Should I sell... How to make the decision?

metalmare

metalmare

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I am a reasonably confident happy hacker, with no great ambitions other than to improve my knowledge and riding ability and have generally have fun.

My horse is a 14hh welsh pony who has taught me how to stay on through various manoeuvres and has made me more confident when it comes to riding a sharp, spooky horse that bucks and spins, but beyond that, I'm not sure how much more he has to teach me.

I had intended when I bought him to give him a forever home, but I'm really questioning it now.

Basically, I've stopped having fun. I spend all my time worrying and I don't particularly look forward to spending time with him.

After over a year, I really don't feel we've clicked or bonded. I find him rude and indifferent (I know that's to be expected with welsh ponies). I feel reasonably affectionate towards him, but the idea of selling him doesn't break my heart as it has with some other ponies in the past. He has absolutely no respect for me and I've tried everything from common sense firmness and consistency through to working with a natural horsemanship trained instructor.

Also, having ridden around 60 horses, I've never known one as uncomfy as him. He has uneven muscular development so I feel lopsided in walk, he has a very upright shoulder so he has a choppy pony trot and he is so flat and on the forehand in canter I feel he might fall over himself. Of course this could be improved by schooling, but I think his conformation will always limit him and I have no school to work him in.

So I'm not having much fun off the ground or on the ground. All that's happening is that I'm getting frustrated.

Having said all this, I wonder whether I'm being unrealistic and fickle. I only need a happy hacker (although a more balanced and more willing schoolmaster would be nice as I do want to improve my riding, too). He's pretty, cheap to keep and I do like his liveliness as I would be bored with a horse that wasn't very alert. He isn't nasty on the ground, has never offered to kick, he just gets in my personal space and doesn't listen to instructions. Is that really the end of the world? Can I keep working on solving the issues as I have been doing for the last year? I feel like I've reached a standstill.

My concern is that he is a sensitive 13 year old, not particularly well schooled, with a muscular problem, who is very anxious and not a novice ride. I just can't see him finding a good home, so I think the choice is probably made for me!

If I could afford two horses, I wouldn't be considering selling him. Does everyone go through this slump at some point with their horse?

Sorry for the essay!
 
I am selling mine as I don't enjoy riding her. You'd be surprised how many people just don't click with a horse and therefore sell. It is a very expensive, time consuming thing to be involved in if you are getting nothing out of it! I have been trying for months to make it click but have finally given up!

Yours is a little more difficult as he is a bit of a tricky sell but I think you probably could find him a home if you were careful. Perhaps you would consider loaning him so you can keep tabs on him.

Thatbsaid, at thirteen he is not beyond learning a new trick or two. Why don't you take some lessons on him? You increase his chances of finding a new home if you go that route or it might turn out you can do more with him than you expected! Conformation unless really awful should not stop him being ale to walk trot canter off the forehand and if you get him on his hocks the trot will be less choppy. Do you have transport or an instructor or school you can hack to?
 
Is it the pony in your sig?
He looks pretty enough.:)

I think you should make a plan to really work on him for a set amount of time, no fun, just try and make him a better pony. Get some help from an expert.
Then at least he will have a chance to have an OK home if you still decide to sell.

At the moment from what you say, his future doesn't look so bright if you sell.

Good luck whatever you decide.
 
Sounds as if he just need some proper schooling, really. The musculature is a reflection of the work he is/isn't doing; the rudeness is down to you to improve (or not). If he isn't what you want and you don't want to/can't put the effort in to improving him then sell him on and go buy one that suits you better. I am not at all sentimental about horses, there is always another one out there, and always someone who might be more suited to your horse. Sell.
 
It is the pony in the sig. Yes, good advice both of you.

I have had a lesson on him, one flatwork and one ridden and I'm having the instructor out roughly once a month. I don't have transport, so it's a case of schooling as and when the paddocks are dry enough.

I think I could try setting some small achievable goals for him. In some respects he is a nice ride - he has a huge stride in walk, very free, great for hacking, it's just the unlevelness that grates. I'm wondering whether to ask my saddler to flock to his muscle development. I've heard of it being done, but I'm not sure what the current school of thought is on that practise. If I was comfy on him in walk it would be much better as we do some long hacks, almost all in walk.

