Ratface
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the triple reply. My phone is having hiccups!
Should I look elsewhere or not?
- Thread starter Grajo
- Start date
Boulty
Well-Known Member
Really random thought (& not suggesting this as a replacement for current lessons, rather something to try alongside) but have you ever had lessons on a riding simulator of any kind? Just wondering if it might be an interesting way to work on your position as a lot of them have screens in front that can give you visual feedback on how you're sitting, how straight / crooked you are, how you're using your hands & legs etc as well as having your instructor right there at the side of you.
I've certainly found the few sessions I've had on them really useful (really must attempt to find somewhere that offers them before subjecting my poor youngster to my very rusty riding!) & just wondered that as it might be a way of getting instant feedback on things like your position / how things feel when everything is "right". Just might be something worth looking into as an alternative to lunge lessons perhaps
As for the issues you're having with this horse not everyone gets on with every horse & it's very frustrating trying to persuade a horse who you don't gel with to work with you. Would try & discuss with instructor rather than the management to see if they could arrange a few rides on a horse you get on better with maybe with a view to returning to him in a few weeks, hopefully armed with some different strategies to try with him. If you've block booked a load of sessions then you may as well use them but if you're still not happy when they come to an end then no harm trying somewhere else as might be better to ride less frequently if you're getting more out of the lessons / enjoying them more.
I've certainly found the few sessions I've had on them really useful (really must attempt to find somewhere that offers them before subjecting my poor youngster to my very rusty riding!) & just wondered that as it might be a way of getting instant feedback on things like your position / how things feel when everything is "right". Just might be something worth looking into as an alternative to lunge lessons perhaps
As for the issues you're having with this horse not everyone gets on with every horse & it's very frustrating trying to persuade a horse who you don't gel with to work with you. Would try & discuss with instructor rather than the management to see if they could arrange a few rides on a horse you get on better with maybe with a view to returning to him in a few weeks, hopefully armed with some different strategies to try with him. If you've block booked a load of sessions then you may as well use them but if you're still not happy when they come to an end then no harm trying somewhere else as might be better to ride less frequently if you're getting more out of the lessons / enjoying them more.
Grajo
Well-Known Member
I need to ride every week. It is good for my exercise - both physically and mentally.
Grajo
Well-Known Member
Absolutely 100%
I got the reply (see below)
" While our horses are well mannered we do not feel we have the correct environment to cater to your needs as we only have an outdoor school which is backed onto by gardens, unfortunately this does mean we get a lot of children etc playing who can be heard but not seen, and you would not be in a position to adapt to this, or hear the instructors advice if a horse reacts."
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
That sounds fair to me Grajo, it's not discrimination, it's a genuine safety issue. I understand that it feels that way to you, and must be very upsetting, but if an instructor can't give you instructions that you can respond to very quickly when you are doing faster work or on a sharper horse, you could end up very hurt, and them very liable.
I echo everyone above who thinks that you should approach the RDA.
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ihatework
Well-Known Member
I think it’s fantastic you are learning to ride!
I’m torn by this response. On one hand it must feel pretty discriminatory, but on the other hand riding is a high risk sport and I completely understand this response.
I think this is probably what you are experiencing with this particular horse. The horse is reacting to something and possibly because of your deafness you are unable to predict, hear instructors in real time and react quick enough.
Over time, as your riding progresses you will get to the point where the horse is completely listening to you and as such outside distractions become less of an issue. But this does take years, novices never quite understand how much continued learning goes on for riders.
You are in a bit of a catch 22 here. The completely non responsive horses to outside stuff will also be the ones you find ‘lazy’. They are difficult horses to learn on. The ones that are a little more reactive do the stuff you are experiencing - these are very normal horses that you will need to learn to ride. The horses that are forward, immaculately behaved and completely non responsive to outside stuff are like gold dust and it’s just very unrealistic to expect to get them that often!
It sounds like the RS are doing the best they can under the circumstances. I think in your shoes I’d address the lesson start times and request your preferred horses/instructors (accepting that sometimes your preferences logistically won’t be able to be met).
Keep us updated on your progress ?
Grajo
Well-Known Member
No it is 100% discrimination. Their response was an excuse.
teapot
Well-Known Member
Or their insurance won't allow it (and no those things are not necessarily stated in writing either). Please be careful of writing such statements online too.
