Should we be altering our grazing for horses?

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Apercrumbie

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When reseeding earlier this year I had a thought. Thanks to the amount of research undertaken, we now know that modern grazing is full of too much sugar for the modern horse, having adverse affects on hoof quality, weight management and serious consequences in the form of laminitis, amongst other issues. We are told that our grass is more suited to dairy cows and that is is unsuitable for our horses in reality, in particular our native breeds. So, should we be attempting to change the kinds of grasses we use for our horses in favour of something tougher and less sugary? Obviously we don't want moorland grass everywhere as that isn't rich enough for the comparatively tiny fields we keep our horses in, but is there a middle ground? Could be a terrible idea but having two laminitic natives, I thought it could be an option worth researching. Thoughts?
 
A lot of research has gone into sorting the types of grass suited to horses and you can of course buy pony paddock grass seed if you are starting from scratch the issue being most old leys are suitable for horses if they have not been fertilised and weedkilled to within an inch of their lives it is specifically grown cattle and sheep grass that is high in sugars and now with diversification many land owners are finding that is more profitable to have liveries than grow a few sheep
 
Ryegrass is one of the cheapest and most readily available grass seed, but it is the very thing we do not want for horses. .... high yield, sugar, low fibre....
There are horse pasture mixes, but after a few years the grass mix will alter due to management. Moorland grasses will grow on acid moorlands, but on normal soils, they will not thrive.
There are dozens of common grass species.
 
You will get the kind of grass which you sow. It is perfectly possible to buy grass seed especially for horse grazing. Then you need to make sure that you don't over-fertilise, which would make the grass too rich. Weeds are best controlled manually rather than by spraying, as then you can keep those non-grass plants which are not harmful to the horses.
Of course the soil you are on dictates the kind of grass which grows readily but it is possible to address acidity levels etc.
 
We only buy pony seed and horses have been on the land for decades so I'm fairly confident that is isn't dairy grass. I thought it would be an interesting topic because you often here that our grass is too sugary, particularly in barefoot threads and wondered if there was a middle ground between poor moorland grass and what we use and whether altering our grazing could be a good move for our fatties.
 
Apercrumbie said:
We only buy pony seed and horses have been on the land for decades so I'm fairly confident that is isn't dairy grass. I thought it would be an interesting topic because you often here that our grass is too sugary, particularly in barefoot threads and wondered if there was a middle ground between poor moorland grass and what we use and whether altering our grazing could be a good move for our fatties.
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Changing management will alter the pasture: horses are selective grazers, if you can mix with sheep, the pasture will be better, more even, and also less worms.
For fatties try Paddock Paradise system, where they have to walk round a track to get their grub.
Regardless of grass species there will be variation in sugars during the day and seasonally, but ryegrasses are higher in sugars, lower in fibre than other species.
 
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We are lucky enough to have old pasture with wild flowers and more varieties of grass than I could name, also the occasional orchid. We only use paddock mix to fill in any gaps and rarely fertilise.
The horses still have to be restricted though or they'd be the size of houses.
 
Now I have enough land to do so, I only graze mature grass. Short, sweet growing grass is so much worse for them than what looks like lush grass, but which is actually old and woody...
 
Sorry for being thick, but what is a ley?

My mare used to be on dairy pasture, loved it and was a huge fattie, who had to be muzzled, a tb too! Since moving home she has lost a lot of weight (stress, shoes off which caused discomfort, being managed now), but seems to have settled now. I was pleased she is no longer on dairy pasture as far too rich for her and my little pony. Pony was in restricted turn out and also huge.

Then I panicked that my pasture isn't rich enough. Now everything seems to have stabilised though. Pony bit too fat, but not dangerously so (sent vet a photo to check!)mare tiny bit too thin but improving.

Cobgoblin. - so pleased you said that about wild flowers. I have allsorts mixed in with my grass (purple, yellow, white flowers), bluebells and daffodils. Constantly picking bits and googling to find out if they are poisonous to horses! So far all seem to be ok.
I have to be vigilant with the bracken though - we back on to woodland to have a few patches, my mare seemed to enjoy eating it, so I've had to pull it all up.

As for the grass, I'd love to learn more about the types of grass we have. Any suggestions of how I can swat up?

We had a land drain put in and I re-seeded this with pony paddock grass. This is now my mares preferred patch. She can often be found eating this to within an inch if it's life. I did have the grazing analysed so I know it's suitable for horses but would like to learn more about land management. Any one have any ideas?

OP sorry for hijacking your thread, hopefully I've not gone too far off topic, so pleased you've started this post as makes for a very interesting read :)
 
Ley is a the word used for the grass in field especially one that has lots of wild flowers by dictionary definition for a short time but by usage for a long time usually hundreds of years . The sward is the actual grazing so short growing grass makes a thick short sward etc
 
I'll be following this thread. I'm about to take over responsibility for managing my own grazing. Currently it's a mass of white clover and I've ponies, one of which is prone to lami. Currently she's muzzled. I'm wondering what I can do to improve what is out there, but I want to make sure I'm not providing anything rich!
 
