Should novices be allowed to buy horses?

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FinellaGlen

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On HHO I have always noticed a lot of criticism of "numpties" and "novices" with the common assumption that these are interchangeable terms. I realise that not everyone feels like this but there is definitely a strong feeling amongst some members that other people (although presumably not themselves?) should have to pass an exam before they are allowed to buy a horse.

I have been around various yards over the years and yet I have to admit that I have never actually seen many of these numpty novices making a hash of caring for their horses. In fact, all the novices I know, myself included, have been postively eager to seek knowledge from other more experienced horse people both before purchasing our horses and in the early weeks, months and even years of caring for them.

I am not stupid and I do realise that there must be some numpty novices about, I just wonder if the problem is as widespread as some people believe and whether these so called numpty novices would actually take any proposed horse ownership exam unless it were manadatory? I can't honestly see how it could be made compulsory and surely it would only be fair if existing horse owners had to pass it too to prove that they really had as much knowledge as they professed to have?

Finally, it is my belief, from what I have seen and read over the years, that a small minority of professionals in the horse world may actually treat their horses less than well, that some dealers and transporters provide less than adequate provision for horses in their care, that some markets contain distressed horses and that there are , or certainly have been in the past, some riding schools who are not providing their horses with good working conditions.

I think that we should all work together to help ameliorate the situation of any horse that suffers ill treatment, whether that suffering is caused through the ignorance of a novice owner or by someone who works within the horse industry. I hope I'm not the only one who feels like this.......
 
I totally agree with you on this.

Before buying my own horse I part loaned a cob at a large livery yard and riding school. At first I had a very experienced friend who kept her horses there, but after she left, I was really alienated by the other liveries.

I know they talked about me behind my back, and thought I was doing things wrong etc - they were probably right but they never offered advice or pointed me in the right direction.

I don't think they could have really cared about the welfare of the horse - they would rather have gossiped and bitched about me. I think there's a minority like this, who would rather criticise and say "look at the useless novice" than gently offer some help.

When I bought my own horse I kept him at the afore mentioned very experienced friend's yard and I am endlessly grateful for all the help and advice she's given me since then (we're now at different yards and I still bug her with questions all the time!!
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I am always happy to ask for help and advice, and am grateful to those who give it...perhaps the difficulties come when people (of any experience and ability) stop asking if there's a better way to do things?
 
bex1984 - you sound just like me! I am forever asking questions on even the most trivial matters. I just want to get things right for my pony. My YO is brilliant and I chose her yard because I had agreed with her beforehand that she would give me all the help I needed. She has been as good as her word.

