Should I wait for things to get better or sell him?

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SunnySide12

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Hi!

In short, I feel that latley I have been fighting more and more with my young horse (4). He gets trained by my trainer three times a week and with her he is angel. With me - he tests me for who is boss nonstop. I have been thinking more and more if he is right horse for me as Im starting to get tired to constantly fight.

He also has training issues from previous owner - when lunged he can just stop and pull you back (previous owner abused him with lunging whip hence reaction to being lunged is harsh). This behaivior also is hard for me as it takes time and patience to understand him and le-learn lunging.

At one point all was starting to click. He was improving, we were doing amazing in all places. Then suddently all back to square one. Without any reason. He just got worse aggain. Didnt even change rutine or anything.

Should I keep fighting on or should I sell?

I love him very deeply and if someone has sucsses story for me to inspire myself from, I will gladly keep fighting.
 
If his behaviour has changed suddenly for no apparent reason it's well worth having him assessed physically as pain/discomfort could be the cause.

Have you looked into other ways of working with him, perhaps with a different trainer, so that you are not being set up to 'fight' with him? Positive reinforcement (if done correctly) within a sympathetic training regime would eliminate the need to fight with him at all.

Yes, there need to be boundaries in place for safety, but they are achievable in positive ways. A constant fight should not be necessary, and is not nice for either of you.
 
PurpleSpots said:
If his behaviour has changed suddenly for no apparent reason it's well worth having him assessed physically as pain/discomfort could be the cause.

Have you looked into other ways of working with him, perhaps with a different trainer, so that you are not being set up to 'fight' with him? Positive reinforcement (if done correctly) within a sympathetic training regime would eliminate the need to fight with him at all.

Yes, there need to be boundaries in place for safety, but they are achievable in positive ways. A constant fight should not be necessary, and is not nice for either of you.
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Yeah I have called out osteopath she will be tommorow to check him out. Saddle was refitted 3 months ago but worth to have it rechecked.

And I agree about training. I will seek our other professional to help us
 
I am going through similar and have decided to sell my horse as I just don’t think we are the right match. She’s more of a professionals horse and needs a job to do , think she’s bored with me and I am just not enjoying it anymore so time to move on to a more suitable home.
 
We’ve been “producing” a young horse, bought at 3 just backed and for first year was ridden once by the trainer and once by daughter. It honestly takes time and patience and a few “ staff meetings” between daughter and mare every now and then as daughter practised the work done by trainer during her sessions. We did not lunge until very recently (the youngster is 5 now). Mare is still in light work, ridden 4 or 5 times depending on schedules with a mix of arena work and hacking. Any blips have been sorted by checking saddle fit and understanding that she is very young, is still growing and allowed to test boundaries briefly. The biggest thing is that we adore the mare, her nature is lovely, not a bad bone in her body and that helps if any setbacks occur.
 
SunnySide12 said:
Hi!

With me - he tests me for who is boss nonstop. I have been thinking more and more if he is right horse for me as Im starting to get tired to constantly fight.
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It is very unlikely this is what the horse thinks is happening. It is more likely that the horse is either telling you he doesn't understand what you are asking or that for some reason, stress or discomfort related, that he can't do what you are asking. A "stronger" rider or a professional can often ride through things, or give the horse clearer direction, but it doesn't mean an issue doesn't exist.

Agree with PurpleSpots, I think you need a second opinion on how he is being trained. If your trainer isn't actively trying to find and solve whatever the issue is so the horse can go well for you, they're pretty useless to you! I have unfortunately seen a friend in a similar situation and the professional in this case was pressuring her to sell (to him). It was very sketchy and you don't want to believe it of people you trust but just make sure the people you are paying to help you are actually helping you!
 
smolmaus said:
It is very unlikely this is what the horse thinks is happening. It is more likely that the horse is either telling you he doesn't understand what you are asking or that for some reason, stress or discomfort related, that he can't do what you are asking. A "stronger" rider or a professional can often ride through things, or give the horse clearer direction, but it doesn't mean an issue doesn't exist.

Agree with PurpleSpots, I think you need a second opinion on how he is being trained. If your trainer isn't actively trying to find and solve whatever the issue is so the horse can go well for you, they're pretty useless to you! I have unfortunately seen a friend in a similar situation and the professional in this case was pressuring her to sell (to him). It was very sketchy and you don't want to believe it of people you trust but just make sure the people you are paying to help you are actually helping you!
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Yeah so we sat down and analysed what could be happening. We will try for couple months doing just dresagge and trying us to be more confident with trusting each other. From videos we understood that I am giving unconcusiosly him sign stop but with legs go go go. Hence confusion. It will be fine hopefully
 