We are not really fair comparing the old grass pastures with less productive low sugar grasses with the grass that is been used for paddocks today.
There is now less available land and what there is sells between £8-10,000 and acre, but there are more leisure horses that have to be available for people with little free time to ride. The old rule of thumb used to be one horse on acre, I would think that most livery yards that are within easy reach of there customers, so that means the majority would be near towns, the stocking density would be more likely to be two perhaps even three horses an acre. Everyone wants winter turnout so areas get poached and no one wants to feed hay in summer, so yard owners end up using quick growing rye grass to keep up with demand.

I think horse owners need to have a change in attitude to looking at livery yards, paddocks of lovey green grass may mean that it looks lovely but its not healthy. If owners accepted that grazing will be sparse but rough forage was provided all year there would be less peaks and troughs in the horses nutrition. Most people who have horses with weight problems restrict grazing and poor hay all year, this stops the need for muzzling and the animal does not get hungry, as all the animals are kept under the same conditions there would be more walking and therefore the animal gets more natural exercise. As it is when people look at livery yards they want grass all year so YO have to resort to modern leys that will stand intensive grazing. It a viscous circle.
 
Evie91 said:
Sorry for being thick, but what is a

Cobgoblin. - so pleased you said that about wild flowers. I have allsorts mixed in with my grass (purple, yellow, white flowers), bluebells and daffodils. Constantly picking bits and googling to find out if they are poisonous to horses! So far all seem to be ok.
I have to be vigilant with the bracken though - we back on to woodland to have a few patches, my mare seemed to enjoy eating it, so I've had to pull it all up.

As for the grass, I'd love to learn more about the types of grass we have. Any suggestions of how I can swat up?



:)
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Lol, when we first moved here I spent hours in the paddocks with wildflower and plant books! All I ever find is an occasional piece of ragwort and a few bits of bracken which are easily removed.
We strip graze in the summer, so large areas are allowed to re-seed themselves. This way we have never run out of wildflowers in 20yrs despite the fact that the horses enjoy eating them all. We never spray either, we just top areas of docks and nettles. Over the years these areas have shrunk to just a few clumps.
The best thing about the flowers is the number of butterflies , thousands of them, it almost makes poo-picking enjoyable!

I'm pretty sure you can get books on grass identification, I could do with one as well.
 
honetpot said:
We are not really fair comparing the old grass pastures with less productive low sugar grasses with the grass that is been used for paddocks today.
There is now less available land and what there is sells between £8-10,000 and acre, but there are more leisure horses that have to be available for people with little free time to ride. The old rule of thumb used to be one horse on acre, I would think that most livery yards that are within easy reach of there customers, so that means the majority would be near towns, the stocking density would be more likely to be two perhaps even three horses an acre. Everyone wants winter turnout so areas get poached and no one wants to feed hay in summer, so yard owners end up using quick growing rye grass to keep up with demand.

I think horse owners need to have a change in attitude to looking at livery yards, paddocks of lovey green grass may mean that it looks lovely but its not healthy. If owners accepted that grazing will be sparse but rough forage was provided all year there would be less peaks and troughs in the horses nutrition. Most people who have horses with weight problems restrict grazing and poor hay all year, this stops the need for muzzling and the animal does not get hungry, as all the animals are kept under the same conditions there would be more walking and therefore the animal gets more natural exercise. As it is when people look at livery yards they want grass all year so YO have to resort to modern leys that will stand intensive grazing. It a viscous circle.
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This is a very good post and clearly a problem for many of us. We are lucky enough to have a 3 acre field so we manage the grazing ourselves. The land is poorly drained, despite having a lot of work done on it, and the soil is clay which makes for a hell of a lot of winter poaching. While the field looks lovely again by summer, the grass has been getting a bit thinner for the last couple of years as a result of all the rain. More rain = more poaching.

In an ideal world, I would like to find a slightly tougher grass than rye grass to help protect the soil a bit more. If it was less sugary that would be a fantastic added bonus as none of the horses grazing on it need any help in the sugar department. The field gets a good rest every spring to help it recover, but I need to make a few tweaks to management to get a better concentration of grass before winter.
 
Apercrumbie said:
This is a very good post and clearly a problem for many of us. We are lucky enough to have a 3 acre field so we manage the grazing ourselves. The land is poorly drained, despite having a lot of work done on it, and the soil is clay which makes for a hell of a lot of winter poaching. While the field looks lovely again by summer, the grass has been getting a bit thinner for the last couple of years as a result of all the rain. More rain = more poaching.

In an ideal world, I would like to find a slightly tougher grass than rye grass to help protect the soil a bit more. If it was less sugary that would be a fantastic added bonus as none of the horses grazing on it need any help in the sugar department. The field gets a good rest every spring to help it recover, but I need to make a few tweaks to management to get a better concentration of grass before winter.
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You could try Timothy grass. I know it is possible to get the seed because a lot of people make Timothy Haylage. It is coarse and palatable and much lower calorie than ryegrass. No idea if it helps the poaching problem though.
 