I still don't feel that I have a lot of real, practical knowledge but I am always willing to help out the other liveries. I led someone's horse home from a hack last week for instance because she had to dismount after a "wardrobe malfunction"
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I really agree too! I bought my first horse a year ago when i was 25, and although I had ridden for years and years when I was younger I had a break while doing exams and uni. I decided to do the BHS Horse Owners Course before I bought by horse as a refresher and found it really valuable. I also made lots of friends in a similar position and I found this really helped when i bought elly. I have found that some experienced people take their horses for granted and maybe skip aspects of their care, while a lot of novices are so happy to have a horse at last that they will spend hours making sure everything is perfect and doing everything by the book! i think it's unfair to condemn novice owners, as every experienced owner must have been a novice at some time in their lives!! Im just lucky to be at a lovely livery yard which seems to specialise in helping novice numpties like me!
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blondy - I tried to get onto a BHS Horse Owners Course but it wasn't running that term so I did my Stage One instead because it included a bit of horse care. I also read about twenty horse care books, got a DVD and bored my horsey friends rigid with incessant questions! I totally agree that everyone must have been a novice at some point, unless they were born on horseback?
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Well said FinnellaGlen.
What is a novice realy? I don't wish to give my age away but i have been with horses shall i say for 40+ years. I have worked in raceing yards, Hunting yards, driving yards, riding school etc. I have taken some exams but have learnt hands on from a young age. I would still call myself a novice. I am always learning and learn from the best. Derek Knottenbelt just one.
I do wish some new owners had not got a horse as i do people who have owned horses for many years!
I do remember a girl i helped. She could ride but had no idea regards horse care. She was talked about but no help offered. When it was brought to my attention i slipped in help. Just things like walking past when she visited her horse with a feed. She had been told to feed hers and gave it an apple.
She asked what was in the bucket which started us chatting. She was the quickest and most eager learner and shone! She went on to compete with a healthier more cared for horse than the bitches. O.K. she was not ready to get a horse and that was extreme to what this thread is about but shows a point.
I know of another girl also, her horse came to us as a rescue. She would pop round after and i offered her help to learn but she did not have a clue and did not want to learn. She can't even ride, and is agressive with horses.
To be honest it is often the sellers i blame. I am careful who we re-home our horses to. Some people think of the money only. Just before i get jumped on - not all sellers
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I think you will find all kind of derogatory marks from some people on this forum, you can translate ' numpty' into someone who doesn't share my views or do things my way. Personally I think the more dangerous people for horses are those that think that because they have owned horses for fifty years they know best, they will have seen more things but because something was done like that in 1927 doesn't mean it is appropriate today when we are supposed to be more enlightened IMO. New owners or riders IME are the potentially kinder people as they are like sponges, willing to learn and open to different views. There are big differences in outlook though between those who see horses as a pet and those that see them as a working animal. My advice is when you find a trainer or helper who you share the same moral and ethical codes with keep hold of them.
 
Well said LHS - there is always a new thing every day to learn, and we all have something to learn from other people. I think novices should be allowed to have their own horses to learn and grow with, remember we were all a novice once at some point in our lives and we relied on help and expertise to build up our knowledge banks, I think anyone who thinks a novice shouldn't own a horse is selfish. I would welcome any novice happily and love to watch them build up their confidence, knowledge and become happy with their horse. There is nothing more rewarding to see a beginner progress and do really well and see how elated they are when they reach their goals.
 
I don't think it's anything to do with being a novice - there are some novices who refuse to listen and think they know everything, but then there are just as many if not more 'experienced' people who are just the same. If you'd phrased the question 'should people who assume they know everything and don't need books/tutition/guidance be allowed to keep horses?' I'd say no! Nobody knows everything - different methods work for different people and different horses and there are new approaches constantly evolving.

That's one of the great things about horses - there is always something new to learn, something new to focus on or something new to work towards. People who think they know everything are missing out IMO.
 
Nope - you shouldn't have to pass an exam. Some people shouldn't be allowed to have kids or dogs and you cannot stop them.

IMHO the worst kind of people are those that will not ask for help and are not open to learning anything new. The "I've been working with horses for X many years and know it all" type.
 
The only problem I have with some novices is that they do not consider themselves novices!!! I have been riding horse for 20 years and have kept my own horses for about 12 years, and yet I still consider myself a novice rider. Im pretty good at looking after my horse but my riding is novice, even though I have ridden at affiliated level, I still consider myself as such. I ask questions, I use this forum, and my quest for knowledge is never ending!
My friend wont look at horses 'suitable for novices' and yet she is far less experienced than me. And she wonders why she has ended up with a completely unsuitable pony that she now has to try and sell.
 
I agree with what's been said above. We were all novices at one point and if everyone had written us off as 'numpties' we'd probably all have given up!! I've had horses for a while, and although I think I'm pretty good with the day to day care aspect, my riding isn't as brave or as good as it could be - so not novice with care but quite novicey riding. I'm always happy to hear advice and opinions from anyone, novice or not - they might have encountered a problem I haven't and be able to help with a solution.
 
From all the responses I've read so far I think the common theme seems to be that the horse owners who don't believe they "know everything" are probably the best owners of all. They are the ones who are willing to keep learning and to take on board other opinions.

I have ridden since the age of 11 and I am now middle aged. I have had several share horses and 4 of my own. I have weekly lessons but I am still not a good rider and all my horses have been on full livery because of work commitments but I still try and learn everything that I can about riding and horse care because it is important that I can recognise any problems and one day, when I wind down my business, I hope to care for my horse at home.
 
