Should we buy another one?

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ArthursMam

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Apologies if this is posted in the wrong forum. I wondered if anyone would be able to provide me with a little advice.

We've recently purchased out first horse just before Christmas. He's an Irish Draught, 17hh, massive in every way. We had a few teething problems. He's 10, very aware of his size and strength and pushed his luck during the initial few weeks. Bolted a few times and generally frightened the living daylights out of me.

On the ground he's a gentleman. And in fairness, when riding he is almost always 100%. He will pass anything on the road even heavy construction vehicles and is a very gentle boy.

We've learned what he likes and what he doesn't. He doesn't like sheep, silent cyclists, cars following him too close from behind or bridges with water underneath. We've worked hard to get him past these things as much as we can but when he does spook he does a good job of it and can unseat you completely.

A friend has been joining me to ride and when he has a friend to hack with he's much better behaved. He continues to spook but not so dramatically and calms quickly. The horse we hack out with is completely bonkers but still seems to help keep my horse calm.

I've never hacked out alone since the initial teething problems and living quite remotely. My husband walks alongside us. Call me silly but it gives me confidence.

At the weekend I returned the favour to my inexperienced husband. I walked alongside him Saturday and he was perfect. On Sunday I walked alongside him and he was a complete dream, then spooked at a chainsaw. My husband initially brought him back, then the chainsaw restarted and he bolted. Galloped a main road. The husband bailed out but fell into concrete and has fractured his hip, pelvis and pubic remi.

Not the best day!

(The horse is fine)

So, going forward....... Would a second horse help or am I just setting myself up for more work and no benefit. He seems to hack better with a friend but I'm aware the friend would have to be the perfect horse (if they exist).

I love my horse. And I would never sell him even if he becomes a field ornament. I'm sure he'd be quite happy with that. He currently shares a field with two donkeys who he loves dearly.

I'm not in to competitions. I'm a happy hacker. I'm too old for anything else! any advice would be most gratefully received .

Kelly x
 
Are you really set on keeping him? He doesn't sound like the horse for you, and youve not owned him long so you don't really owe him anything, doesnt sound a bad horse but would thrive with a more confident rider and more work. You could sell him and buy something more suitable for yourself and your husband?
 
Gosh - your story has scared me stiff. The small percentage of time when he isn't almost 100% includes bolting several times, scaring you and serious injury to your husband. I hope I don't upset you when I say that the question I would ask is 'should we buy a different horse?'
 
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I'm sorry but he doesn't sound like the horse for you OP. He's a lot of horse, and for something that bolts (and injure your husband as you found out recently) and knows his own strength - he just sounds like too much. There are so many wonderful safe horses out there, I wouldn't waste my time on something that scared me.

ETA - if you definitely won't sell, then instead of buying another use the money and get some professional help to iron out his issues and make him a safer mount for you and your husband.
 
i would seriously consider selling him, although it sounds as if he is a nice enough horse he may well be too green, too lacking in confidence for an inexperienced hacking home, no horse is going to be totally bombproof and certainly not when ridden by a very inexperienced person but they should not be constantly taking off whenever they get worried by something out of the ordinary, they should be trained to stand and wait if asked not tank off.

If you are determined to keep him then rather than invest in another why not spend some money getting him schooled, and some lessons for yourself, so he becomes the horse you want, it may not work out but if he is a genuinely nice horse he can be improved with some help from an experienced trainer, you may only want to hack but it is much more fun hacking a well trained obedient horse than one that takes off regularly.
 
ArthursMam said:
Apologies if this is posted in the wrong forum. I wondered if anyone would be able to provide me with a little advice.

We've recently purchased out first horse just before Christmas. He's an Irish Draught, 17hh, massive in every way. We had a few teething problems. He's 10, very aware of his size and strength and pushed his luck during the initial few weeks. Bolted a few times and generally frightened the living daylights out of me.

On the ground he's a gentleman. And in fairness, when riding he is almost always 100%. He will pass anything on the road even heavy construction vehicles and is a very gentle boy.

We've learned what he likes and what he doesn't. He doesn't like sheep, silent cyclists, cars following him too close from behind or bridges with water underneath. We've worked hard to get him past these things as much as we can but when he does spook he does a good job of it and can unseat you completely.

A friend has been joining me to ride and when he has a friend to hack with he's much better behaved. He continues to spook but not so dramatically and calms quickly. The horse we hack out with is completely bonkers but still seems to help keep my horse calm.