I do feel I owe it to him to keep him with me where I know he's safe and happy. Although he is stubborn and not a very trainable character, some of his faults are because he can't rather than he won't co-operate, I'm sure.
 
Cortez said:
Sounds as if he just need some proper schooling, really. The musculature is a reflection of the work he is/isn't doing; the rudeness is down to you to improve (or not). If he isn't what you want and you don't want to/can't put the effort in to improving him then sell him on and go buy one that suits you better. I am not at all sentimental about horses, there is always another one out there, and always someone who might be more suited to your horse. Sell.
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Possibly, although I have been working on my homework from my last lesson for around a month now with very little improvement seen. All horses are supposed to be willing to please but I sometimes feel he isn't or that he has such a complex backlogue of problems that he doesn't know how. I am firm on the ground and he will quite happily back up / move over / turn on the quarters / forehand and he leads beautifully. But ultimately, I don't believe he truly respects me.

He had a back problem that came with him, inherited from his previous owner. When his back was straightened it cause muscle atrophy. I am working him as much as I am able to try and rebuild the muscle, but again it seems to build, then regress, so I don't feel like we're making much forward progress.

You're right, in all honesty he doesn't seem to be what I want and I'm not usually sentimental, but the moral debate I'm having with myself is whether my fickle 'wants' are enough to justify condemning him to an uncertain future. Does that make sense? Also, I wonder whether the grass really is greener...?
 
If you are not enjoying him then I would sell him, it doesn't sound like you are being particularly fickle if putting schooling work into a horse isn't what you are after. As for his sale-ability, he looks and sounds like the type that a confident teenager who wants a challenge and is having regular lessons would be after. If you price him right and are careful about finding him a home that suits his quirks he will probably make someone a great little horse. :)
 
I would definitely speak to the saddler, how can he improve if its sat on him lopsided:confused:

It could just be a case of using a pad with shims and some exercises to build him up.

I have a welsh cob and I love her to bits. She does have her welsh moments, and is different to my APH, (chalk and cheese actually) but she is ideal as a hacker (or more).

Probably I'd do that and school him regularly over in the short term and if you still feel the same in a couple of months, you will have improved him to sell anyway. You don't want to wait til the end of the summer to sell so I'd set yourself a time limit to decide.
 
DabDab said:
If you are not enjoying him then I would sell him, it doesn't sound like you are being particularly fickle if putting schooling work into a horse isn't what you are after. As for his sale-ability, he looks and sounds like the type that a confident teenager who wants a challenge and is having regular lessons would be after. If you price him right and are careful about finding him a home that suits his quirks he will probably make someone a great little horse. :)
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Thank you, that's very objective advice.

Ultimately, I'm far from the worst rider in the world, but far from the best. I'm a pretty average pleasure rider and I can do schooling exercises on a horse that already has a basic level of schooling and is interested in what I'm asking it to do and I can feel an improvement. I'm very willing to develop a horse. But I can't seem to make progress with this one and it's my desire to improve him and my inability to do it that is frustrating me... It's not that I don't value the importance of schooling. I think that because this horse needs not schooling, but reschooling, and to learn how to use his awkward body, he needs someone very capable to get the best from him.

I believe he would be a nice little horse in the right hands and if I loved him and it was just under saddle he was awkward, I would persevere. Conversely, if I didn't love him but he was a fabulous ride, I would persevere. I think the issue comes with owning a horse that is not great to ride and that I have no bond with.

I think when I bought him I set out to buy a horse and ending up buying a pony instead. I love pony character but I much prefer the ride of a horse and I think if I want to be hacking for hours at a time I need to prioritise the comfort of the ride.
 
FfionWinnie said:
I would definitely speak to the saddler, how can he improve if its sat on him lopsided:confused:

It could just be a case of using a pad with shims and some exercises to build him up.

I have a welsh cob and I love her to bits. She does have her welsh moments, and is different to my APH, (chalk and cheese actually) but she is ideal as a hacker (or more).

