Should I walk away

[Olas11]

Hi all,

I've been a lurker on this forum for over 10 years now and am looking for some advice please as i'm feeling at a crossroads.

So i've recently started loaning an absolutely wonderful horse (first time loaning as an adult but have done lots of shares and part loans as a teen). I am currently saving up for my own and aim to buy my own within the next 2 years. Everything about this loan is perfect for me in principle - the horse is forgiving, non-spooky, good jumper, decently schooled on the flat, perfect size and age and just a joy to ride. He is a little bolshy on the ground but nothing nasty - he has already taught me so much in the 2.5 months i've been loaning him. I have him 2-3 days per week, yard is located 20 mins from me, great facilities and horse is on full livery so zero yard duties - it's literally a dream situation for me and I couldn't believe my luck at the beginning. Able to compete and have lessons on him if I wish. it's the perfect situation for me in the lead up to owning my first horse.

But, there are a few issues which have cropped up which i'm not sure I should ignore. Mainly, my concerns relate to the horse's welfare.

Bit of context - owner is younger than me (17 or 18), mainly likes to jump him, and whilst she undeniably adores him, she likes to tank about and pushes him and her limits regularly. Horse is fully paid for by her parents, she doesn't have a job/isn't financially independent.

1. The saddle doesn't fit. It is too long for him, and saddle and pad slips back during riding. The only way it doesn't slip back during riding is if it is placed too far forward on the horse. NB This is a new saddle; the previous saddle which was on him when I first started loaning him was broken (girth straps) and was dangerous to ride in and the only reason a new saddle was bought was because I expressed my concern about mine/our/the horse's safety. Owner has no interest in changing the current saddle and has stated that saddler has told her no saddle will fit her horse as his back is ''too long'', and she believes he goes well in current saddle.

2. Horse has started to develop issues under saddle - namely, he is very heavy on the forehand in downward transitions, his head flies up in trot-canter transitions, and he has started tripping in walk, trot-canter transitions, and in canter. Owner is currently out of riding for a month due to falling off him when he tripped in walk at the weekend. I'm not sure whether issues are due to the saddle, or whether there is an underlying issue with leg/hoof since owner has mentioned intermittent heat in his back left hoof (vet not been out to see him and she has no intention of calling vet out).

3. Owner is defensive if any issues are raised - when I *gently* mentioned the first saddle being dangerous and hinted at her getting another one, the response was "you can stop loaning him if you want". However, she did then buy a new saddle the following week.


Should I persevere? My heart is saying yes - it is SO hard to find a horse on loan at the moment, and everything about this situation was perfect until I realised the owner's attitude towards her horse's welfare. Do I stick around and try my best to guide owner towards right decisions? Or do I say nothing and continue riding? Do I walk away? I'm so torn and any advice / similar experiences would be really really helpful. I know that ultimately only I can make this decision, but hoping some words of wisdom could steer me in the right direction. I don't want to cause this horse discomfort by riding him in ill-fitted tack - so much so that i've started to opt to just groom him rather than ride on my loan days, as I feel guilty that he has something going on which is being ignored. I also feel like if I walk away, the poor horse will not have any days where he is not tanked about with ill-fitting tack.

Please let me know your thoughts.

 

[Asha]

I couldn't ride a horse if I knew the tack was hurting him/her. So, unless the owner was prepared to get a qualified saddle fitter out and a physio to sort out whatever damage had been caused id walk.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

If you're on full livery, is it a yard with instructors, yard manager etc?

I know on our yard I could have a quiet chat with the YM or livery manager and they'd look into any concern, or tell me if I'm wrong.

But if you cant ride because you don't have the right tack, you're not getting what you're paying for. I'd tell the owner to arrange for a saddler to visit or you'll be ending the agreement.

 

[Roxylola]

It's not your horse, and while you may want to help him you're only setting yourself up for heartache and/or expense. Stop now, there will be other horses

 

[ponyparty]

This kind of thing is exactly what put me off part loans in the end. You'd be better off getting your horsey fix having lessons somewhere and offering to help out on the yard or something. I know it's not the same; but honestly you can't tell this type of owner (well you can but they won't listen!).

 

[ycbm]

You sound like such a good loaner. I would walk away if you can't insist on a saddle change, as I could not sit on a horse in a poorly fitting saddle. I would walk away if the vet isn't called for the tripping, because it's already been proved that it's dangerous to ride him.

If those don't happen then I hope you can either accelerate buying your own, or get a better loan.

.

 

[Fiona]

Could you buy your own saddle? A Kent and masters or something adjustable.

Say her saddle is giving you a bad back if questioned...


Fiona

 

[be positive]

1. The saddle doesn't fit. It is too long for him, and saddle and pad slips back during riding. The only way it doesn't slip back during riding is if it is placed too far forward on the horse. NB This is a new saddle; the previous saddle which was on him when I first started loaning him was broken (girth straps) and was dangerous to ride in and the only reason a new saddle was bought was because I expressed my concern about mine/our/the horse's safety. Owner has no interest in changing the current saddle and has stated that saddler has told her no saddle will fit her horse as his back is ''too long'', and she believes he goes well in current saddle.
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/should-i-walk-away.783614/#kKpi7Jyh12ji4TiZ.99

With a saddler who states the above you are on sticky ground as they are supposed to be the professional and you are the the loaner who may well be correct but the chances of the owner going along with your advice is very unlikely, I think you may be best walking away before you get any more involved, the only way you may get support is if the YO is knowledgeable and will take an interest in the welfare of their liveries but not all have the experience or can be bothered to do so.
As a YO myself I want my liveries to be comfortable, fit and healthy so take a keen interest in all my clients horses offering advice as and when required, and sometimes when it is not if the horse needs me to help..