I've never hacked out alone since the initial teething problems and living quite remotely. My husband walks alongside us. Call me silly but it gives me confidence.

At the weekend I returned the favour to my inexperienced husband. I walked alongside him Saturday and he was perfect. On Sunday I walked alongside him and he was a complete dream, then spooked at a chainsaw. My husband initially brought him back, then the chainsaw restarted and he bolted. Galloped a main road. The husband bailed out but fell into concrete and has fractured his hip, pelvis and pubic remi.

Not the best day!

(The horse is fine)

So, going forward....... Would a second horse help or am I just setting myself up for more work and no benefit. He seems to hack better with a friend but I'm aware the friend would have to be the perfect horse (if they exist).

I love my horse. And I would never sell him even if he becomes a field ornament. I'm sure he'd be quite happy with that. He currently shares a field with two donkeys who he loves dearly.

I'm not in to competitions. I'm a happy hacker. I'm too old for anything else! any advice would be most gratefully received .

Kelly x
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I can't tell you, categorically, what you should and shouldn't do. However, personally, I wouldn't invest in second horse until you have sorted out your relationship with this one. You haven't had him long enough to establish a trusting relationship which works both ways. Three or four months isn't really long enough for you both to get to know and trust one another and if you are nervous when riding even if it's sub-conscious and you aren't aware of it, it will communicate to your horse. Remember, horses take their lead from us and if they think you may be a bit worried they are likely to think there is something really threatening and follow their instincts as flight animals. It's a case of "If that noise is frightening the boss, I'd better be terrified and get us out of here before it eats us both".

A second horse makes for a lot of work and with your husband out of action it will be very hard for you. If the second horse is for him he needs to be back on his feet and to have got over any post-accident jitters and nerves before he should be considering hacking out on a new horse. It also sounds as though he would benefit from a few lessons before you buy a second one for him.

Irish Draughts are (usually!) incredible sensible, kind and intelligent horses and make wonderful partners with us humans. I love mine dearly and he's looked after me for nearly 20 years but even he would be a bit fazed by the chainsaw incident! In stressful horse-related situations I find it very useful to hum - it slows down your breathing and most horses like the sound of it especially if you hum when you are both in the stable and they are used to hearing it in safe situations. My Grandfather who worked with horses all his life, passed the humming hint down through the family. He said it was invaluable in the battlefields of WW1!

Hope your husband is improving and good luck with forming a relationship with your horse.

(Incidentally, I speak from 60+ years experience with horses and I'm still learning.)
 
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OP I sorry but he doesn't sound like the right horse for you and your husband. I had a 17.1 that frightened the life out of me! He eventually got me off on the concrete in front of a car. Possibly the most frightening experience of my life. Anyway, I downsized and have the most honest chap now and it's fun again! After all isn't that what it's meant to be?
 
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Thank you everyone.
Although I'm very grateful for what I know is perfect advice..... Replacing him isn't an option for me.
Call me stupid but I've always been the one that's rehomed the bankers animal no one wanted and I can't give up on him yet.
He's such a gentle boy generally, he just gets scared and runs.
I know how dangerous that is but I have to try and see it from his point of view. He's come from living in remote countryside to living next to a dual carriageway.
We have lovely riding around us but we have to cross roads to get to it and he's been an absolute superstar through that.
The husband is ok. In pain obviously and gutted he fell. He blames himself which we all know he shouldn't.
He thinks the horse misheard "whoa" for "go!"

I wonder if a new horse would be a last ditch attempt to get him confident? I know nothing is bombproof but as close to it as possible.

The fact of the matter is, if he bolts, my two legs aren't quick enough to catch him. Would he get confidence from another sound horse?

Kelly x
 
ArthursMam said:
Thank you everyone.
Although I'm very grateful for what I know is perfect advice..... Replacing him isn't an option for me.
Call me stupid but I've always been the one that's rehomed the bankers animal no one wanted and I can't give up on him yet.
He's such a gentle boy generally, he just gets scared and runs.
I know how dangerous that is but I have to try and see it from his point of view. He's come from living in remote countryside to living next to a dual carriageway.
We have lovely riding around us but we have to cross roads to get to it and he's been an absolute superstar through that.
The husband is ok. In pain obviously and gutted he fell. He blames himself which we all know he shouldn't.
He thinks the horse misheard "whoa" for "go!"

I wonder if a new horse would be a last ditch attempt to get him confident? I know nothing is bombproof but as close to it as possible.