Probably I'd do that and school him regularly over in the short term and if you still feel the same in a couple of months, you will have improved him to sell anyway. You don't want to wait til the end of the summer to sell so I'd set yourself a time limit to decide.
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Good advice. I had the saddle fitted a couple of months ago and the saddler didn't think it was necessary to re-flock (he has less muscle behind his right shoulder than his left) but the physio thought it could be beneficial. Apparently some people think the flock shouldn't be touching the atrophied muscle though and that the muscle should have space to grow into. I've heard both opinions and settled for a wither pad in the short term, which was brilliant at first, but he now seems to have atrophied further. I think possibly he needs more work than I can give him in order to develop the muscle?

That's a good point about the time limit.
 
I don't think I should make any snap decisions, definitely. It's only in the last couple of weeks that I've felt like this and I was told by someone who I trust, who works with horses and who knows us both, that we've come a long way since I've had him, so I do wonder how much of this is just a 'seven year itch' so to speak ��

As I say, if I could have two horses I wouldn't be considering selling him, I'm sure.
 
metalmare said:
Possibly, although I have been working on my homework from my last lesson for around a month now with very little improvement seen. All horses are supposed to be willing to please but I sometimes feel he isn't or that he has such a complex backlogue of problems that he doesn't know how. I am firm on the ground and he will quite happily back up / move over / turn on the quarters / forehand and he leads beautifully. But ultimately, I don't believe he truly respects me.

He had a back problem that came with him, inherited from his previous owner. When his back was straightened it cause muscle atrophy. I am working him as much as I am able to try and rebuild the muscle, but again it seems to build, then regress, so I don't feel like we're making much forward progress.

You're right, in all honesty he doesn't seem to be what I want and I'm not usually sentimental, but the moral debate I'm having with myself is whether my fickle 'wants' are enough to justify condemning him to an uncertain future. Does that make sense? Also, I wonder whether the grass really is greener...?
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Have you had a physio out to him. My horse is very unlevel on a skeletal level and without a saddle that fitted had muscular wastage on one side particularly.

2 years later with a great saddler and physio he is a much happier, more confident and balanced horse. And a lovely ride.

I have probably seen the physio about 4 times, but she has done a great job at the time and her advice has been fundamental to the change in him.
 
metalmare said:
I find him rude and indifferent (I know that's to be expected with welsh ponies).
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Come and meet my welsh cob then, he's like a labrador, follows you everywhere begging for attention. He's for sale too ;)
The thing is everyone thinks nobody else would want their horse, but someone out there will, after all you wanted him didn't you? It won't hurt to put an advert up and see what interest you get. You might have to give him away, I think in this climate getting the right home is far more important than getting the amount people think he might be worth.
 
If you want a happy hacker, and he is not fullfilling that role, then sell.

I think too many people stick with the wrong horse as think it is the right thing to do, but
life is too short, (and horses too expensive!!!) to be with one that you haven't clicked with. If you have had him a year, that is long enough too make an informed decision.

Yes you could do some schooling with him, or spend money on dealing with the saddle/back issues, but utlimately it does not sound like he is the horse for you.

If you decide to sell just be very careful vetting prospective buyers and be honest about his issues. You may find him a fantastic home where his new owner does click with him and he becomes their 'horse of a lifetime', making it easier for you to move on.
 
how about trying a few lessons on another horse? you might (a) realise that your pony is nicer to ride than you think and / or (b) get some more ideas for when you are riding him - sometimes to get the feel of what your body should be doing it really helps to ride a level and schooled horse, then you can try and reproduce that on your own.

Hope you dont mind my asking too, have you had yourself checked out by a chiropractor? Many of us are rather one-sided - I am terrible - and this can affect the horse's way of going too.

If all that doesnt work and you still feel this way after another few weeks, then I would seriously think about selling using some of the advice on here. It might even help to have a go at writing your advert now, as it may suggest to you things you can work on in the next 6 weeks or so to get him a better chance of a great home.

good luck... tough decision but sensible to be thinking carefully.
 
Hi all,

Thank you for the further advice.

He has had physio, who did two treatments then said to work him as much as poss and that she would come back in 6 months.