I have to say, i find that novice's look after there horses ten times more than 'experienced' horse people do.

(not a generalisation- just from my experience)

I have met alot of novices in my time and i find they are the first to call a vet, the first to ask for advice, they buy the best stuff, horses are treated like royalty etc.

However- NUMPTYS are a different matter..
I feel numptys are the people who know it all and never want any advice!

Personally, i class myself as a novice and i would happily consider taking a test if it was the protocol and alot of my novice friends would agree- however, i know a few numptys who would not!
 
I freely admit that I am a complete numpty !

The poster who said we were all novices once and had to start somewhere is spot on. No-one starts out as an expert, in any field. Even Mary King had to learn to ride once.

Maybe the most important thing is knowing your limitations. Don't try to muddle through regardless, because this is when things go pearshaped. if something looks a bit "off", or you're not sure what to do, ASK. Ask your YO, your RI, if there are no real live humans around find a forum or go to the library and get a book ! Just don't assume the problem will work itself out and pootle on.

You can't become an experienced horse owner until you've owned a horse...so at some point, virtually every experienced will have been a novice with a horse.

However, what I DO think is a very bad idea is a novice owner, with very limited experience of horse care, getting a horse and then keeping it by themselves. i think when you are learning you need experienced people on hand, not so much to tell you how to put on a rug or the correct way to tie a QR knot, but to help you with the big problems, like horses going lame, or colicking, or foundering. Even something like a horse pulling a shoe loose can be a big issue if you don't really know what to do (Take it off or leave it on? Is it so loose that he might pull it off and tread on a nail while you're waiting for the farrier).

I ask Cazza inane questions about Brooklyn all the time (its a miracle she hasn't murdered me and buried me in a corner of the indoor school yet). Basically, i don't want Brooklyn to suffer because of my numptiness, so I'd rather ask and sound like a numpty than not ask and risk affecting my Moose.
 
IMO everyone was a novice once. I must say that when it comes to cuts etc I am a complete novice and I go running to other people for help! I have been riding since I was 4, was put on all the nutcases but when it came to horse care I used to be clueless!
I am nearly 17, a black sheep in the family (No one else in my family has ever had horses so I have no family members to turn to for help) and my first loan horse when I was 14 was a 3 year old TB and I learnt so much, the yard I was at was amazing but unfortunately shut down. I then bought a 4 year old x racer and moved yards. The yard was snobby and bitchy and there were only 5 liveries! They criticised everything I did and were less than willing to help me and told me that I was schooling my mare all wrong. However a visiting instructor that comes over every half term says otherwise, and so does my regular instructor..
I am now at a differant yard ( I actually worked at the yard for 18 months ) and I know everyone there, its a big prestegious yard and everyone there knows me and my mare, they are willing to offer advice but don't stick their noses where its unwanted.
I would class myself as a novice as I don't have alot of experience yet but everyone needs help to start off with their first horse however I don't go around telling everyone that they have done it wrong because unlike the people at my last yard I realise that there is a differant way to do things..
 
Regardless of experience (how on earth can the term 'novice' be defined anyway!), I do think there is room for a licencing system relating to ownership of any animal.

If the passport system ever gets organised, then there is a clear opportnity for regulation.

I would be happy to take an exam to demonstrate my competance as a horse owner.

Same would apply to my dogs.

So much animal neglect happens because of sheer ignorance, not evil intent.
 
ditto, with my first horse my family were novicy (had loaned before and other family members owned). We listened and asked so many questions and hundreds of years later I still ask a million questions from horse owners and 'professionals'. I learn all the time still and will provbably forever. I am not afraid to ask question and never ever act like I know it all, not that i do of course.
 
i have found that as long as people are willing to learn and take on advice they are fine and treat their horses very well. i have a friend who was only riding 6 months before she got her pony but she was so willing to learn and even though it was on part livery she still wanted to muck him out at weekends and would spend hours grooming that her pony was one of the best on the yard! i also have a friend that is a numpty and refuses to take anything on board and thinks her way is the only way even if professionals say she shouldn't do it...she is now looking for a horse to buy and keeps going to see 4 and 5yo and cant understand why she cant ride them! i was riding for 6 years before i got my pony although i had loaned a pony before but the pony i bought was not exactly first pony material lol he was from a dealer who bought him straight from the NF sales but we 'clicked' and everyone was always willing to help
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3 years down the line he's my perfect pony.
 
