Should the countryside be an exclusive club for landowners?

farmers need respect ask nicely, offer to help, offer to pay alitte, then you may get permission but don't expect something for nothing, with diversification most farmers would listen, but also remember the dreaded insurance for you and them.
 
You can get around the after so long it becomes a right of way bit by making a formal declaration allowing temporary access. The public use then has to be proved for 20 years before date you make the declaration so effectively the clock stops ticking at that point. We looked into this when we were trying to by some land earlier this year (Got hugely gazumped by a development company at the last minute). The local Rights of Way Officer was very helpful in giving advice.
 
mon - I have lived in a farming community for 45 years now so I don't really feel as though I am disrespectful to farmers or landowners. I am sure that one of my farmer friends would have told me by now if I was being cheeky
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Thank you for all your explanations of why it is wrong for me to want to ride along one or two field margins on my pony.

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Correction - it is not wrong for you to want to or for you to ask to - but it is wrong for anybody to expect to have the "right" to access somebody else's land if they don't have permission.

I'm more frustrated that bridleways are being either closed or lost through lack of maintenance. Bridleways aren't forever - hence the BHS' campaign. Frustratingly, where one neare me crosses from one farm to another it has been closed, which effectively means you have 3 miles of bridleway, 500m of ex-bridleway, and then a further mile behind that, that is still open and would link the bridleway into the public access forest and make a lovely ride. It was a tad frustrating having to ride down and back up 3 miles again just to find that one out,
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My local bridleways access dept were less than helpful, but that's another story!
 
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Thank you for all your explanations of why it is wrong for me to want to ride along one or two field margins on my pony. I am starting to understand now that even if you own a "garden" which stretches to thousands of acres you would not wish members of the public to set foot on it

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Sorry that you feel so frustrated and peed off, but wanting something just because it's there doesn't mean you can have it !
As usual it's more of a "them and us" situation. The title of the post refers to the countryside as an exclusive "club" - it is not just a place for hobbies and relaxation reserved for the rich !! Those of us that live and work in the countryside are not all wealthy and privileged and certainly would not fit the stereotype of landowner or farmer. If a landowner/farmer wishes to keep his property private surely we must respect his decision?
Is there any reason you have to keep your horse at this particular yard? Would it be possible to move to another yard with better hacking or more obliging neighbours?
Ironic isn't it, I have over 6 miles of field margins open to the public but they are rarely used
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Naturally, I don't remember saying that I have the right to access anyone's land. I think that you are confusing me with someone else maybe?
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Just a question but do you think that horse riders should have access to bridle paths and field margins etc or should the only people allowed to ride there be farmers and wealthy landowners?

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From your first post it does read as though you do expect access to field margins
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A lot of these field margins will be ploughed up as various government funded schemes come to an end in the near future anyway.
 
I am getting really puzzled now as to why people think that I don't live and work in the countryside? I live in a tiny farmworkers cottage in the middle of thousands of acres of prime arable land. My friends are mainly farmers or farmworkers so thank you to all who have explained farming to me but I am fairly familiar with a lot of farming practices already. I know that your advice is kindly meant though
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Just for the record I will say once again that my friend, the YO, simply asked the farmer if we could ride the stubble field margins, he said "No"and we all accepted his decision but it made us sad because we don't have much in the way of hacking. None of us, me included, felt that we had the right to trespass and I really wouldn't want anyone to think the we are a bunch of late middle-aged vandals 'cos we're defintely not
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Sorry for causing so much upset on here. I will just explain again that I don't think that I have the right to trespass on anyone's land. I really didn't mean my post to come across like that. If I have offended any landowners I honestly didn't mean to
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We have no hacking, we are stranded on our own farm. The farmer who owns the next field is a nutter and has pointed a gun at us for even being on a PUBLIC footpath with our dogs (on leads) and there is no way I'd approach him for anything. The other farmer doesn't like horses, and the other surrounding fields have no set asides. So we stick to our own 20 acres and busy roads. It's a shame, but if the a land owner doesn't want you on the land, then that's it.
 