Having slept on it, I definitely think I should at least out an advert out and see what response I get. As someone said, he could be someone else's dream horse and life is too short. I could have ridden this morning and actually chose not to :-(

I will draft an advert in a bit and perhaps get some second opinions on here.
 
metalmare said:
Having slept on it, I definitely think I should at least out an advert out and see what response I get. As someone said, he could be someone else's dream horse and life is too short. I could have ridden this morning and actually chose not to :-(
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You've got your answer then haven't you. Riding is supposed to be fun, and it doesn't sound like you're enjoying it
 
Horses are meant to be fun, if you're not enjoying yourself, by all means sell!

However, you can't really sell a horse in that kind of a state (I don't mean this in a bad way, but you need to sort out the uneven muscling or he might not even pass a vetting, and no-one will buy something that spins) so you'll probably have to put in a couple of months of intense conditioning and schooling. Who knows, maybe he will improve and you'll decide you want to keep him! :)

Everyone else has given good advice, saddle/physio is definitely the first step. After that you can work on lengthening his stride and making him more pleasant to ride.
 
I have just come back from a course where everything from dartmoor ponies to rather beautiful TB were working at dressage and doing some of the higher movements.

My advice would be don't sell, but set out your stall to improve yourself and your horse and find a new challenge.

For what its worth, when I had a similar bonding problem I used clicker ..... it really makes the horse bond with you and you have to be so much more aware of how he works so you can progress where you want to.

And before anyone starts thinking clicker is for numpties, my horse has a minor panic whenever new moves are introduced, so if I can, I train in hand first and them move into the saddle, using the clicker mean he actually enjoys learning new things. We are working on Travers now and hoping half pass isn't too far away. But when I started it was just to stop the horse being school sour and enjoy schooling and also to improve stable manners.
 
I had a quick look at your photographs. He's lovely! His shoulder is not that upright at all. One thing that screams out to me is that the saddle is too far forward which is tipping it backwards and will undoubtably affect his way of going. It MAY also be too narrow but as it is too far forward it is hard to tell.

I agree with Cortez that all that he probably needs is some proper schooling. Also, have you addressed your own balance and evenness? It could be that you are affecting his musculature. I think even if you are a happy hacker, it is important to get regular lessons to correct any crookedness even if you are not interested in schooling, it is important to be the best rider you can be.
 
canteron said:
Hi Canteron, I've love a bit more info on what you do with your horse with the clicker. I've got a dressage schoolmaster who frankly is a bit sour when it comes to schooling although i do give him a varied life. I keep wondering if I should sell him, only because he's so tricky in the school (he's fab in every other way) and would love to find a way of getting him more on side. He's a very bright horse who is very good at finding evasions if he doesn't want to do something. Before anyone suggsts it, I've had his teeth, back saddle etc checked and he's 100% in every way.
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The saddle in the pictures is the one he came with, not the one he is in now, which was recently fitted by a well respected local saddler.

I do have regular lessons, on a wide variety of horses and don't experience any problems. My instructor is happy with my seat and that I am sitting and riding evenly. I also have another capable rider who rides my pony and she feels the same sensations I do when riding him. She has recently done her BHS stage one, so she's also having regular lessons on a range of horses.

He does have a nice active stride, but I just don't enjoy riding him. I prefer the ride of a larger horse, to be honest.

He only spins on occasion, no more than any other sharp / spooky horse. It's not a habit and he can easily be prevented once the rider knows him, however it's the sort of thing that a potential new owner would have to expect to deal with.

In the last year I have had a new saddle, visits from the dentist and physio, groundwork lessons with him, ridden lessons with him, ridden lessons on other horses, changes of tack and I have put lots of time and effort into schooling through different situations and developing lightness and yes, he has improved.

He is much calmer, less spooky and more trusting.
He is more balanced and relaxed and lighter through upwards and downwards transitions.
He will work in a steady rhythm.
He has a good, active, swinging walk.
He is now really responsive to leg yield and will happily move sideways or turn off a weight aid.

These are all things I have achieved with him. He has gone from being an anxious horse who worked with his head in the air, needed a Waterford and was always on the verge of bolting, to a calm, relaxed ride who can go bitless or in a snaffle, with a relaxed head carriage.

But, the bottom line is, I just don't enjoy him at present and the thought of selling him really doesn't break my heart.
 
