Should kickers go at the back?

[solitairex]

I was out hunting yesterday, (with the most boringest hunt possible - left and went for a hack with my friend instead!) and there were two horses that were kicking. Well one was a very small, very scruffy pony with a (est. 11 year old) boy on top, and the pony was a nightmare - he kept cantering up near the front and the little pony kept cow kicking/bucking out and almost caught my pony at one point. He didn't have any tape on, and was not warning anyone or making any attempt to be careful of the others - obviously he was young but you would have thought someone would have told him to go near the back or put some tape in etc. Another was a elder lady, and yes she had green tape in, but she was getting very angry whenever anyone got to close to her even if we were cantering around the edge of a field, fair enough we should be able to control our horses enough to give her space but it just made life very difficult with my pony as she was being an absolute tank and couldn't canter as slowly as the said horse infront. Now with the lady, I respect she was good in warning us and was right to get snappy as it saved any injurys and that she needs to teach her horse, but the boy I was rather suprised nobody had told him not too.

What are your views?

 

[Starbucks]

Think this is a tricky one! Sounds like they should both have had a red ribbon in, but people don't seem to like to brand their horse "a kicker".

Don't think people with red should have to go at the back, it's normally easy enough to keep well away if they do..

Sorry you had a rubbish day!

 

[solitairex]

Think this is a tricky one! Sounds like they should both have had a red ribbon in, but people don't seem to like to brand their horse "a kicker".

Don't think people with red should have to go at the back, it's normally easy enough to keep well away if they do..

Sorry you had a rubbish day!

It was expected; last time we went XC schooling instead! Roll on Taunton Vale tomorow haha! But yeah, I definetely agree that people are not wanting to brand their horse. x

 

[EAST KENT]

Anything not guaranteed to behave should have a red ribbon,be safely at the back AND bum pushed into the hedge when hounds appear.It is only good manners.

 

[stencilface]

Trouble is if you have a red ribbon, you are admitting your horse can kick and probably could make you liable for any accidents.

Why not just assume every horse could kick, seeing as they all have potential too

 

[Ditchjumper2]

Anything not guaranteed to behave should have a red ribbon,be safely at the back AND bum pushed into the hedge when hounds appear.It is only good manners.

Hear, hear I quite agree!!! Was out yesterday and my chap who never kicks was a bit excited and kept bucking, so I kept him to the back til he settled....easy!

 

[EAST KENT]

Far better to "admit it" than injure another horse/rider or far worse a HOUND,the ultimate crime.It is up to you to have manners and consideration for others.

 

[solitairex]

Exactly EK. It seriously fustrates me, it was a Childrens Meet aswell so they should have been teaching the children, all the field master did was smoke!

 

[Millyard Rejects]

Hunted a mare a few years ago-total nightmare(no pun intended) would fly kick and buck if anyone got too close on their horses. Happily put ribbon in her tail and often told people to stay clear of the old sod! However this mare was a saint when hounds ran around her legs and went on to have a good time as whips horse. She just hated been behind and missing the action!

Kids meets are agreat idea except....they are not usually the kids of any of the hunt staff and they dont like to be seen to be telling kids off when they are introducing them to hunting? But a quiet word from staff to a parent or even an older child to pass on the requirements. There is also the possibility the little pony was feeling a tad fresh from been stabled over christmas with the rubbish weather and wasnt its normal quiet trusted self! Havent we all had a pony or horse like that?

 

[Farma]

My mare kicks so I wear a notice on my back everywhere we go & have red ribbon - do people take notice -NO!!!! I know I have done everything in my power to warn people so my feeling is if their horse gets kicked its their fault.

 

[Doormouse]

Agree with EK completely about horses that kick and hounds, very very important to make sure any horses bum is turned away from hounds no matter how much you trust them, in the field they can be taken by surprise and just a tickle from a hounds stern could aggravate a horse and it could kick out.
I would personally think that someone from the hunt should have noticed this boy and just gently explained to him that he should perhaps put on a red ribbon in future and explain why etc
An adult with a green ribbon (indicating young horse) should not have been out at a children's meet, adults out should be helpers only and you cannot help children on a young horse. Had it been on a normal day she should have been at the back because IMO young horses should not be at the front and surrounded by other horses until they are confident.