I would never ever trespass on a farmers or other privately owned land without permission, but, in my area there is miles of redundant pit land that is now available for all and has been made into woodland. For some reason though the horse tracks all lead to a dead end IE you can be riding along for a few miles, get to the end of the track only to find you cannot go any forther because it has been barracaded by the rambling club mafia
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. The other day we got to the end of one such path only to find we could go no further and couldn't get off the the trail either, a dog walking, anorak wearing couple were smirking at us and said something like " horses aren't allowed on here, you will just have to go back won't you" and stood for ages blatently waiting for us to turn back. They underestermated our gypsy cob and bloody minded arab, and watched in amazment as we got off and led our horses first through a very narrow gate and then down a steep railway embankment and onto the country lane that is two minuets from home
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. To go back would have taken two hours and our horses were tired and ready for a feed. Public land should be open to all non motorised traffic IMHO, why should the the regata and packed lunch brigade get everything. I must stress though that I would never do something like that on private land.
 
I thnk the initial upset from this post has come from the title - indicating that all landowners are 'exclusive' and snobby and above everyone else. How far from the truth can you get!!!!! The majority are hard working with most assets tied up in their land and they have the right to protect their hard work. I don't think they should be put down for this!
As a rights of way officer I would say it is very hard to get a RECORDED bridleway closed. Its the unrecorded ones that need protecting. A recorded one cannot be closed through lack of use or maintenance.
 
what annoys me is that in our area a bridleway was made in to a byway open to all traffic eg hijacked by 4x4 off roaders which has made it totally unsafe fr horses then to cross the A6 on a blind bend is totally unsafe. I school,jump hack on my own land use a large farm estates bridleways anfd field margins which they are very good about or have to walk on roads , but why is a BOAT allowed to be unsuitable for horses because of off road vehicles.
 
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Naturally, I don't remember saying that I have the right to access anyone's land. I think that you are confusing me with someone else maybe?
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You just came across to me throughout the thread as if you thought you should be allowed to go on others' land. I appreciate you also said you wouldn't do so because the farmer had denied your YO's request. Sorry if I have misunderstood you.
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In our area we are very lucky that some of the local farmers dont mind us using set aside (sensibly).
When i was young i lived in the Bristol area. The out riding was terrible but better than nothing. We had one place to go (Cadbury camp). It was all rock face, with nowhere for a canter. We were stopped from using most lanes, tracks etc. This was about ten years ago. does any body know what this area is like now?
 
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With the outdoor access code up here the countryside is open to everyone. Technically I can go and ride in any fields I want, providing I don't disturb livestock and ruin crops, and the farmers are not allowed to stop me (thats simplified, I can't remember the exact details
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). But in reality I know the farmers would be annoyed and it would cause problems between them and my YO so I don't bother
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Ditto. I have only ever ridden round 2 of the farmers fields next door to mine however ONLY after I have got permission to do so! Id never dream of riding round any others simply because I dont think most farmers know that legally I am allowed to and/or it'd probably piss them off which isn't worth it.
 
One thing you all need to know is that in the 1950's the local Parish Councils where asked to define the status of every Public Right of Way in their Parish. At the time most the Parish Councillors where Farmers or Landowners and in many cases they where not entirely truthfull about the real status of many of the Public Rights of Way in their parish especially those that crossed their land or that of their friends.

The result was that many Bridleways where lost as they where re-designated as Public Footpaths or as nothing at all. This is why some tracks are of a Bridleway status in one Parish and suddenly as it crosses the Parish Boundary it becomes a Bridleway!

So please do not feel too sorry for my fellow landowners because they or the previous owners of the land they now own where not entierly honest.

However we now have the lost way scheme which was brought about by the government to find the many Public Rights of Ways that where lost in this way. However there is a deadline and the research work to prove them is very time intensive.

Speak to older riders and others elderly people that live in your area and ask them where they saw horses ridden when they where children this will give you some clues as to where these lost bridleways where. Mnay coul be Public Footpaths now and some man not even exist anymore.

Your local BHS bridleway officer will be only to pleased to help you to claim these routes.

So do some research which will benefit you and other riders in years to come.

Remember once a Bridleway it is very difficult to extinguish it.

Peter Natt BHS Volunteer BHS Access Officer
 
Couldn't agree more with you on this one. We own land and for the only reason of not being sued I wouldn't want anybody riding on my land.