And I would say, that I do place a lot of value on schooling and can ride to a reasonable standard (balanced, sitting trot, weight aids, collecting and working on the bit, upwards and downwards transitions within gaits, flying changes, jumping up to around 3 foot) BUT only on a well schooled horse. To reschool an older horse that's set in his ways requires expertise and facilities that I don't have. I rarely have the chance to ride in the paddocks due to the weather and have no school.

I have regular lessons because I'm a big believer in self improvement. If I didn't care I would just carry on as we are thinking that was okay!

The horse has had everything thrown at him, including the new saddle and physio very recently.

Sorry, don't want to sound defensive, but I don't wish to be judged by people who don't know us. That said, I know all the advice given is good, sound advice.
 
Just sell him...you arr not that attached to him and you don't enjoy him. You will be free to find the right horse for you and he will be free to find someone who appreciates his way of going in a way that you dont. You would be doing the right thing....life is to short x
 
metalmare said:
I am a reasonably confident happy hacker....

.... Of course this could be improved by schooling, but I think his conformation will always limit him and I have no school to work him in.
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The impression you gave was that you are a happy hacker. You realise that he would improve with schooling but you do not school. But now we hear you do school and have lessons?
 
I posted yesterday about how it took me about 5 yrs to bond with my mare, I loved her regardless of her horribleness but I honestly think she wanted me dead at the beginning!

It was only moving to my previous yard that made me realise how much of a star she was, she'd get stressed out by other horses, so I moved to a tiny private yard, just me and my two to start with then the odd friend came and went! it was a tiny village, with loads of off road hacking and no other yards, and the last 3 years (of 12yrs) have been amazing! she was so much happier and finally after 8-9yrs I started to actually enjoy riding her!

She was never the sort of horse I could stick kids on at today was the first time in 3 yrs I've let any kids on her, and I can safely say she was perfect! I felt like a very proud mum!

So I would say keep him, work with him, if it breaks your heart there must be something there? you don't want to see him passed from home to home because he doesn't bond well with new people???
 
Honestly? If you've not bonded with him and you're not enjoying your riding, sell him to someone who will bond with him and find yourself something you enjoy. We have this very expensive hobby for fun after all, and we can't all bond with everything.

I perservered with my beautiful showcob for 18 months before I realised I wasn't looking forward to riding any more as I'd overhorsed myself. I took a lot of trouble to find her the right home for her, where she's had a fab time hunting, doing working cob and pony club. I bought myself a horse who was a step down in sharpness. I've never looked back.

I should add, you say "I find him rude and indifferent (I know that's to be expected with welsh ponies)." - not true of all of them by any means. My lad is a welsh cob, he has lovely manners, and is far from being indifferent. :) He's also a really quick learner. You just have the wrong horse. :)
 
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Wagtail said:
The impression you gave was that you are a happy hacker. You realise that he would improve with schooling but you do not school. But now we hear you do school and have lessons?
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I didn't at any point say that I don't school or have lessons, just that I can only school when the paddocks are suitable, therefore not regularly enough. Just because I don't have facilities that doesn't mean I don't value the importance of improvement! I have lessons usually on other horses at another yard where there are facilties. On him lessons are only possible in the paddock and weather permitting. I'm not sure why, yet again, this has become another discussion of the amount of schooling a horse receives anyway as I did state that if I was fond of the horse I would be prepared to continue working on the ridden issues but it is the fact that I don't enjoy him as a ride and I don't feel I've clicked with him after a year that is making me want to sell.
 
cazrider said:
Honestly? If you've not bonded with him and you're not enjoying your riding, sell him to someone who will bond with him and find yourself something you enjoy. We have this very expensive hobby for fun after all, and we can't all bond with everything.

I perservered with my beautiful showcob for 18 months before I realised I wasn't looking forward to riding any more as I'd overhorsed myself. I took a lot of trouble to find her the right home for her, where she's had a fab time hunting, doing working cob and pony club. I bought myself a horse who was a step down in sharpness. I've never looked back.

I should add, you say "I find him rude and indifferent (I know that's to be expected with welsh ponies)." - not true of all of them by any means. My lad is a welsh cob, he has lovely manners, and is far from being indifferent. :) He's also a really quick learner. You just have the wrong horse. :)
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Thank you for the encouragement - this sounds like a common sense approach :-)
 
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