Midlifecrisis said:
We’ve been “producing” a young horse, bought at 3 just backed and for first year was ridden once by the trainer and once by daughter. It honestly takes time and patience and a few “ staff meetings” between daughter and mare every now and then as daughter practised the work done by trainer during her sessions. We did not lunge until very recently (the youngster is 5 now). Mare is still in light work, ridden 4 or 5 times depending on schedules with a mix of arena work and hacking. Any blips have been sorted by checking saddle fit and understanding that she is very young, is still growing and allowed to test boundaries briefly. The biggest thing is that we adore the mare, her nature is lovely, not a bad bone in her body and that helps if any setbacks occur.
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Oh that is so lovley. Thanks a lot for this ❤️ Yeah I think it is the same case for us
 
I know it's a small sample size, but I've known three horses like this, who where always "fighting" their rider/trainer and all three of them tested positive for PSSM. Worth a chat with your vet I think, especially if he's a WB or TB.
 
I’m concerned about your choice of words- ‘fighting’. Yes, I totally get what you mean and we’ve all been there but is he picking up that you’re ready for a ‘fight’ where your trainer is just doing her job. Also if his previous owner abused him on the lunge then perhaps not lunge him at all. Long rein and work in hand etc. Just a thought, good luck.
 
I’m concerned about your choice of words- ‘fighting’. Yes, I totally get what you mean and we’ve all been there but is he picking up that you’re ready for a ‘fight’ where your trainer is just doing her job. Also if his previous owner abused him on the lunge then perhaps not lunge him at all. Long rein and work in hand etc. Just a thought, good luck.
 
Your horse seems to be doing a lot for a 4yo. Maybe they are trying to tell you that. At 4 ‘work’ for mine was just to teach her the basics and get her comfortable out and about. She went in the school once a week, hacked or was led out in hand twice or 3 times a week, then had a winter holiday and came back into work in early spring of her 5th year. I didn’t lunge her.
 
I've had similar with my horse, he became 'unrideable' and people even told me to pts after the vets deemed his 'issues' to be 'behavioural' we've worked really hard with a chiro, instructor, and on his diet and routine, and the last couple of months we've gone strength to strength, it really does take time and in my case it has been an absolute emotional rollercoaster but coming out of the other side now I wouldn't change the learning journey my horse has taken me on
 
Assuming all checks come back clear ,I think you need a different mind set: try to focus on what the horse is telling you , and demand less. Try to forget expectations with young horses , deal with what s in front of you on that day , which can change radically depending on a million circumstances from weather, to stiffness, to what mood you and he are in etc etc .
Is he bored with school work [ and lets face it , most horses are] Young horses need hacking out , on a long length of rein that does not compress or restrict them.
Is he too inexperienced to understand what you re asking - and are you giving him a long enough chance to make the connections between aids and responding? When he does something well do you take half a minute just sitting there without moving to decompress you both and relax a little? Young horses need to be rewarded and reassured.
I m being reminded of all this stuff as we have just purchased a 5 yr old ; a lovely mare but she been has ridden with fixed hands to get her into a 'shape'. All that its done is tighten her neck and made her resistant and inflexible. Undoing this will take time , although its what my OH and myself enjoy , even in our dotage.
 
You've had lots of advice about the issues you've been experiencing so I won't add to that, all I'll say is once you've identified / eliminated the issues, there's no shame in parting company responsibly if you still don't feel like you're a good match.

I bought a new horse, I was so careful while I was looking, it took me 14 months to find him (although some of that was during lockdown so on hold) and on paper, when I tried him and the first few months I had him were great. Things started to go downhill after that. We had everything checked and couldn't find anything wrong. The first opinion vet thought it was just behaviour (basically blaming me for not being assertive enough with him), the osteopath thought some scar tissue on a back leg was causing problems and recommended treatment to try to reduce it. Progress was on and off but after about 16 months I just knew there was something up. His behaviour wasn't so bad that there was a definite problem (just one buck - never more - occasionally as I asked for canter, an unwillingness to lift his back legs, a dislike of being mounted and this feeling that he was on the edge of exploding that wasn't visible to an outsider but I knew was there) and other than the 'on the edge' feeling, it was intermittent.

I took him for a full workup with a lameness expert who said he was 100% sound during the work up but did show signs of the behaviour I'd reported so recommended spinal x-rays based on that behaviour. He had very mild kissing spine that obviously caused issues intermittently rather than all the time. He was treated and had time off but when it came to getting back on, I really didn't want to - it was the feeling of him being about to explode more than anything - I think we'd just lost trust in each other. I sent him to livery for rehab then to be sold (with full disclosure). I lost quite a lot of money (I could have sold him from the field and ended up with the same amount as I did after paying livery fees and commission) but I know I did the right thing by him. He's now doing BE 100 and hunting with his new owner and I'm so much happier with my new boy so it was by far the best outcome for both of us.
 
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