Should I send this horse to a pro? *videos*

She's lovely and i totally sympathise with you.

If you didn't want to send her to a pro, have you considered getting someone out like Jason Webb? (you could google him to find out what he's about). He's obviously a bit far from you but there may be others who can help.. I've never been in to all that NH stuff, but with him, he really helped - he gave me one lesson and taught me how to catch the napping before it actually happened. I suddenly had a bunch of tools and tricks which I could use to sort things out. He's renowned for sorting out naughty horses by almost taking them back to the start - in fact, even quite a few pro's send horses to him if they are particularly difficult.

Hope you work through things and end up with a stunning event horse at the end :)
 
kerilli said:
Is she really a full sister to HT and BE? if so, wow.
she's stunning, and bright, and i think she's naughty because she's careful, athletic, and kind of looking for trouble. you do ride her a bit with kid gloves, if she did that with me i'd be growling at her and you'd be able to hear me 40 yards away. i don't hit mares, it doesn't work with 99% of them, but your voice is a v v valuable tool to persuade them with, most of them doing like being told off ime..
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totally agree with all of this - i used to have to be so careful with the use of my whip so voice was valuable. I used to wonder if there had ever been any axe murderers in the bushes waiting to get me, then they certainly wouldn't have dared come near if they'd heard me growling at her!! ;)

One thing I would be a little bit careful about is doing too much rein back when she's having paddy at a jump, especially if she's being a bit backward thinking - its something that the clever ones can use as an additional "shan't" tool when they don't want to do something. That's only imo though....
 
i cant see the video so cant really comment but seeing peoples replies she sounds lovely

I would send her to a pro based on my own personal experience - gadget was very sharp and spooky and i just was not strong enough to hold him so i sent him to a man (pro) he was all of a sudden jumping foxhunter and then went to Lola first and now louise pavitt rides him

If you were closer to me i would suggest getting louise on her as she is fab!! ?Can recommend showjumpers up your way if you wanted x
 
Ive been in this exact position. My boy was like this, we would go to Rowallan and do tiny tiny clear rounds, he would stop and react like ur mare does. I persisted and i mean seriously persisted (We had similar issues XC) And now he will jump round a NC/Fox. For XC he just wouldnt do ditches, i went out with a lunge line etc and he went over on his back 4+ times. He still has his moments, and will react exactly like ur mare does even if its something out hacking. It is less of an issue with me though, i am used to it.

Your right smacking does make it worse, but its frustrating as they get to the stage that they seriously ignore you.

I suppose it depends on how much you are willing to persist with this. After being ridden by a pro XC when my boy was like ur mare he came in back completely worse, and i wouldnt wish seeing the state he was in with jumps after it with anyone. You have to be so so careful with who u send her 2. She doesnt need to be hammered into doing this, she needs to want 2. There isnt a quick fix with this, sending her 2 a pro for a week just want work i am afraid :( i just wouldnt advise it.

If you want to PM me feel free i can give u more details on how long it took and how ***** it all was. I was in tears/broken bones etc etc with him. It has taken us 4years to get to the place he really should of been 3 years ago. But now i wouldnt change him for the world, he is the best horse! I went to Olivias to do XC on him the other day, and he was popping round everything like it was nothing. Had one spook at some black mats and then was away.

I hope you are ok!

SX
 
Charlimouse are you willing to travel a bit further? I suggested Heidi as she was in York but I go to a trainer near Manchester for SJ and she is very good. If you wnat her details pm me
 
I would also agree in that she is probably taking the P. BUT, just a couple of times, the way she clocked the fences made me think if she was mine, I would have a vet look at her eyes. Probably nothing wrong at all, but (others may disagree) she looked like she wasn't concentrating coming around some of the turns and then when she saw the filler looked a bit shocked. May well be a well used excuse she was concocted (sp?).

You said you had had her back, tack and teeth check, but have you had someone look at her eyes?
 
Very nice looking horse. I hope the attitude comes right for you. Out of interest have you done any loose schooling down grids with her and if so what happens?
 
Just for my opinion, for what little its worth. If it was mine, would be left alone from jumping for a few weeks and be doing very little apart from out in the field and nice hacking (assuming it hacks ok). Then back into small stuff ie trotting poles etc, moving onto Kerilli's suggestions.

If that didnt work it would be packed off to a pro for some work.
 
Have you tried tracking down her history? I'd be contacting the breeder and the riders/owners of BE and HT plus trying to email AN to see if any of them know her. Or try a post on the BE forum?

As others have mentioned she is a seriously nice mare with outstanding breeding and to have ended up cheap in a sale....it does make you wonder. Still, I guess it does depend on what your definition of 'pretty cheap' is :D.

Good luck!!!!!
 
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Bearing in mind she has probably already been through a conventional 'pro's' hands before she was chucked in the sales, I would send/take her to Jason Webb.