Grajo I admire you determination to ride, but you really must understand that every yard you try will have a duty of care to keep you safe, and as a result, this may limit your experience while you're still learning. You're not yet at the stage of feeling and proactively reacting to a horse about to spook or nap, that comes with years of experience and feel.
I second the RDA recommendation, and having taught for RDA, the bigger set ups really are fantastic, in fact better than some non RDA centres. Are you ridng indoors at your current centre?
Widgeon
Well-Known Member
Yes this is true, they're certainly not all full of hairy plods (which seems to be the public perception of RDA). Also they will be much better at finding alternative setups for anyone who can't access the traditional (haha) lesson format of being yelled at from the middle of a circle! You might even find they're less worried about your deafness than many riding schools would be, because they will teach lots of deaf / hearing impaired people and will be used to it. It would be worth sending a few emails out, you might end up being able to access better quality teaching through them. Learning to ride is so expensive, it's worth exploring all ways of getting the most useful lessons possible.
Grajo
Well-Known Member
To everyone,. you would certainly be feeling the same as me if it were the other way round. You do not understand deaf people unless you are deaf yourself... .. not deafened or going deaf by old age.
Deaf people have better awareness around than those to can hear, and that's including sitting on a horse - or if the "spook" (body language never lies)
Deaf people have better awareness around than those to can hear, and that's including sitting on a horse - or if the "spook" (body language never lies)
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
No, it isn't, it's a safety issue. Don't get chippy, it won't help.
It's much better that a riding school turns you down as a client because they do not think that they can instruct you in a way that is safe, than it accepts you in a gung ho fashion and you have a nasty accident.
I'd be thinking that, for a lesson a for a profoundly deaf person, that at least a second responsible adult should present throughout as an assistant to step in rapidly if things get too lively.
So this, as suggested many times on here, is where the RDA comes into it. I have helped a lot with RDA in the past. They have huge experience in helping people with significant challenges to ride.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
There’s an RDA group at Shedield. You could book a one off lesson and see how it compares.
The Xmas Furry
🦄 🦄
I absolutelty agree.
Grajo, I have taught deaf persons for a few years in the past. This situation is not suitable for teaching a deaf rider in once they are riding independently. Yes, its ok for leading rein as a suitable adult on the ground would have control of the horse, but not off lead.
I would not say that this is discriminatory but sensible advice on their behalf and will be covered by their health and safety regulations.
Teaching the deaf is very challenging but also very rewarding (and occasionally terrifying when your rider gets in a pickle on a BE course with a headstrong horse!).
However, there are some situations where a completely deaf person on a horse that isn't restrained, can end up in an unsuitable situation.
I'd take teapots advice. Good luck
ihatework
Well-Known Member
No you are right, many of us don’t truely understand deaf people.
But you are on a forum where there are experienced HORSE people.
Much of what you are experiencing at the moment is completely normal for a keen novice desperate to learn. Horse riding is difficult and frustrating for everyone. You have an extra challenge to add to the equation.
You have had a lot of experienced people give you considered support and opinions - it’s up to you whether you wish to try and understand their perspectives
teapot
Well-Known Member
Grajo, if that was the case, you'd be able to control the horse you're currently riding and react instinctively to what's happening.
Sadly, and with the best will in the world, like a lot of novices, you unfortunately haven't quite fully understood the mountainous task the hobby you have embarked on truly is. I have watched novices out of my window for years plopping off the sides of steady RS ponies - innocuous falls really - because they don't know enough or are not quick enough to spot the ear twitch, slight change in stride pattern, dip of the shoulder etc. Horse riding is a subtle art.
I have offered you my advice both on threads and by pm, of yards I know personally, and also from the perspective of management. Making sure clients, staff AND horses, yes all three, are safe in every single situation is what we do, what we're trained to do. Why? Because we have a duty of care, we have five figure insurance premiums to pay annually, we have reputations, and professional approvals to maintain. We simply cannot take on any client, on any horse without considering every single detail first. I speak from experience of sadly having to explain to a family that the yard/set up was not suitable for one of their children due to some very complex health issues and disabilities. It wasn't discriminatory in the slightest, we simply couldn't do what they were asking without running the risk of something going wrong. A risk we were not prepared to take given it would have had an impact on multiple other clients, staff, and ponies. Nothing we do is ever in isolation.
Until you realise and understand that every yard however big or small, cheap or expensive, is trying to keep you safe, and perhaps rein in (excuse the pun) your expectations of what centres can offer you while you are still learning the very basics, you will become utterly frustrated for the wrong reasons I'm afraid, and in the process bad mouth yards incorrectly and unjustifiably.
