Should there be a grant scheme for British breeders??

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lindsayc31

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Hi all, I am just posting this to see what people's opinions are and to find out if there is already anything in place to help keep QUALITY stallions etc in is country. I am about to dip my toe into the stallion owning world and am lucky enough to have negotiated terms for my colt, not that I can't afford to have a stallion, before anybody jumps on that bandwagon, but because it isn't always possible to have a large lump sum just laying around the house! My colt is a rarity, cannot find another in this country and indeed, having researched endlessly of late, I haven't found one as yet in Europe! He is Cremello TOBIANO colt, British bred warmblood and I cannot wait to have him home! But how may other quality (and he is serious quality!) colts, mares etc are bought by European countries and go abroad? It has been said that the British don't breed quality animals anymore, but is it because some of our best have just been exported?? Hope it gets you all talking!! ( And p.s, if anyone is interested n being a part of my new venture, please PM me, can only be for the greater good!)
 
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A grant scheme would be great; but who is going to pay for it? And who would decide how it is allocated? Unless there is some sort of self-help scheme funded by breeders themselves, as in the racing world, I cannot see it happening.

I do feel that, at least where breeding and bringing on youngstock are concerned, the horse world should be absorbed into agriculture and given the same rights and privileges - and on occasion, grant aid - as only the end use of the animal really differs, in broad terms, from what happens in keeping cattle, say; you have the same need to maintain grassland, fences, buildings and to provide winter fodder. This would make a huge and I think a positive difference to British breeders.

Who is your lad, lindsay? I don't know if you would be able to post a photo or link without risking deletion, but we could surely google his name...
 
What you say is very true James, it's a shame we equestrians don't get some of the same help agriculture do. My colt, (when everything is finalised, which wll be shortly!) is called Gooseford Hanky Panky, he is by Hillbrook Stud's cremello stallion 'By Design' out of a mare called Wolfgang Double Cream. Quite a rarity to have a double dilute with the tobiano gene too!!! Excited.com!!!
 
Short answer is no for me. I think that a grant scheme might bring in the wrong type of people that are in it just for business reasons (everyone knows horses very rarely make a profit, we all just enjoy them lol!) rather than from a love of the game and horses themselves.
Besides, unless we were classed under the agriculture umbrella (which I see as a good and a bad thing) who is going to do the granting and how would it be governed?
I think it's a step too far myself although I would welcome inspection and licensing for all colts and stallions to be returned.
 
I am not a fan of any type of grant scheme. I'm an advocate for level playing fields for one and all. Breeding is available to everyone who wants to go down this route; stand rubbish stallions, breed rubbish mares and you won't be in business long; stand quality stallions, breed good mares and your business should have a greater chance of survival. I'm a believer in market forces dictating the future of any business prospect including the horse breeding market. I think once you start to mess about with economics in this way you're on a slippery slope.
 
Spring Feather said:
I am not a fan of any type of grant scheme. I'm an advocate for level playing fields for one and all. Breeding is available to everyone who wants to go down this route; stand rubbish stallions, breed rubbish mares and you won't be in business long; stand quality stallions, breed good mares and your business should have a greater chance of survival. I'm a believer in market forces dictating the future of any business prospect including the horse breeding market. I think once you start to mess about with economics in this way you're on a slippery slope.
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Some truth in what you say, Springfeather, but unfortunately that level playing field for one and all does not exist and probably never did. As a result those standing even top class stallions in this country are barely competitive against the Europeans for a whole range of reasons unconnected with the quality of the product but involving the usefulness of agricultural status and the support and goodwill of the state for the equestrian industry.

If only it was really just as simple as standing good stock rather than bad...
 
jamesmead said:
As a result those standing even top class stallions in this country are barely competitive against the Europeans for a whole range of reasons unconnected with the quality of the product but involving the usefulness of agricultural status and the support and goodwill of the state for the equestrian industry.
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Please expand. I'm interested :)
 
Springfeather, where do I start?

Equestrian establishments carry business rates except where stables are part of the curtilage of a house. (Start breeding and selling your horses, however, and you are likely to be reassessed, even if you don't make a profit.) Equestrian establishments, as far as I am aware, will need planning permission for every building and the presumption will tend to be against permission being given, even where you are talking about a business, not just leisure use; farms, meanwhile, can erect quite substantial buildings without requiring permission as such (they have to confer with the planners but still have an entitlement to build) and even where planning is required the presumption tends to be in favour.

Housing for farm workers is more easily achieved than housing for equestrian workers, based on the perceived needs of such and such an acreage of such and such a crop; horses don't count. You have to demonstrate business need without the back-up of this official entitlement.

A payment per hectare is available to farms and is the main source of income of some small farms; it is called the Single Farm Payment; SFP. you may be right here, Springfeather, that this annual grant aid has done a lot of damage; it has (IMO) allowed the supermarkets cream off the profits from farming whilst farmers are poorly paid for their produce and effectively live as beneficiaries of the state; nevertheless, an equestrian establishment trying to do much the same thing as somewhere breeding cattle or sheep does not qualify, but presumably on the continent it would qualify for whatever the equivalent grant aid may be.

