Should I send this horse to a pro? *videos*

It probably is worth sending her to a pro as although you're coping very well, as you say, you're not making much progress. I think it's probably an attitude problem so a pro may be able to help. However, if she still doesn't make any progress would it be worth training her up for dressage and selling her on as a dressage horse? From the videos I can see she has nice paces and her trot has a nice elevation.

Obviously choose your pro very carefully and hopefully it will work for you.
 
I haven't read all the replies so I do apologise. I think she's quite lovely. Naughty but lovely :) Me personally? I would be inclined to seek help with someone I know who is good with horses like this. Not all pro's with suit as i'm sure you know but I also would be getting her out hunting I think. Really getting her forward thinking. Hunting can be fab for some younger horses. If not hunting then take the pressure off for a little while and get her moving out hacking, find a few logs etc.
 
I've PM'd you my tuppence'orth. I do assume that all the people who've suggested hunting realise that it will be 6 months before it starts again? I'm assuming you want some progress much before then ;)
 
charlimouse said:
Thanks again for all the responses. I can't believe how helpful you guys are!

As far as loose jumping goes, I have loose jumped her, she was fab, however before I had chance to put any fillers in the grid she had jumped clean out of the arena! Unfortunately I don't have access to an indoor to loose jump her in.
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Personally, I would box her up and drive however long it took to a big indoor to test her loose down a grid - with and without fillers. Based on her performance, I would then start making decisions about what to do next.
 
I've not read all the replies or watched all the videos, but I think you said she was backed last year. She's still very green and needs you to tell her what to do and give her confidence. She may also be going through a touch of the 'kevins' and she def knows she's got you where she wants you and she's in charge.

If she were mine, I'd send her away (or rather get my OH to ride her) to get over this particular hurdle (including, re jumping, going xc and doing lots of grids over inviting fences) and then have lessons iwth the person I'd sent her to to learn how to ride her. As others have said, variety too - it's very easy to focus on the jumping only for the horse to get a bit stale with it.

Good luck with her - she's lovely.
 
charlimouse said:
Got half a Vienatta left if you have any bright ideas!
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I'd personally have a bit more determination on your approach to the fence. Jump her off a circle and don't make your approach too long, by the time she has got the fence she has already determined she won't jump it. Keep your legs on and reward her when she is good with a big pat. If necessary trot her over a spooky fence the first time. If my horse shies at something I always make sure (where practical) he is taken back to what he shied at and is made to walk fowards to the point where he can smell/touch what he is scared of. My jumping instructor understands spooky horses and makes allowances for them. He lets me trot to a spooky filler the first time if I feel it is necessary and following that expect me and the horse to be confident enough to be able to jump the fence from a canter. This works really well for us and I appreciate him meeting me half way.

She doesn't look that comfortable when jumping - are you sure there are no issues with her tack?
 
Not read all replies so sorry
I dont think you need a pro. To me it looks like your a little nervous of her?
I think you need to drop your pedals a hole or two. and ride it into the filler with everything you have got (looks as if your holding back) then once shes jumped it let her walk and praise it to within an inch of its life. then do it again untill you can trot and pat good horse and round again. get that backside in the saddle and go go go!
Or dressage schooling, oh look a jump, good girl, dressage schooling. I like jump on X facing e/b then i can circle round either end then just pop over it when im going round, keeps them guessing.
I think you both look good to me, good rider good horse, but i think the horse thinks shes the boss??
shes completely gorgeous!!! lucky you!
X
 
I don't often post here, I normally just browse but she reminds me SO much of my horse that I felt I had to. She is just gorgeous by the way.

You only have her 6 months which isn't a whole lot of time in my book. I have my boy just over a year, was 5 when I bought him, broken, hunted 6 months and turned away and we are finally making progress. He did exactly the same thing as your girl does but also misbehaved on the flat with head tossing and bouncy rearing when asked to do something he found hard - for example medium canter to working canter.

I was able to ride him through his "make me" strops on the flat but didn't feel confident enough or quick enough to ride him through them while he was jumping. I did some jumping clinics with him and we got on ok. Isn't not about the spook or about the filler it's about the attitude, making them do something they sort of don't want to. If he got over the spook the took to running away after the fence.