I remember saying on one of your initial threads your current centre would not be suitable, you chose to ignore that advice months ago. I foresaw this type of thread coming for good reason. I honestly think you would be best suited to someone who can either help you privately, or through RDA, and don't automatically assume RDA is not for you, some of the best riders I know come under their umbrella. I'm just getting the RDA South Regional Manager's contact details as they'll be able to advise better than I can.
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ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
You do not yet know enough about riding horses to understand that you are wrong about this. Their response was an explanation, not an excuse, there are serious safety issues in teaching a deaf person to ride when they cannot take spoken instruction.
You should, perhaps, consider why the riding school with a bad reputation for the quality of its training is the only one in the area which appears to be prepared to teach you.
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Jenko109
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you want it your way or no way.
Lets hope the riding school in question dont read this thread, or they may well refuse to teach you anymore.
Lets hope the riding school in question dont read this thread, or they may well refuse to teach you anymore.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I'm generally confused because the thread title was whether you should look elsewhere then when people say yes you give reasons it's not possible ?
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Roxylola
Well-Known Member
As a pretty decent, qualified, experienced instructor/trainer I know I'm not sufficiently able to communicate with cue cards or chalk boards. I can give directions that way quite easily, turn F to H to change the rein, walk now, trot now etc.
I can't teach someone to ride that way though. I'd have the same issue teaching someone who understood no English. If I can't put across right now what's going on in a way my client can understand I can't teach them all I can do is direct traffic.
I'd need a suitable interpreter - someone who could "speak" directly with the client and who understood at least some of the riding aspects. Or I'd just be taking their money under false pretences because they're paying for a lesson I can't provide.
Clear communication between trainer and client is so essential on both sides.
The horse snaking inwards for instance, in a lesson I'd expect to spot that before it became an issue and I'd need to quickly express to the rider how to block it. It needs to happen in the right moment because 1, it won't work too early or late, and 2, the client learns to feel the movement from the horse that preempts the evasion and learns when and how to prevent it. You cannot see, write, and read that quickly enough for it to be useful though. Anything else is glorified trekking centre. If you want to learn to really ride get in touch with the RDA and be prepared to travel for some quality lessons. Or if you have sign language try and find yourself a horsey translator, if you're going to carry on as you are you're not going to progress in the way you seem to want to
I can't teach someone to ride that way though. I'd have the same issue teaching someone who understood no English. If I can't put across right now what's going on in a way my client can understand I can't teach them all I can do is direct traffic.
I'd need a suitable interpreter - someone who could "speak" directly with the client and who understood at least some of the riding aspects. Or I'd just be taking their money under false pretences because they're paying for a lesson I can't provide.
Clear communication between trainer and client is so essential on both sides.
The horse snaking inwards for instance, in a lesson I'd expect to spot that before it became an issue and I'd need to quickly express to the rider how to block it. It needs to happen in the right moment because 1, it won't work too early or late, and 2, the client learns to feel the movement from the horse that preempts the evasion and learns when and how to prevent it. You cannot see, write, and read that quickly enough for it to be useful though. Anything else is glorified trekking centre. If you want to learn to really ride get in touch with the RDA and be prepared to travel for some quality lessons. Or if you have sign language try and find yourself a horsey translator, if you're going to carry on as you are you're not going to progress in the way you seem to want to
Annagain
Well-Known Member
I had the sort of horse that IHW mentions above - or one that was 95% of the way there. He really was worth his weight in gold and I'll never find another like him but even he would occasionally react to outside stimuli. The thing he reacted to most was hearing things when he couldn't see where the noise was coming from. The environment the riding school describes would certainly have been the worst environment for my otherwise perfect horse. The fact I could hear the noise meant I could understand what was spooking him and help to calm him down was helpful to me but in your case, with someone else to hear the noise that's neither here nor there. The issue is that in the time it would have taken for an instructor to write "take deep breaths, pat him and talk to him but keep your leg on gently (what he needed to calm him down) you would probably be on the floor.
I completely understand the riding school's point of view. I also understand how you feel discriminated against but horses aren't machines where you can flick a switch to make them behave as you need them to so they can't genuinely promise you, their insurers or the Health and Safety Executive that they have done as much as possible to ensure your safety.