He comes from a totally different angle with these horses and will teach YOU how to ride her when she does this stuff; you will never look back.

He is not cheap but it will be the best money you ever spent (it was on my horse!)

What a cracking horse by the way and worth spending the money on!
 
kerilli said:
i would have the fences smaller until you have no probs with ANY filler. literally, so she can step over them. the wood filler with pole on top was too big to try to do from a standstill imho, i'd have backed her away, for discipline, and come again. her knocking the pole off and then trying to scramble over and banging her legs on it was a bit worrying to watch.
i'd have a tiny fence and a pile of rugs and a nice helper and put a diff coloured rug over every time, change it repeatedly and keep at it till she gets bored and just hops over whatever is there.
i'd teach her to jump from walk too, do loads from trot, and not canter to anything until she's no longer stopping and pratting about.
i think you look competent enough to sort it, as long as you are confident enough to sort it. she's not 'bad', she's a naughty youngster trying to find out where the goalposts are! the rocking back on her bum is naughty, but i wouldn't even class those as rears... .
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have to say i agree with this.. i wouldnt send her to a pro, because you will find they can ride her and you can't...
have you tried really teeny fences, over and over and over again, then having a coloured pole underneath, and after a few times, ad another one.. etc..?? good luck, looks like an amazing horse..
 
woodlandswow said:
have to say i agree with this.. i wouldnt send her to a pro, because you will find they can ride her and you can't...
have you tried really teeny fences, over and over and over again, then having a coloured pole underneath, and after a few times, ad another one.. etc..?? good luck, looks like an amazing horse..
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It honestly isn't true that pros only produce pro rides. Sure, there are loads of pros who wouldn't be allowed to do much more than pat my horse, but there are also those who will send you back a ridable horse, and teach you how to ride it.
 
foxy1 said:
Bearing in mind she has probably already been through a conventional 'pro's' hands before she was chucked in the sales, I would send/take her to Jason Webb.

He comes from a totally different angle with these horses and will teach YOU how to ride her when she does this stuff; you will never look back.

He is not cheap but it will be the best money you ever spent (it was on my horse!)

What a cracking horse by the way and worth spending the money on!
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AFAIK the OP purchased this horse at a dispersal sale of the Grafham Stud where she was bred so she was not exactly "chucked in the sales" and most likely had not been through a "conventional pros hands"
 
Thanks again for all the responses. I can't believe how helpful you guys are!

She came from a Stud reduction sale so I know her full history, and have spoken to her breeders. She has not been passed from pro to pro, she has purely been broken in at the stud.

As far as loose jumping goes, I have loose jumped her, she was fab, however before I had chance to put any fillers in the grid she had jumped clean out of the arena! Unfortunately I don't have access to an indoor to loose jump her in.

Over the winter I have done alot of tiny (slightly spooky) fences both from walk and trot, but every time we have the initial argument. She also had a break form jumping as I broke my ankle at the beginning of the year, so she had a month of hacking, until my ankle was strong enough to cope with being used!
 
SpottedCat said:
It honestly isn't true that pros only produce pro rides. Sure, there are loads of pros who wouldn't be allowed to do much more than pat my horse, but there are also those who will send you back a ridable horse, and teach you how to ride it.
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I sent one of my horses to a pro as I wanted to sell him, he had him 2 weeks and the horse came back so nice that I kept him for another 2 years. You just need to find the right pro. Also 2 weeks livery is the equivalent to getting another horse vetted if you are trying to justify spending the cash!
 
Agree with the comments saying that Pro's don't produce horses that only Pro's can then ride. The right person will get the horse back on the straight and narrow and then teach you how to work with that horse.
 
Charlimouse, I would like to say you ride her really nicely so you need to start having some belief in yourself! We obviously haven't seen how she has managed to despatch you, and having seen the way she moves, I can imagine it can be quite 'exciting'! What are your plans for her? If you plan to keep her and compete her yourself, then I wouldn't send her away to a pro. You are a really competent rider who needs some regular support from an experienced and kind instructor, who if necessary, as and when, can get on and help you out. She is a stunning horse and definitely worth seeing if you can work through these issues (safely!). I have PM ed you with the instructor I use x
 
So you've had pretty much every variant of advice . . . ;)

As above, a GOOD pro, working for you should, ideally produce the horse for you to ride. HOWEVER, that person should also be able to offer you advice - in discussion - about whether or not that is really the way to go. I've had horses come to be sold people ended up keeping and horse come to be fixed people have ended up selling. And it's not always the way around you might think at the beginning.

It's also not even really about being "better" it's about experience and literal hours in the saddle, not to mention fitness and practice. Good people won't even necessarily go about fixing the horse in the same way, as there are many roads that lead to Rome.