I brought him to a s/j trainer who rode him and it was a DISASTER, he told me he was dangerous, brought him to another trainer who rode him twice a week (me riding other days) for 6 months and he turned him around. They had 2 or 3 huge fights, horse fighting, rider asking for nothing more than for the horse to stand still or trot a circle. But after these hissy fits the horse gave in. He has since thrown minor strops with me both on the flat and on cross country course but I can now ride him through and know that he is just saying "make me" and I can now "make him" behave. I have an experienced friend to help cross country and she has ridden through a strop for me. But the strops are getting less and less and he is progressing.

We're off to our first club ODE at the weekend :)
 
I think you are doing a good job and should carry on with regular instruction yourself. To be honest I don't think that was a bad attempt at all, she is big and young and at that stage they go through the whole teenage nappy nonsense.
I am probably a little cautious about sending them away in general as even if the pro manages to crack it this doesn't mean they will be perfect when you get them back and I think it is important to be able to ride them through thing yourself (obviously with professional instruction) you could even ask you instructor to have a sit on now and again and watch how they deal with the situation.
Very nice horse by the way.
 
I have watched all the videos, and in the beginning it does look a lot like she is just taking the micky, but after a while when she jumps them well she is in a big forward canter, on a good stride and she doesn't hesitate, when she has had a bad jump, she is more hesitant.
Have you tried doing some grid work or simply a ground pole to help you get on a better stride to the fence? Maybe if you did that a few times without any fillers, so she's confident with the striding in herself, and then put the fillers at the side, and then move them closer in the more confident she gets. When she's at clear round, make sure all the fillers are by the wings, do a round or two, move them closer so theres a smaller gap in the middle, do a round or two, and finally jump them with fillers completely in. It's probably going to take some patience but fillers are a problem that need to be fixed early or it may become more permanent. If she's still being a so&so, then send her away for some intensive training. Try and fix it yourself before you get another to, as there's no guaranteeing she'll fix for you if she doesn't get the same confidence from you that she does from someone else. Remember, you are a good rider and you are both getting to the other side of the fence!
 
I don't think thre is any harm at all in either getting a new instructor to come to you (if the normal one hasn't had any affect for 6 months) or sending her away for a while
She is DEFINITELY nice enough to persevere with for longer than the usual. The fact that she trotted past the filler quite happily several times when you were concentrating on the water fence, but then spooked at it the first time she was asked to jump it (from a long way out) does make me wonder about how seriously she is worried.

Echo Kerilli and the voice thing- my OH rides several mares, talks to them constantly, and they are far far more likely to behave if he growls at them, they look like they would nearly cry, but if he hit them they would just buck or kick out or other mare-y manouvers and fight him. Must add though that the voice thing has to work both ways, lots of nice praise when they are good and wee pats on the neck, but big growls and tellings off when they are bad.
Pro riders don't just make horses suitable for other pros- a decent rider should be able to help you get the best out of your horse, and if that means them getting on, feeling what is happening, and finding a solution which works then there is nothing wrong with that at all. Especially if it would save you another 6 months of falling off and worrying!
Is she spooky to hack or is it really just fillers???
 
i would lunge her over some jumps with fillers and put them in her field and let her touch them with her nose.

i would never jump a horse that size over such small jumps once its learned to get off the ground, at the very least i would put lots of poles and make the jump wider, a big horse can't see little jumps properly.

i would take off the tackle you are using and ride only in a snaffle and really do some VERY gentle flat work so she gets more confidence in your hands

she is not stretchng her neck when jumping and you are not folding your body, she looks constricted and you look too clutching.


she is probably smart enough to know she should'nt walk through jumps, doing this is undermining her confidence by confusing and upsetting her



if she has only been ridden for one year and is only 6 this year she is a baby horse and is only defending herself the only way she knows how, could you do A levels after one year at school?

everyone makes mistakes when learning, it takes a true horse person to realise just how long it takes to make a horse, and never to blame the horse
 
I agree with above in the respect to stepping back, doing a lot more on the flat and cementing a partnership before you press on jumping what is the rush?

If all else fails she has lovely paces and would certainly do well pure dressage. Not all horses like to jump this one may well do, breeding certainly says she should however she does not just be mature enough for it yet.

When I did start to jump again, I would not make the jumps larger though, I would use poles and would build up to baby grids jumped from trot. Only when and if she was very confident through these would I start introducing fillers to them, and eventually small courses.