Mary3050
Well-Known Member
Hey so just seen this . So I am a Para rider I am not deaf so I can’t compare. From my experience I know my rider insurance costs a bomb because I am disabled so it I imagine it may be difficult for a riding school to get this . I have also had riding school/ hacking places says I can’t ride with them . I was looking for somewhere to ride near our family holiday home . As I miss riding my horses while away . The first place said no because they couldn’t get insurance for me and was concerned about putting me on a safe horse as they are unpredictable . Even though one of mine isn’t that safe . The second place I asked said no due to insurance but when I said I had my own rider insurance they let me ride out with them which is great. I even took one of mine for a holiday at there place last year they looked after him for me . Helped me get on . Anyways
RDA’s are great places to ride. They don’t just have plod cobs and there horses are much better trained than most RS . They don’t usually do loads of kicking . They will also help you to start competing if you want to . They will also be insured so you won’t be limited and could start hacking out and things .
I know the RDA near me has a very good dressage horse who’s stepped back from competition who’s ace as I have lessons on him especially when trying to learn new advanced moves . I also know a Para Olympian trains there and a bunch of amazing Para riders . Good luck
RDA’s are great places to ride. They don’t just have plod cobs and there horses are much better trained than most RS . They don’t usually do loads of kicking . They will also help you to start competing if you want to . They will also be insured so you won’t be limited and could start hacking out and things .
I know the RDA near me has a very good dressage horse who’s stepped back from competition who’s ace as I have lessons on him especially when trying to learn new advanced moves . I also know a Para Olympian trains there and a bunch of amazing Para riders . Good luck
Arzada
Well-Known Member
Grajo I would like to suggest contacting Peggy Douglas https://www.bhs.org.uk/enjoy-riding...-e-bhs-stage-3-coach-in-complete-horsemanship. Her RDA group http://www.ridingatthebrook.co.uk/ She may be able to suggest suitable opportunities near you. Her son Jamie is deaf https://jamie-douglas.co.uk/ They are both in Devon
paddy555
Well-Known Member
Interesting, I'm in Devon and hadn't heard of these. There doesn't look to be much "kicking" going on in Jamie's pics
paddy555
Well-Known Member
Grajo, why don't you take the advice in this post? why not E mail the people linked in Arzada's post and ask for suggestions as to how to improve? you don't sound to be making much progress. Your last thread seems to simply centre around the whip. I expect you will learn what happens with that method idc. You will use it on a strange horse and it won't tolerate it and will buck. You will end up on the ground. How much better it would be to actually learn how to activate horses.. Probably waste of time writing this as I don't think you really want advice as to how to improve.
maggiestar
Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more. Years ago I nearly had an accident because my instructor told me to use the whip to get the horse (who I had never ridden before) cantering. It started bucking and I immediately felt terrible for him. It wasn't his fault that I was giving weak or confusing aids with my legs and seat. Since that day I've never carried a stick. I can imagine it being useful in limited circumstances but beginners shouldn't be encouraged to rely on it.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
I have to agree, after reading his various musings, that the OP does not appear to be genuinely interested in learning to ride correctly and sympathetically ?. He just seems to want to sit on one and to impose his idea of discipline on it.
As a last stab at pushing the RDA, there is no shame at all in using the RDA if they can offer you much more appropriate tuition, which we all think they could. There are a lot of extremely capable riders who use them. Some will always have had a disability, while others may have ridden ablebodied to a very high level (maybe internationally) before acquiring an illness or injury which means they need a different approach to keep riding.
The RDA is certainly not all riders being led everywhere with a sidewalker or two, though of course those riders who need that amount of help will get it. Many riders are relatively or very independent in the saddle, albeit they may need a little help with mounting, perhaps.
As a last stab at pushing the RDA, there is no shame at all in using the RDA if they can offer you much more appropriate tuition, which we all think they could. There are a lot of extremely capable riders who use them. Some will always have had a disability, while others may have ridden ablebodied to a very high level (maybe internationally) before acquiring an illness or injury which means they need a different approach to keep riding.
The RDA is certainly not all riders being led everywhere with a sidewalker or two, though of course those riders who need that amount of help will get it. Many riders are relatively or very independent in the saddle, albeit they may need a little help with mounting, perhaps.
FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
To throw another thing into the mix...I'm able bodied and when horseless chose to take lessons at a RDA over a "ordinary" riding school. Reason being, the horses are usually better schooled as have to be. The RDA horses all had regular sessions being schooled by an experienced rider, whereas I'm not sure some riding school horses have ever had that if I'm honest and couldn't be straight if their life depended on it.