 

[gostelr]

Hiya. It's tough when you find a horse you like.

When I was leasing a horse that had bad fitting tack, I bought a saddle that was a better fit for the lease horse so I didn't feel bad when I was riding (just an adjustable wintec & breast plate was an improvement so not too pricey). I told the owner they could borrow it & use it if they wanted too & after a bit, that was what they did so it improved things for the horse I think.

Are you in contact with the parents who are footing the bills as well as the daughter who is doing the riding? Is it them you are sending the lease money to each month?

If it's the daughter who doesn't want to call vet out, maybe a message to the parents saying you are concerned horse seems to be becoming increasingly unsound to lease & you want to persevere with the lease but need an OK from the vet that it is sound to ride before continuing. Offer to pay halves on the vet check/callout fee or specify an amount you are willing to donate to the cause if you really want to keep riding the horse but no further financial commitment if something major is found (depends on the loan agreement you have I guess). This may put your mind at rest & you can be reassured the daughter just rides her horse differently than you would if the horse was yours but that's OK as long as the vet finds no health issues.

If parents are not interested, I would probably walk away - there's nothing worse than feeling you are making a horse uncomfortable or causing it health issues by riding it & you can't make the owners fix it when it's not your pony, sad though that is.

 

[View]

I'm another that says walk away. It's really hard to do that when you like the horse, but I have stopped teaching a couple of people who would not listen when I explained and showed why their tack was causing or likely to cause injury to the horse.

Of bigger concern to me is the vet not being called.

Walk away before you get hurt.

 

[myheartinahoofbeat]

I have loaned out one of my horses and the relationship I have with the lady who loans him, is nothing like you describe. We both have the horses best interest at heart and if she told me he needed a vet, I wouldn't hesitate. I feel for you but horses are an expensive and time consuming hobby and you probably don't need the stress of this one. If you keep raising the issue of soundness,it sounds like she might terminate the loan anyway and how do you know there might be another issue down the line.I would see this as a massive red flag.
As you have only been riding him 2.5 months I would walk away and look forward to the time when you can have your own horse.

 

[AandK]

Yes I would walk away, I would not ride a horse I knew had a saddle that did not fit and it is clear from your description of his behaviour that this is the case. The horse is heading downhill and will not improve unless the owner steps up and sorts out the saddle fit as a starter.

 

[HeyMich]

I would either call a different saddler myself, just to check and advise on fit, or I'd walk away and spend my money on a different horse.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

What an awful situation to be in; I really feel for you as I can just feel the way this obviously lovely horse is pulling on your heartstrings.

But, but, I can also sense that what you've got here is a Proper Little Madam who obviously knows it all and more besides, and she just ain't gonna listen, end of.

You have to judge whether you're prepared to take your orders (and keep your trap shut about what you perceive as needing fixing) from a spoiled little brat of a teenaged upstart basically, who patently doesn't give a poo about her horse's comfort or welfare and won't listen to anyone else!

Don't see what you can do TBH, sorry, wish I could offer a solution. Poor horse, deserves better than this.

 

[ester]

This can be the issue with sharing, no control when you would like some for the horse's benefit. Equally I can also see why someone might not take kindly to someone who has only been riding their horse a short while and without saddle fitting quals saying my new saddle doesn't fit (and it is possible a saddler has told her what she said, we've no way of knowing).

I think in general sharing is as much about the relationship between owner and sharer as it is about how nice the horse is and I probably wouldn't continue if I really thought something were amiss.

 

[Gloi]

I'd discuss these issues with the owner's parents rather than her, preferably when she isn't around.

 

[Equi]

If you don't feel comfortable riding him with that saddle, walk away. Now. Before he does something and she blames you esp as she is now off for a month.

 

[Trouper]

"Owner is currently out of riding for a month due to falling off him when he tripped in walk at the weekend "
I think this is the key sentence in trying to get something done for the horse and for yourself. Forget speaking to the girl - talk to her parents and explain that you had mentioned some of the things which might have contributed to their daughter's accident and that you are concerned that a) it doesn't happen to you and b) the horse's welfare demands that he has some veterinary attention. At the very least I would be recommending another saddle fitter takes a look at the tack.
If all this fails - then I agree you have to walk away. It will come to a crisis one way or another.
Alternatively - if you really like him and can find a way to bring forward a purchase ..........??!! But only with a thorough vetting.!

 

[Courbette]

I would walk away.
I’m in a very similar situation to you where I’m currently loaning a horse I don’t ride as I’m concerned about his health and tack yet his owner still takes him out. Is bonkers when you stop and think about it.



The longer you leave it the harder it is to walk away and there will be your perfect loan out there ?

 

[Annagain]

If you're plannning on buying in a year or two anyway and you really like the horse could you find a way to buy him? Subject to vetting of course. At 17 and being supported by her parents she will probably either be going to uni or leaving school and getting a job soon so is likely to have less time for him in future. It wouldn't do any harm to ask.