I don't think its a case of money grabbing farmers either, most would be reasonable without being paid but there are too many horror stories around of people unfamiliar with the countryside who do the most stupid things.least of which is leaving gates open.

Its a pity there aren't more of those public information films about......so the general public are informed of what is acceptable and what isn't.........and lots of people now really don't understand the dangers and problems they cause simply walking through a field that says...danger bull.....or let their dogs wander around minus a lead to "play" with livestock.

Also, there are fields and fields......I think many farmers wouldn't bother too much once approached re rights of way etc if they were far away enough from housing and farm buildings...but once the do gooders decide there has always been a pathway etc then its impossible to put them straight.cos after all, the farmer pays for the privilege of living where he does but the green wellie brigade have more rights etc.

Also, if walkers etc and horse riders were willing to have some form of liablity insurance so that the farmer could get some form of compensation should a rider or walker cause any damage, I think more farmers would be more willing to allow people on their land peaceably......and it would be an easy thing to sort, all it would take would be some form of sticker on a farm gate etc to show who was willing and who wasn't.

and, as for the ramblers.personally, I never met a more selfish bunch of misfits in my life!.these people profess to understand the countryside and yet they cause far more damage to walls and gates etc than I ever saw a horse and rider do.....
 
Our local large landowner let us use all his field edges. It meant we had loads of routes - short and long - and linked with the one byway which ran through the middle of his land. IT gave about 3hr riding. Sadly he sold and moved and a corn baron brought the land. The result? closed all the permissive paths. So now we are faced with road riding or not riding. And yes, we did ask, and offered to pay. Still NO. He said he did not want the pheasants upset. Previous LO gave us shooting dates and we all voluntary kept of the public byway as well as his permissive route, so the shoot was undisturbed.

I find it difficult to balance the pheasant issue with the dangers to human life faced riding on roads.
 
Perhaps the toll idea could be more widely advertised this seems not a bad idea,then insurance would be covered and who used the land could be policed even a few logs for jumping over and if conditions were unsuitable then a sign saying so erected
 
why should there be toll rides, and not toll waks and toll cycleways?

Why should we continually pay for what others have as a right? esp when as Peter says above, we lost a lot of riding ways in the 50's.
 
Because landowners farmers have expensise like everyone else, why should I pay to park my car on the side of a road when I all ready pay car tax? If you use something that is not yours a contribution helps.
 
well the subsidies (i.e money us non landowning tax payers provide) for landowners are pretty well taken up aren't they - why should i pay to avoid being killed on the road when cyclist and walkers dont pay.
 
Your personal safety is not a local farmer's responsibility. It is unfortunate that this land has been sold to someone less willing to let you use it, but there are many reasons why this is happening more and more, as stated in this thread. I suppose it could be argued that it is your choice to ride. Ironically, the Highways Agency are encouraging alternative modes of transport to the car, yet little road provision is made for riders. Maybe this is an area where pressure could be increased.
 
QR: I ride on my family's farmland that is exclusive to us.
I have lived on the farm my entire life, I understand the weahter, the crops and the effect of my horse's huge dinnerplate feet on a field in the bad weather conditions.
Riding across farmland requires a great deal of common sense, sadly which a lot of people seem to lack.
From october to April I would NEVER dream of riding out in any of our fields unless they had reached their crop rotation point and were being left ready to plough- yet I have seen a number of posts on here in the winter regarding people galloping over bridle paths through fields in winter months- disrespectful.
Its also a question of safety. I know where all the drainage dips are, springs, holes, and which livestock I can ride through. I shut all the gates, and know that if I fell off my parents would know exactly where I was- as I tell them where I am playing.
I'm sure my family didn't say when they got horses "only we can ride across our own land because nobody else is worthy of it" but you have to look at it from another point of view. My family spend their lives working this estate as a business- fields full of crops are not something they would like everyone tramping through. Everyone always seems to think I am lucky with this "exclusive" land- I'm only allowed to ride on it because I know when it is ok to, and when its not.
 
I live on a farm and have recently started riding in some of our fields....something I had never done before. Largely because people would possibly see me ride in it, not realise I live here, and assume it's ok for them to follow suit.

I have to pick the fields I ride in due to knowing the nature of the land. Some fields are full of rabbit holes, badger sets and rutted from the cows during the wetter months, before they come in for winter. . Other fields are more suitable.