The fact of the matter is, if he bolts, my two legs aren't quick enough to catch him. Would he get confidence from another sound horse?

Kelly x
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He can and should learn to take confidence from his rider (if he needs it). If you won't sell then I strongly suggest getting help from a professional who can teach him to not be flighty when he's worried. I'd also have lessons on him yourself and get your confidence up. Work on building a bond with him - it takes at least 6 months I think, and needs work regularly - I personally find ground work great for this. Walking him out in hand might help too - get him used to the sights and sounds of your area without being on him. Long line him around the lanes if you can (though get the tanking off under control first!). Good luck.
 
ArthursMam said:
Thank you everyone.
Although I'm very grateful for what I know is perfect advice..... Replacing him isn't an option for me.
Call me stupid but I've always been the one that's rehomed the bankers animal no one wanted and I can't give up on him yet.
He's such a gentle boy generally, he just gets scared and runs.
I know how dangerous that is but I have to try and see it from his point of view. He's come from living in remote countryside to living next to a dual carriageway.
We have lovely riding around us but we have to cross roads to get to it and he's been an absolute superstar through that.
The husband is ok. In pain obviously and gutted he fell. He blames himself which we all know he shouldn't.
He thinks the horse misheard "whoa" for "go!"

I wonder if a new horse would be a last ditch attempt to get him confident? I know nothing is bombproof but as close to it as possible.

The fact of the matter is, if he bolts, my two legs aren't quick enough to catch him. Would he get confidence from another sound horse?

Kelly x
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Even in remote countryside there is plenty to scare a horse, if they have been properly educated they will not run away from something new, you are making excuses for him, his previous training and while life may be different in many ways it is not normal for horses to run away whenever they are scared, get some help rather than another horse, there is no guarantee another horse will be any better and if the rider is not quick enough you could end up with 2 running away and 2 broken riders.
 
Thank you.
That sounds much more positive and a plan we can work with.
Once the husband is fixed we'll get him some lessons and in the meantime I'll get some and start walking him around in hand whenever I can. I'll scrap the idea of a second horse for now. We ideally wanted a second for the Summer months anyway but I'll definitely take your advice and sort this one out first.
I don't expect him to settle in the short time he's been here, and I know he's a s**t head tanking off, and I know I'm making excuses. But he was more of a s**t head 8 weeks ago..... He is improving! X
 
ArthursMam said:
Thank you everyone.
Although I'm very grateful for what I know is perfect advice..... Replacing him isn't an option for me.
Call me stupid but I've always been the one that's rehomed the bankers animal no one wanted and I can't give up on him yet.
He's such a gentle boy generally, he just gets scared and runs.
I know how dangerous that is but I have to try and see it from his point of view. He's come from living in remote countryside to living next to a dual carriageway.
We have lovely riding around us but we have to cross roads to get to it and he's been an absolute superstar through that.
The husband is ok. In pain obviously and gutted he fell. He blames himself which we all know he shouldn't.
He thinks the horse misheard "whoa" for "go!"

I wonder if a new horse would be a last ditch attempt to get him confident? I know nothing is bombproof but as close to it as possible.

The fact of the matter is, if he bolts, my two legs aren't quick enough to catch him. Would he get confidence from another sound horse?

Kelly x
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So you won't sell him even though he is unsuitable, what are you going to do when he bolts and maybe causes an accident to another person eg a pedestrian or a person in a car?
 
My horse is a different horse with company, she's not dangerous alone but she has her moments. She becomes a novice ride when she's out with another, even if the other one is fizzy, she doesn't pick up on it. It is more natural for them to venture around with company.
 
This horse is not a first horse.
He is completely dangerous and I would get rid of him as soon as possible as you are clearly over-horsed.
Get yourself an older established and quiet laid back bombproof spook-proof horse which you can happily and safely hack out by itself and in company and which will not un-seat you.
You can not afford to have another accident. Life is too precious.
 
He certainly doesn't sound like a first horse! You have been given excellent advice about building your own confidence and skills which should help but if you do go down the route of getting a 2nd horse, you absolutely MUST find a "totally bombproof" one. They do exist. When I viewed my current riding horse, I tried her on a busy A road, she completely ignored motorcycle s, buses and a huge sheep transporter. As a 2 yr old my cob walked in hand through the middle of a small town on a busy Saturday afternoon without spooking at anything. Please take time to find a horse which is not going to run off with you, consider an older ride and drive. Your horse would probably be more relaxed if he were kept with another horse.
 
