow keeps the back down at the same time.

Hope you manage to find a small change that you can make, which will help him be comfortable enough to carry on.

Sarah
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HI Sarah

His saddle was made special for him and he has regular check ups every 6 mths so I'm really sure it has nothing to do with this. Really when I look back the wastage was already there and his previous owner admitted his saddle didn't fit so it was one of the first things he had done. His teeth were done last week and are also done every six months so again I've eliminated this.

I've had to make a very hard decision in the last week and I will be moving him yards very shortly. This being where I am its gets knee deep mud and is situated on a slop with clay fields. The summer months are beautiful there but come the winter it just becomes awful. For the cost I pay there if I had a perfectly sound horse then this wouldn't be a problem, so I am relocating him to a flat paddocked yard where he will have his own bit. It also has a flood lit rubber and sand school so I will be able to keep him ticking over the winter months. I must stress its been an almighty decision due to the extra expense but I have to give him that chance.

I think he has been keeping his back down for sometime, whilst also fooling us he has been flowing nicely and that the problem stemed from behind I haven't been asking him to much and just letting him have his freedom whilst out riding round the lanes. I'm hoping the changes in his field conditions will help along with rubber matting and shavings to keep him comfortable. However I will also stress I cannot sustain the costs of all his VERY expensive supplements and extra costs on his livery and if in 3 months there is no signs of improvement I will have to make another heart wrenching decision.

Thank you for you response . x
 
Leviathan said:
Once again I can highly recommend Equimins Flexi joint MY mare has arthritis in hock due to injury , once on flexi joint she was off bute and back to doing sponsored rides. Money back guarantee. We currently have 6 animals on it not including the dog , all have made a massive improvement on it, Read this from a H&H member who wrote this to me .
Click to expand...

Thanks you I will look into this, he goes on 2 danilon a day as of today going down to 1 next week I will keep you posted of any improvements but will certainly look into this product

x
 
BethH said:
I read your post and felt terribly sad for both you and your ned. You know your horse best, I think if you can make him comfortable and he seems happy that is the main thing.

He is bound to have good and bad days and it sounds as though yesterday was a bad one, he may also have tweaked himself in the field or done something daft to cause him to be uncomfortable. I know many horses with arthritic changes than have done well long term on bute and I think keeping him moving with gentle exercise is really important, it certainly kept my old boy going, the second we stopped riding and/or groundwork he seized up.

There are also loads of herbal things you could try. I have been giving my KS horse Rosehips (good for joint maintenence) and celery seed powder which seems to really help him when he gets a bit stiff and is cheap. Lots of people are trying Tumeric as apparently in India it is a standard treatment for arthritus and seems to work well on horses and you could also investigate Boswelia which is starting to be thought of as more effective than Devils claw.

Most of all do what you believe is best for your horse, but you don't sound quite ready to give up on him yet. Let us know how you get on.
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I'm looking into other things, I just have so much rushing round in my head I don't know if I'm coming or going. At present I have taken the decision to move him yards for a more comfortable life on flat ground.

He will go onto Danilon as of today for 2 weeks to see if there are any improvements. I need to be looking at other things i.e herbal as this new place is very expensive but very well run.

What I'm doing is giving him the best chance, if that fails then I don't know what I will :(
 
jsr said:
I can't possibly begin to advise you what to do becuase that's totally your choice..sadly. :( But can tell you what I've just experienced. A fellow livery had decided that because her lad was suffering from bad artritus (ex-trotter so you can imagine his hocks!!) and then got recurrant uvitis (sp) she decided it was time to let him go rather than having him standing in his stable for weeks and making his legs suffer.

Vet said give him a week of treatment on his eye and we'll start him on 1 bute a day because supplements were past any use. Yesterday (2 weeks after the start of treatment) I watched him buck for the first time in 2 years...he gallopped (of a fashion) across the field and even got down and rolled. Okay he won't be ridden again and it is a short term relief but he has now again got quality of life so his owner is happy to let him have a nice retirement until the time comes that bute is no longer an option.