Just bear in mind that a lot of ''pony paddock'' mixes still contain large proportion of ryegrass - it is a very durable species, grows quickly, resist draughts well etc. The ideal mixes for good doers etc are the ''amenity'' or ''buffer strip'' mixtures - full of fescues, timothy and cocksfoot.
 
OldNag said:
I'll be following this thread. I'm about to take over responsibility for managing my own grazing. Currently it's a mass of white clover and I've ponies, one of which is prone to lami. Currently she's muzzled. I'm wondering what I can do to improve what is out there, but I want to make sure I'm not providing anything rich!
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you aren't going to want to hear this but a lot of clover is a sign that your soil is nitrogen deficient. Fertilising it will help the grass out compete the clover. One of my Exmoors is a pig for clover and its the equivalent of sugar coated lard for him. It would be well worth your while either talking to local farmers or getting advice from an agronomist. I had a bad clover problem in one place I was at. My landlord-a farmer-blamed my obsessive poo picking (although it should be noted it was elsewhere on his horse paddocks that were only harrowed once a year). Anyway, he told me to fertilise which was the one thing I didn't want to do! But eventually, in desperation I did and it did the trick-that and lots of topping.

I've struggled with rich grazing for the last 5 years with my lot. Have just moved to Scottish hill grazing and its bliss. The ponies are managing fine with it. I am muzzling much less. One of the Exmoors is out on 5 acres with a youngster (horse) of meadow with all sorts in it-vetch, campions, thistles and all sort of things I can't identify as well as less desirable ones like ground elder, willow herb, broom. Its interesting watching what they eat when they really have a choice. The paddocks all have burns, mature trees (beech and ash mainly-hawthorne and gorse of course), ruins, boulders, bluffs and stony tracks. Its perfect. The down side is no grazing in the depths of winter but I can live with that.
 
I bought this very reasonably from 'thegrassseedstore' on ebay. Germination was 100%, and it's got going beautifully.
I don't restrict grazing, as most of the time they're on rough old watermeadows, so didn't want to plant rye in the new paddock.


Equine Pasture Without Ryegrass

Ideal for restricted intake on pasture or low yielding pony paddocks

Mixture contents (per acre pack)
3.000 kg *certified Meadow Fescue festuca pratensis
2.500 kg *certified Timothy phleum pratense
2.000 kg *certified Strong Fescue festuca rubra rubra
1.500 kg *certified Sheeps Fescue festuca ovina
1.500 kg *certified Smooth Meadowgrass poa pratensis
1.000 kg *certified Slender Fescue festuca trivialis
1.000 kg *certified Cocksfoot dactylis glomerata
1.000 kg *certified Chewings Fescue festuca commutata
0.500 kg *certified Bentgrass agrostis capillaris
 
MotherOfChickens said:
you aren't going to want to hear this but a lot of clover is a sign that your soil is nitrogen deficient. Fertilising it will help the grass out compete the clover. One of my Exmoors is a pig for clover and its the equivalent of sugar coated lard for him. It would be well worth your while either talking to local farmers or getting advice from an agronomist. I had a bad clover problem in one place I was at. My landlord-a farmer-blamed my obsessive poo picking (although it should be noted it was elsewhere on his horse paddocks that were only harrowed once a year). Anyway, he told me to fertilise which was the one thing I didn't want to do! But eventually, in desperation I did and it did the trick-that and lots of topping.
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It is not strictly true that the soil is N deficient, in fact clover fixes N from the atmosphere in the root nodules. Organic farmers will sow clover in order to minimise use of fertilisers. Once fertilisers are used, heavily, the clover s unable to compete with the grass and it will not thrive. If you look at a [ badly managed] lawn in high summer , where the clover is, the grass will be green, and where there is no clover, the grass will be pale.
It is easy to kill off clover using selective weedkiller. But just as easy to manage it by application of fertiliser, however, I don't see this is a solution, as the grass growing in response to fertiliser will tend to be lush ie sugary .......... you can't win, moderation is the key. I would not be worried about a bit of wild white clover [very close to ground], but would be worried about a lot of red clover [grows taller]
In ye olden days the farmer spread rotted manure on his fields, thus returning nutrients to his land, they also used lime to keep the pastures "sweet". Those days have gone.
 
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Bonkers2 said:
In ye olden days the farmer spread rotted manure on his fields, thus returning nutrients to his land, they also used lime to keep the pastures "sweet". Those days have gone.
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not up here they haven't :) but then they are keeping cattle and sheep, not horses on the whole.


my paddock at the time was about 90% clover, it had completely overtaken the sward. It was a nightmare for the pony who decided he liked it and horrid for the one trying to graze in among it-photosensitivity and the flies were dreadful too. fertilising it (it also wasn't my land so was limited as to what I was allowed to do) was the lesser of two weevils-the pony was muzzled and we had no problems with the grass or LGL afterwards. On the clover we had a close call with said pony.

I have changed my mind about poo picking and/or fertilising over the years-I don't believe you can keep taking out of the soil and put nothing back in.
 
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