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I would be happy to take an exam to demonstrate my competance as a horse owner.

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I think I would as well, becasue it would be useful to know what I don't know, if you see what i mean. However, what would happen if i failed? Would i have to give my horse back / sell her, or would it be like driving, and I'd just have a sort of "provisional licence" until i'd passed my test?

On a more serious note, it would be good if more places offered the BHS Horse Owners cert. i have no idea where one would go around here to take that.
 
Before I bought my first horse I had done a fair bit of very varied riding, read a few books and had no idea how much I didn't know. I was fortunate in that my first YO was a very experienced lady, i was her only livery, and she made it her mission to impart as much knowledge to me as possible. It gave me a very good start and I hope I have continued to build on that over the years

I have been riding for well over 30 years, and I still regard myself as a novice and I am still learning.

I have seen equal measures of grim ownership and care over the years from complete novices and very experienced owners.
 
as i am one of those who regularly use the term "numptee"

i think there are two separate issues here...

you, OP, have bought your pony..but you have also along the way, gained basic knowledge, as we all have/did BEFORE it came along..ok, you call yourself a novice..in alot of disiplines i would call myself novice..eventing/SJ..but that doesn't mean to say that i don't know the basic concept of those disiplines..

i refer back to "that" thread yesterday..and i've said it before on here..i cannot for the life of me understand why people continually buy animals UNSEEN/UNTRIED from certain websites..then when things go tits up, completely exonerate themselves from ANY blame.. "THEY" ARE NUMPTEES in the first order..
that type of thread really makes my blood boil...the "dodgy dealers" ARE well known..a little research via Google will instantly throw up information...

you seem to be a very well informed horse owner who is prepared to look, listen and glean whatever info that is available..as we all do..i've been with/around horses/ponies for 44 yrs..and i "learn" something virtually every week..

as for sales/transport/pro yards..

i can comment on the first 2..but not the last..

sales are fabulous places...MARKETS are not..2 different types of thing altogether..the former is well run..the latter is frequented by low grade sellers and low grade horses/ponies..i'm not saying a bargain cannot be bought at a market as i have and still do buy from them..
these places are not for a "novice" buyer/1st time buyer..the "faces" who frequent wouldn't be familiar...
this is not running down any novice/1st time buyer.....just common sense.

as for transport....as i used to run a commercial horse transport business this is something i know what i'm talking about..a commercial operator is giverned by many rules and regulatios that if they aren't strictly adhered to, then their wagon is impounded and immediately taken off the road...
i have recently seen 2 incedents where defra have put Dealers wagon's off the road for not having the correct partitioning...so things are beginning to change.

TBH it is PRIVATELY owned vehicles that shock me the most..some of them are truely dangerous!!!
 
When I got my first pony he turned into a complete b*****d and I'm sure a big part of the reason for that is because I didn't have a clue how to handle him and had him on working livery. He didn't like it and showed everyone he didn't like it. I took him away and went to a DIY yard but sold him in the end which I was sad about but it was best for him and me. Although he was a nightmare he taught me an awful lot in a very short time and so when I went to look for the pony I have now I knew exactly what I wanted and got it. I put my hand up to the fact I have very little knowledge but I feel that most of the time keeping a horse has a lot to do with common sense and if I'm not sure about something I will ask!!! So if that makes me a numpty then that is what I am. However I will say that I take on board everything that has been said to me about my pony and will make an informed decision on any comments made and if I'm doing it wrong I'll make sure I start doing it right!!
 
The only way their going to gain the experience is by buying their own.