I completely understand whatever your choice, I cannot imagine how awful a position this must be.
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What a lovely story and I'm so glad he shown improvements. Am I cruel in saying I wouldn't want him retired and left in a field on bute, I know some people can live with this but I'm just not in a financial position to keep a horse for how ever many years in retirement. Don't get me wrong if I had a field and plenty of money this really would be the option but I have a horse to ride, enjoy the feel of us cantering the hills, and doing the odd ridden show. Am I being selfish in wanting these things, I know things never go to plan and there are people out there that would be perfectly happy with this, but if you asked me would he be happy I actually don't think so, he's a loner and not ridden for a day or so he gets real moody :L x
 
Tiddlepiddle said:
Karen, I could have written that post of yours and because of that it struck a cord. The only difference is that I couldn't afford to actually do all the treatments that you have tried, though, they were suggested for the same reasons.

I refused to think that at his age that he could have all this without an underlying cause so took a final gamble on a cushings test and it came out positive. He has obviously had these problems for some time (years) and he's the same age as yours.

So, a short while into Pergolide and he has changed beyond all recognition and I have a horse that I have never actual seen since I bought him.

Food for thought I hope :)
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Hi,

Could you have really, have you experianced all these things then? please tell me your experiance. I don't want to lose him but I don't want to see him suffer, he has led a colourful life and think it as fate he came to me when he was ignored all those years ago when he first had KS.

Wouldn't the vet hospital picked up on cushings though??

Thank you x
 
karen.close said:
What a lovely story and I'm so glad he shown improvements. Am I cruel in saying I wouldn't want him retired and left in a field on bute, I know some people can live with this but I'm just not in a financial position to keep a horse for how ever many years in retirement. Don't get me wrong if I had a field and plenty of money this really would be the option but I have a horse to ride, enjoy the feel of us cantering the hills, and doing the odd ridden show. Am I being selfish in wanting these things, I know things never go to plan and there are people out there that would be perfectly happy with this, but if you asked me would he be happy I actually don't think so, he's a loner and not ridden for a day or so he gets real moody :L x
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No you are most certainly not cruel. It's totally your decision. The girl at my yard is not physically up to having a horse in full work anyway so she has alot of joy from just being with and pampering her boy so for her the decision to bute him was easy. I say for my lad I'd keep him going as long as possible as long as he wasn't in pain but until I'm in that situation I can never say for sure. I do not envy what you are going through.
 
I'm in such a dilemma really I sound like I have it all planned out what I'm doing and then I just lose it and think am I doing the right thing. I'm leaving so many good friends and my support network into the unknown really and I know folk will say it's best for him but I'm actually devastated by the whole thing :'( I've now been told even if I do move him and he still doesn't respond the vet won't pts but this isn't the conversation I had with him all those months ago.. If anything he agreed we would give it our best shot. Am I just listening to, to many people... Am I just one of those people that can't bare to see my horse lame or not perfect, god I've seen enough states at shows that just shouldn't be ridden. All this is costing me a fortune I just dont know what to do. X
 
karen.close said:
Thanks you I will look into this, he goes on 2 danilon a day as of today going down to 1 next week I will keep you posted of any improvements but will certainly look into this product

x
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If you can when you phone Equimins ask to speek to David i have had al long chat with him recently about my mare now got laminitis he went into detail about laminator he REALLY REALLY knows is stuff Equimins make their products from scratch .

Another company actually makes individual tonics for the individual horse. I have never used them tho but my livery does .

http://trinity-consultants.com/index.php?option=com_zoo&view=category&Itemid=12
 
I'm certain that you'll see a difference on bute, but there are also inexpensive things that can help like micronised linseed and there are lots of good reports about using turmeric - a couple of pounds for a kilo bag from Tesco.

If you don't see a difference then there's no crime in releasing a horse from pain. xx
 
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