 

[lauraandjack]

My horse has been kicked 3 times this season, each time he has been quietly minding his own business. Once was when we were cantering along, side by side (not too close) to another horse - in all honesty I was lucky it hit the muscle of his shoulder and not my shin 6 inches further back or I'd have had a broken leg......... Said horse actually squared up and lashed out at him in canter!

I do think that if you have a horse that is at all untrustworthy with other horses or hounds, then it is your job to warn others by wearing a red ribbon, and keep your horse the hell out of the way. If your horse doesn't like others coming up behind it, then you need to be at the back! Especially at a children's meet, you cannot guarantee that those behind you are in as much control as they perhaps should be!

One kick can end a horse's life, those who ride a kicker and refuse to wear a red ribbon and/or be courteous should think how they would feel if it was their horse that had to be shot because it had been kicked and broken a leg.

 

[RunToEarth]

Whilst I agree kickers should be more aware of where they put themselves in the field, I also think it is worth mentioning that if you decide to use someones horse's bottom as a form of stopping, or get too close to the horse in front of you, you should expect to get kicked, regardless of whether it has a ribbon in or not, all horses will kick if you get too close.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I have a horse that doesnt kick but he gets a red ribbon anyways but do people take a blind bit of notice NOOOOO!!!! It pi$$es me off bigstyle. I have had his back legs STOOD on by a big hunter whos rider didnt know his @ss from his elbow and had rented the horse for the day, he tried to use my 14.3hh horses butt as breaks for his 17hh ID type, needless to say it didnt work.

I also have a mare who didnt kick out in company but again will wear a red ribbon as she bounces about a bit and gets strong, the only way to keep her happy is to have her up front out to one side and it keeps her from having a paddy and POTENTIALLY kicking out.

People do need to use the ribbons but people ALSO need to take heed. If i have a ribbon in my horses tail and he/she kicks anouther horse then I am not taking responsibility for it as you were warned.

Nikki xx

 

[RunToEarth]

I have a horse that doesnt kick but he gets a red ribbon anyways but do people take a blind bit of notice NOOOOO!!!! It pi$$es me off bigstyle. I have had his back legs STOOD on by a big hunter whos rider didnt know his @ss from his elbow and had rented the horse for the day, he tried to use my 14.3hh horses butt as breaks for his 17hh ID type, needless to say it didnt work.

I'm sorry, I don't think you can stick a red ribbon in its tail and expect everyone else to avoid you at all costs, if your horse kicks, keep it at the back.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I'm sorry, I don't think you can stick a red ribbon in its tail and expect everyone else to avoid you at all costs, if your horse kicks, keep it at the back.

Well I have warned you as i sees it; i tend to keep my horses off to one side not slap bang in the middle (in my post above) so if you have came out to the side to me and still get behind my your there at your own choice so as far as I am concerned if my horse kicks yours its your look out. They havent done yet in all the times they have been in company but there is always a first time.

If you have had your horses butt used as breaks and had the vet bills for it then you might be a bit more sympathetic to where i am coming from. I take the precautions or ribbons and placing my horse to the side everything else is on the other rider.

 

[HLOEquestrian]

My mare does not kick but bucks so whenever I go hunting I put a red ribbon on her, just means that I cannot be blamed for people's stupidness in going up the back of her, they can't say I didn't warn them!

 

[RunToEarth]

If you have had your horses butt used as breaks and had the vet bills for it then you might be a bit more sympathetic to where i am coming from. I take the precautions or ribbons and placing my horse to the side everything else is on the other rider.

If you read my first post I actually did say that I don't think anyone should be that close up someone's bum.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

If you read my first post I actually did say that I don't think anyone should be that close up someone's bum.

I wasnt responding to that post just the one where you quoted me. If I was able to keep my horses at the back then they would be there, unfortuanately i cant so off to one side suits us all. I am not endangering anyone and my horses arent pulling my arms out their sockets

 

[Dogstar]

I am sure I was always taught that a confirmed kicker should not be taken hunting, it is just too dangerous. And a red ribbon for anything that even might kick occasionally. Plus a seriously smacked bottom for anything that does dare to kick.