Remeber she has been through a lot in the last 6 months she was taken from the only place she has known and where she was born, through a sale to a totally strange place, she has lost her security and confidence give her time.

good luck she is the makings of a lovely horse
 
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Baggybreeches said:
I am/have been quite the opposite TS, I like to break the cycle of behaviour and routine, and I find that it makes the horses a little more reliant on me, I find with any form of retraining (either loading practise, stable manners or ridden work) having the owner stay away works best. Obviously there is time spent training the owner when the problem is solved.
Also to add I am not a pro, but I do sometimes take in horses and ponies for short term turn around.
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I think we're actually agreeing, re the rest of my statement. As I said, it can be VERY useful to take a "problem" horse out of its situation/routine, at least initially.

If I'm doing a horse "at home" (provided there are suitable facilities) I will likely still change quite a few things - handling routine, feed, tack, work schedule etc etc - but I like to know they are sustainable and have the owner understand how and why it needs to be that way.

I generally like to do a good portion of the work alone (although some people want the horse at home specifically so they can keep an eye on things - which may or may not be a good idea - they often feel differently once they're satisfied it will be okay) but I also like to have the owner around again, so that he/she can see what and why things to change. I find otherwise there's a real danger, even if the owner comes for lessons, that everyone will quickly slip back into the same routine perhaps with a return to the earlier problems.

I will freely admit though, it takes longer, it's sometimes not as safe, and it's not always the right way to go. :)

So it's courses for horses or at least for situations. I think both can work well.
 
just to add to my post.

I would give her a break before I did anything, at least a few months.
And I like the hunting idea once you have confidence on the flat with each other it all needs to become fun if she is to progress as a jumper. And with a break then a step back the hunting season would be timed just about right in her training.
 
Firstly i would like to say well done to you for riding so well, and staying on!! She is a very very nice horse once she gets going. She is still young and has alot of time to develop, i wouldnt give up hope yet. Send her to a trainer for a few weeks and then see how she is. Good luck, she is a cracking horse!
 
I'm not going to offer practical advice, but it may help to know about my boy who is of similar breeding to yours. Krug's (my boy) mum would be your mare's full sister (JumboxGraftham society) and on his other side his grandsire is Just Zulu. When I bought Krug he was 2 1/2 unbroken and being sold to me as a dressage horse as he was just too spooky. He looked pretty special and so I went ahead and bought him. My aim was to back him myself, but he was so sharp and I'm not a pro (although 90% of the time he is a quiet as anything) so I sent him to a professional where they back big tb type national hunt, races horses etc... After 6 weeks he came home and I brought him on myself since. For the first year or so, I had no chance with fillers, but with tons of practice and although he is still pretty spooky at them, we are now jumping nicely round BE100 tracks as a 5 rising 6yo and did all the BYEH classes very nicely as a 4 and 5yo. He still comes into jumps with fillers backing off, so he needs lots of leg, confidence - and stacks of energy (having spurs on helped) and he then jumps it beautifully. The more he does the better he gets, although if we don't go out for a while we will need practice agains before we do a course. Hope this helps - one thing I will say, is do not give up, if he is anything like her relations she will be a super horse.
 
gem2buc said:
The more he does the better he gets, although if we don't go out for a while we will need practice agains before we do a course. Hope this helps - one thing I will say, is do not give up, if he is anything like her relations she will be a super horse.
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This reminded me of something I'd been meaning to post... the general 'word on the street' among Pros with Jumbo horses is apparently along the lines of 'ride it like you stole it'. So, even the top riders need to remember to ride them very positively and kind of 'light a fire under their bum' if necessary...
 
I'm not hugely experienced at all :o
but my general thought was you were letting her look and giving her the oppurtunity. I agree with what Kerilli has posted about the 'ride it like you stole it' you look as if you need to ride her more positively and forwards to the fence.
which I know is much easier said than done if the horse has a tendancy to duck out.
Good luck because she looks like a very talented horse with huge potential!
 
Hey CM she is fantastic - what other diamonds have you got hiding in those stables of yours!!?

I have to say I am in agreement with those who say she hasn't been backed long and is green. I think she is immature, maybe taking the P, but also maybe really unsure of herself.

It's a shame it's this time of year because if it was winter you could throw her in the field for a few months and let her grow up a bit. If she was mine and I had a few other projects on the boil like you do, I really think I'd turn her away for a bit. Come back with a fresh slate when she's grown up a little. Either way I think she's a keeper! I hope you keep us seriously updated on how she is coming along!

If you categorically can't turn her away then I think I agree with diddy fences and gradually bring in diddy fillers if you can make some/get some? Then build up from there.

But again, just a single opinion and I too am nowhere near as experienced as some who have already commented.
 
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