Riding schools teach you how to ride riding school ponies, not pets and they don't teach you anything else other than mucking out etc if you help out around the yard.

Its common sense on how to keep a horse. As you have said above mother_hen you didn't have a clue until you had your own.

The only other way to learn how to take care of a horse with out gaining experience from owning is if they go do a college course.

Its like people buying a dog for the first time in their life and not having a clue. Can't complain about novices doing it with horses when people buy pets they haven't got a clue on all the time. They learn along the way.

The only way this could change was if people had to pass a test to have a liscence. Then you'd find most people wouldn't know enough to pass and would loose there horses. Would also cause too many problems with defra etc butting in.
 
I agree with everything that has been said here BUT I find that people frequently have very little basic knowledge, like of equine anatomy. You can't assess the significance of an injury if you don't know what is under the skin, where tendons, joint are etc. I'm not talking anything major but stage 1 or 2 stuff as you'd get from any basic book. I've seen several horses in an awful state because the owners weren't able to recognise that something was wrong. People also buy unsuitable horses. If you are on a good livery yard though with helpful experienced owners there is absolutely no reason why a 'novice' can't enjoy being a great owner.
 
I agree, there would be no way of inforcing an exam for horse owners they cant even make sure car drivers have a licence so not hope for the horse world.
I am have riding for over 30years now and was prob the most irrating kid as i want to absord every bit of information i possibly could and my family were all non horsey.
About 10 years ago i started doing the NVQ equine courses and after completing them i started BHS horse care home study course.
A few months ago i was talking to a typical i have been riding for 6 years years and know everything and saying i was doing my horse care course he started laughing ang trying to take the micky, i very calmly stated that as a horse owner for 20 years and with a very well run breeding business i knew what i did from many mistakes and years of studying and if i studied till i was 100 i would still need to study more as with horses there is always something new to learn or look into.
It is people like him that should not have horses as they are the type who state ah yes i can stay on a horse there is no more i need to learn.
 
I have had horses for donkeys years, BHS qualified and competed at national championship level in two spheres but I still like being on a yard with experienced people to run things by and get advice on problems. The more you learn the more you realise how little you know. My pet hate is people who should know better selling totally unsuitable horses to novice people, not fair on the person who may give up or get injured and definately not fair on the horse. Makes me really cross, seen it far too often.
 
What an exam wouldn't tell you is will the owner have EMPATHY
Knowledge is important but can be sought from professionals, friends etc, experience and kindliness are soothing for a horse, but when it comes down to it an owner that looks out of their horses eyes to see if what they're asking is fair is reasonable, thats the owner with the contented horse. Lots of experienced /knowlegable horse owners do not have empathy.
14 years experience has allowed my horses to teach me a lot. I think horses put up with a lot from humans, gadgets odd feeding routines, unreasonable expectations etc but they switch off and don't communicate with humans that aren't receptive. If an owner puts the time in to really watch their horse to learn the signals - I am happy - I'm worried etc, then not only will they form a better relationship with their horse, but with every horse they meet.
I have met a lot of people who put a lot of effort into trying to stop horses doing things, instead of working out the reason why they're doing it and dealing with cause not the effect.
Lets encourage novices to buy suitable horses and then support them by pointing to all the valuable books etc and advice available. Pony Clubs Manual of Horsemanship is a very good book to start with for dealing with horse basic requirements and a very useful reference for all sorts of things.
 
Couldnt agree more.Everyone has different intelligence levels and common sense levels .For those who cant communicate well enough on paper to do exams but have excellent handling and riding skills it would be a terrible injustice.The same applies to having babies you will always have some people with better parenting capabilities.You need pros to help you through different walks in life but they shouldnt look down on the layman.
 
I am so glad that I started this thread because it has been very supportive towards those novices who are keen to learn and to do their best by their horses. I hope that everyone who has read it will offer their help to any novices on their yard. The help may be rejected of course but if it is given in a friendly, non-patronising manner then I think plenty of first time owners would be very grateful that someone is taking the time and trouble to help them rather than bitching about them behind their back.
 
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