 

[fleabittengrey]

As a kicker you have a responsibilty to keep your horse from potential of kicking others - so DON'T ride behind the fieldmaster or in any crowd of horses. It infuriates me to see red ribbons in places where you can't help but get near them (becuase at some points in a day it is impossible to keep 5 feet from everyone else!) - I do think that some people feel a red ribbon absolves them from any responsibility or guilt!

That said - other riders need to respect them too and if someone is stupid enough to crowd your horse with a red ribbon, tut at them and move away for your own safety, might be an inconvenience but not worth the risk.

 

[AmyMay]

Kickers shouldn't be out - full stop.

 

[sleepingdragon10]

Kickers shouldn't be out - full stop.

That rules Lukey out then

 

[AmyMay]

That rules Lukey out then

 

[Daddy_Long_Legs]

I don't think that kickers shouldn't be out be out as long as the rider keeps the horse down the back and doesn't put the horse in situations where it is going to be surrounded by horses ie standing at a covert.

I was out on Saturday on a friends horse I've hunted him twice this season and he hasn't kicked but today he decided that whilst standing at a covert and we were in the middle of a few horses and he kicked out and unfortunately made contact, luckily I know the girl quite well and there was no hard feelings but her immediate reaction was to shout at me and insisted I go to the back. Which is absolutely fair enough and I was actually in the process of doing it. I gave him a few hefty smacks aswell but the bugger then spent all day kicking at nothing but only when we were standing around. The annoying thing was that I was more aware of people around me and that people seemed to have no problem using other horses as brakes. I spent the rest of the day at the back of the hunt and I've no problem doing that and I wish that other people on horses who even kick the odd time would go to the back and take responsibility of their horse.

 

[RunToEarth]

I don't think that kickers shouldn't be out be out as long as the rider keeps the horse down the back and doesn't put the horse in situations where it is going to be surrounded by horses ie standing at a covert.

I was out on Saturday on a friends horse I've hunted him twice this season and he hasn't kicked but today he decided that whilst standing at a covert and we were in the middle of a few horses and he kicked out and unfortunately made contact, luckily I know the girl quite well and there was no hard feelings but her immediate reaction was to shout at me and insisted I go to the back. Which is absolutely fair enough and I was actually in the process of doing it. I gave him a few hefty smacks aswell but the bugger then spent all day kicking at nothing but only when we were standing around. The annoying thing was that I was more aware of people around me and that people seemed to have no problem using other horses as brakes. I spent the rest of the day at the back of the hunt and I've no problem doing that and I wish that other people on horses who even kick the odd time would go to the back and take responsibility of their horse.

See, I would hate this. I've never had a horse that kicks, but seem to spend a lot of time avaoiding horses with ribbons in their tails, or horses that have just decided to start booting everything- I'm sorry but when I bring a well mannered horse out hunting, why should I spend my day avoiding ones that kick?

 

[Daddy_Long_Legs]

I think you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick! I was saying that kickers should be at the back and take responsibility and they shouldn't be in the 'throng'.

When I realised the horse I was on kicked I took him straight to the back and avoided everyone but I know there are one or two people in our hunt whose horses do kick out the odd time and no one says anything to them.

 

[feefeeb28]

Definately keep kickers at the back, green tape on green horses. It's only good manners and common sense!

 

[AFlapjack]

I was out hunting yesterday and there was a horse that had its tail plaited up completely (so just dock length... not sure what you call that?) but it had three different strips of red tape which made it easy to see and so everyone stayed clear. HOWEVER, when we stopped at one point the rider rode around me and parked her horse straight in front!! I could see the horse getting grumpy and flattening ears/swishing tail so I immediately moved.

 

[marmalade76]

Once out bloodhounding, we had just left the meet and were trotting along a lane. I was up near the front but in front of me, although not directly was a girl who kept turning and waving the folks behind her away, saying that her horse would kick if they got too close. Someone asked why she didn't have a ribbon on it, and her reply was that she didn't need one if other horses didn't get too close And she was right behing the fieldmaster!

I agree that those who have horses that are confirmed kicker should stay at the back and out of the way when at the meet, etc, it is simply not fair to everyone else to do otherwise.

And OP, there was a young boy and pony combo out last time I went out hunting that sounded exactly the same - pony far too big for the boy, totally over-horsed, no control at all, pony kept pushing to the front and kicked out several times!