I haven't even started on the widespread council and public attitude to horse-riding as a sport of the rich (a self-fulfilling prophecy as other sports are funded and made available to poorer kids whilst riding is not).
 
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No not if it is for breeding a foal, standing a stallion maybe. I say this because i have been told a similar scheme was available in Ireland for breeding a foal and this has led to a flood of substandard animals on the market as any old mare was allowed to breed.

As for the Single Farm Payment, this is available for land used for equestrian purposes but had to be registered for entitlement several years ago, and there are conditions attached regarding the management of the land and hedges etc, so it is not simply a 'gift'.
 
Thanks for taking the time to write that Jamesmead :) I personally don't like the idea of grants per se, however a change in classification status for commercial equine businesses/farms may be valid, although I believe would be unfair to the smaller breeder or hobby equestrian who often doesn't own their own land, hence I stick by my theory that continuation of the level playing field for all results in equilibrium within Britain. British breeders competing against European breeders however is not so equal and I think that's what the OP is really getting at? At the end of the day it's all down to market forces; it's up to the British equestrians to choose whether to buy British-bred horses or travel to Europe to purchase them. I can't see that grants would greatly alter much although it could cause a divide between the smaller and larger British breeders.
 
For stallions no for mares yes. There is a lack of concern about the quality of mares used for breeding. The Irish Draught Society of GB for example offer travel grants for registered mares to travel further a field to quality stallions, plus there is also the Hornby Scheme for exceptional mares.
 
BuzyLizzie said:
i have been told a similar scheme was available in Ireland for breeding a foal and this has led to a flood of substandard animals on the market as any old mare was allowed to breed.
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We have a couple that were on these various schemes in Ireland (NDP Premier Mare Scheme/Premier Broodmare Retention Scheme etc) and I can assure you that they are not 'any old mare' but rather fabulous, although I agree with you that when I personally look back at the stallions theyve been put to it wouldnt have been the way Id go, on the whole. But then others have different opinions on what they want to produce which is fair enough.

Kaylum said:
For stallions no for mares yes. There is a lack of concern about the quality of mares used for breeding. The Irish Draught Society of GB for example offer travel grants for registered mares to travel further a field to quality stallions, plus there is also the Hornby Scheme for exceptional mares.
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I agree, I think Id say the same.
We do have some Hornby premium mares ourselves and hopefully will be putting one forward this year also, but Id forgotten about the travel grant so thanks for reminding me! :)
 
Maesfen said:
Short answer is no for me. I think that a grant scheme might bring in the wrong type of people that are in it just for business reasons (everyone knows horses very rarely make a profit, we all just enjoy them lol!) rather than from a love of the game and horses themselves.
Besides, unless we were classed under the agriculture umbrella (which I see as a good and a bad thing) who is going to do the granting and how would it be governed?
I think it's a step too far myself although I would welcome inspection and licensing for all colts and stallions to be returned.
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I'm sorry, but I really can't agree with you. The days when sport was run in a truly amateur capacity are long over. We need to shift our views on equines, and start to view them in a commercial capacity. It happens in racing, and despite the size of our island, we do quit well!

Sport Horse Studs make every effort to run at a profit, and without their success, we wouldn't have their expertise to fall back on. Bringing money into the business will invigorate those at the top, they'll be keener to source our well bred and successful young-stock, and the breeders will, in turn and thanks to improved sales, expand. Those same Stud Farm/Stallion owners, would then rid themselves of some of the less desirable, and equip themselves with premium stallions of worth.

Licensing and rewarding the better stallions would encourage others to keep them, and the vital mares, also licensed and rewarded, would complete the picture.

OK, well that's it in theory!! :D In practice there will those aspects which may not be ideal, and the reality is that it will never happen. There has to be a will, a will which is currently absent.

For too many years now, we've allowed our love of the horse to cloud our reasoning, a reasoning which could improve the animals themselves, to the betterment of everyone! It isn't about to happen.

Alec.
 
jamesmead said:
.......

....... it is called the Single Farm Payment; SFP. you may be right here, Springfeather, that this annual grant aid has done a lot of damage; it has (IMO) allowed the supermarkets cream off the profits from farming whilst farmers are poorly paid for their produce and effectively live as beneficiaries of the state;.......

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The Single Farm Payment was put in place to support those who produce food, and in an attempt to subsidise the Housewife and her food bill. The reality is that for many of those who are tenant farmers, and there are many, the payments made are a benchmark, by which land owners base their rents. The lunacy of SFP and the entitlements scheme, allowed those who held these payments, to trade in them, and sell off their entitlements.

As my last post, it aint going to happen!! ;)

Alec.
 
In France and permitted under EU legislation a levy is placed on top competition winnings and the funds distributed to breeders I am not aware exactly how this works. The State Premium of 300 Euros is give to the breeders of State Premium mares in Germany. They will be headstudbook mares who have done the Ridden Performance Test,been awarded a 1A in a mare class and vetted as not a roarer.
 
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