One advantage to sending her somewhere is it's a chance to break the habit. I, generally, like to do horses in their home environment specifically so that the owner is there and involved and the solutions will work in the ongoing situation. BUT - and it's a big one - it can be very useful to knock a horse off balance a little and tinker with the WHOLE management not just the riding. Plus, having the right tools and facilities - not just good ones, but ones specifically used for difficult/competitive horses - can make a huge difference. This can be anything from a round pen to experienced helpers to a selection of suitable saddles to a full set of showjumps to a lorry load going out xc schooling twice a week. Not to say that the horse will need that forever, but there's a good reason professional yards have and use tools like that.
 
lovely horse, but not being funny, why hasnt your trainer been on board?!
if they dont have the experience to sort this horse themselves, they cannot help you to do so. hence you are 'stuck' through no fault of your own.
she is well bred with an exceptional brain, horses like this learn a bad habit as quick as a good one.
id bit the bullet and get some help that includes getting on and helping you out, this needs sorting pronto before she gets worse. shes got you between a rock and a hard place and she knows!
if you cant find some good, pro help, willing to get on and help you every inch of the way, then yes, send her away, she is too talented to carry this on.
mite take some doing finding someone who will help you but they are out there!
the bloke that trains me now was the only person willing to get on my nappy 4yo and help me sort thro her issues! and i have every confidence in him. thats what you need!
 
If she was mine, and I was having the issues in the video, six months on, I'd send her away to someone good, and see what happened. There is a chance she'll never 'come good' jumping in terms of consistency and would make a D horse instead. You'll never know if you don't try though.
 
DarkHorseB said:
AFAIK the OP purchased this horse at a dispersal sale of the Grafham Stud where she was bred so she was not exactly "chucked in the sales" and most likely had not been through a "conventional pros hands"
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Wow thanks for putting me straight darkhorse. :)

My advice still stands; Jason is a world class horseman
 
Just to add OP you look a very competant quiet rider; I agree with whoever said make the jumps literally steppable over but I really think if someone who rides as well as you is still having trouble you need to think of a different approach now.

I can't help thinking that when she is being naughty you need to be giving her a hard time (don't mean smacking her) rather than sitting quietly though

Good luck with her whatever you do she's lovely!
 
She looks to have the makings of a super horse. I would send her to a pro but first I would get her eyes checked just to be one hundred percent certain. It may be the reason behind why fillers are an issue. Assumign that is fine and she goes to a pro I would be very careful with who you get to ride her and what details you give them about her "issues". The last thing you want is someone who will make her jump them but not educate her! Good luck!
 
Charlimouse - I just wanted to add that by looking at the videos i do think this is a fixable problem and I am sure you will get there will either the right instructor helping you ride her or the right pro. Don't lose belief in yourself. You are a very good rider, but one that just needs to find a little bit more of a growl in your stomach!!
 
I do agree from looking at the vids that she looks like she is taking the p but have you had her feet checked? Only reason I say it was that my old lad was doing almost the same and we thought he was being naughty so just rode him through it, he went lame about 5 months later and after investigation he had severe navicular :(
 
I don't like the way she is in front, especially after landing, bridle lame? or not right on both front legs? uncomfortable? have looked at the vids a few times and it is always difficult as they are not long enough but I think she's uncomfortable in front and gives in a does the jump to try and please you. If she's not nappy in any other area of work then I think it's the jumping, either she hates it! or more commonly there's pain somewhere. Also as someone else said 'why hasn't your instructor been on board?'
 
TarrSteps said:
I, generally, like to do horses in their home environment specifically so that the owner is there and involved and the solutions will work in the ongoing situation. BUT - and it's a big one - it can be very useful to knock a horse off balance a little and tinker with the WHOLE management not just the riding. Plus, having the right tools and facilities - not just good ones, but ones specifically used for difficult/competitive horses - can make a huge difference. This can be anything from a round pen to experienced helpers to a selection of suitable saddles to a full set of showjumps to a lorry load going out xc schooling twice a week. Not to say that the horse will need that forever, but there's a good reason professional yards have and use tools like that.
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I am/have been quite the opposite TS, I like to break the cycle of behaviour and routine, and I find that it makes the horses a little more reliant on me, I find with any form of retraining (either loading practise, stable manners or ridden work) having the owner stay away works best. Obviously there is time spent training the owner when the problem is solved.
Also to add I am not a pro, but I do sometimes take in horses and ponies for short term turn around.
 
No one has mentioned it - so I will

How much loose schooling with her have you done?

I know its time consuming to build (especially if you have to put the arena back afterwards), however its really beneficial

From what I can see you never get to a good forward going speed and you are looking down a wee bit, which won't help.

I would also buy the worse fillers you can lay your hands on - my babies will be loose jumped over my inflatable purple swan!! :D
 
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