If someone were to ride in our fields, even without permission, and their horse stepped in a rabbit hole causing an injury to itself or the rider we would be held accountable...even if they were trespassing. The legal responsibility and ramifications are huge.

We are a dairy farm. We don't have "field margins" in the way that arable farms have. We have cows grazing in fields and specific gates open/shut to allow their access to the farm yard. We couldn't just have people hacking anywhere over our land....and why should we when our land is privately paid for? We have similar problems with walkers thinking they can walk anywhere off the footpaths or people thinking they can fish on our private ponds. The times we hear "right to roam" and have to explain it doesn't apply to privately owned farmland. People exercising dogs loose across fields that we want to mow for silage crop. From walkers to horse riders people seem to think they some form of God given right to do as they please on your land. Even the people in the cottages down the lane from us think it's ok to use our fields as compost heaps and dump their grass cuttings, hedge trimmings and tree prunings in our fields! Makes me so angry. I wouldn't dream of tipping my grass cuttings in their gardens (or our fields)...but they have the "it's only farmland" train of thought in their minds.

We pay for the land, we maintain it. It's private land. We're not wealthy landowners or lottery winners. We work damn hard to keep the farm. It's not a case of having a silver spoon in our mouths. Why should we be made to feel selfish and that our land should be freely accessible to all and sundry as and when they want to ride on it?

It's a bit like me saying your garden is bigger than mine (for example) so I think you should let my kids play football on your lawn because they can't do it on mine.

I pay to go on farm/sponsored rides like everyone else does.

Don't get me wrong, IF there were bridle paths on our land, of course we'd not try and stop people using them.....same as we don't stop walkers using the footpaths...but there isn't. We have one bridle track which is an access to the fields and doubles up as an unadopted type lane to some other smallholdings. People ride up there all the time, but it's a stony hardcore track.
 
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QR:
Its also a question of safety. I know where all the drainage dips are, springs, holes, and which livestock I can ride through.

These problems dont arise on public bridleways because the council is responsible for the surface and should maintain it in a safe manner.
 
Thank you everyone. I think the clear message is that people with land can ride on it and others can't, full stop. I don't in any way disagree with you. It is simply hard lines for me because I am not rich enough to buy land nor lucky enough to inherit or marry into it. I hope that you realise you are all very lucky and by your own admission you actually do form an exclusive club because, as you rightly point out only you, yourselves, can ride on your land and the rest of us (the majority of people do not own land) can't. I don't resent your good fortune for a second but I am glad that a lot of you have finally admitted what I already knew that most people don't have the same opportunities as landowners when it comes to riding
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QR:
Its also a question of safety. I know where all the drainage dips are, springs, holes, and which livestock I can ride through.

These problems dont arise on public bridleways because the council is responsible for the surface and should maintain it in a safe manner.

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Rosiie is talking private land, not a public bridleway. There is a clear definition between the two.

I would be surprised to hear the councils are responsible for public bridleways though. We are responsible for the maintenance of the public footpaths and stiles on our land...not the council. They just come around and inspect them to make sure they are free of brambles etc. If a walker fell over a dodgy stile, it is US not the council that would no doubt be sued if they felt it wasn't properly maintained.

I see no reason why public bridleways would be any different if they happen to cross private land.
 
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Thank you everyone. I think the clear message is that people with land can ride on it and others can't, full stop. I don't in any way disagree with you. It is simply hard lines for me because I am not rich enough to buy land nor lucky enough to inherit or marry into it. I hope that you realise you are all very lucky and by your own admission you actually do form an exclusive club because, as you rightly point out only you, yourselves, can ride on your land and the rest of us (the majority of people do not own land) can't. I don't resent your good fortune for a second but I am glad that a lot of you have finally admitted what I already knew that most people don't have the same opportunities as landowners when it comes to riding
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Why is there so much resentment?

I could say those of you that keep your horses at a swish yard and have access to horse walkers, solariums, XC courses and international sized arenas are part of an exclusive club that I'm not privvy to.

You're making it sound like farmers are a selfish bunch because we don't all allow hundreds of riders to trample across the land constantly and I'm sorry, but that is quite offensive to me.
 
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