ArthursMam said:
I'm a happy hacker. I'm too old for anything else!
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;And there lies the answer , you just want a happy hacker and quite clearly he is not......sell him on you cannot have a horse that size galloping the high ways....as the others have said you could both end up badly injured and next time it could involve an innocent road user.I feel for you, but kinder to sell him on and let someone take him on that can deal with a horse of his size and let you buy one that is more suited for the job you want it to do.
 
Sounds like the irish thug, too smart for his own benefit has sussed you out OP. The first six months or so of ownership invariably has a period of pushing the boundaries.

There is nothing wrong in wanting to keep him, but your husband is going to take a lot of mending and I would be surprised if he wants to get on board again, he will also be worried about you getting on an ignorant oik. In your position I would be wanting to find a good yard who would have the horse in boot camp and ask them to work the horse and give you an honest opinion of the horse.

They may well find nothing wrong with the horse but it still does not mean he will be suitable for your needs. He could simply be a horse that needs lots of work and two days hunting a week. At 10 he is in his prime, do you know how he is bred ?

If you can outline where you are based someone on here will know of yards that specialise in naughty horses.
 
Don't feel you have to keep him and risk further injury, he just may need a different job. Hunting for instance would mean he was always with others. It may be that he has never hacked alone before, he may even be better suited to a competition home. Nothing to lose advertising him honestly and seeing if you can find someone you are happy to have him.

Cross posted with Adorable Alice!!!!!
 
Although I can't tell you what to do, I would advise you to either get an experienced person to help you or to sell him and by you and your husband something more suitable. Would it help to take the donkeys along in hand? If he lives with them, then he is likely to trust them.
 
If you are set on keeping him then I would throw a bit of money at the situation, either send him off for some intensive hacking and despooking or get someone to come to you

Micky Gavin is great with this sort of thing, he is based in the East midlands and has a healthy respect for 'happy hackers' and their needs, its natural horsemanship methods with a good dose of common sense and he gets the owners involved in any training
 
I'm based in South Wales, near abergavenny. Ideally I'd prefer someone who can come to us rather than ship him off to another yard. We had an experienced rider at first come and ride a couple of times a week. He tried his luck with her also but gave up when he realised she was stronger than him. Unfortunately that didn't work out for long. He was only going out for 10 minutes and the rider was unreliable.

I appreciate your answers but selling him really isn't an option. I'm inexperienced and stupid I admit that but I'm not giving up yet.

I can also understand your concern of him harming us or a bystander but blame it on the lack of sleep and worry at the moment but I'm not finding that helpful.

Walking the donkeys with him may also be an option. He loves them both x
 
OP you say he's your first horse - how long have you and your husband been riding for? I feel as though too much blame is being put on the horse. He's in a completely new environment and needs time to adapt and to be perfectly honest my steady cob that I've owned for almost 10 years would crap himself if we encountered a chainsaw BUT we've got a bond and I know we'd work through it.

Clicker training might be a really good way to build up both your confidence and your bond!
 
Jingleballs said:
OP you say he's your first horse - how long have you and your husband been riding for? I feel as though too much blame is being put on the horse. He's in a completely new environment and needs time to adapt and to be perfectly honest my steady cob that I've owned for almost 10 years would crap himself if we encountered a chainsaw BUT we've got a bond and I know we'd work through it.

Clicker training might be a really good way to build up both your confidence and your bond!
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I don't think anyone is to "blame", the horse is not suited to the current job and riders, by getting a pro involved they will be able to help both horse and rider, if the horse really was a novice ride he would not be so overreactive in a new environment, he needs work to desensitise him which the OP is not experienced enough to do alone.

Walking the donkeys may help but they still require someone experienced to hold them and ensure they will be confident about meeting new things and not just join in with the horse, there is plenty that can be done but it needs to be productive, there have been good suggestions and some not so, the idea of the OP long reining when she probably has never done so and we have no idea whether the horse has, is a potential recipe for disaster, if he takes off with 2 reins behind him he is even more likely to hurt someone, the horse doesn't deserve to be written off but there is a lot of work ahead.
 
zigzag said:
So you won't sell him even though he is unsuitable, what are you going to do when he bolts and maybe causes an accident to another person eg a pedestrian or a person in a car?
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This.
I know many probably won't agree, but you choose to get on this horse and hack on public roads, knowing he can be uncontrollable at times. What WOULD you do should he cause an accident in which someone was killed or seriously hurt?
He is not a first horse. You said you are a happy hacker...he isn't.

ETA I echo getting a pro in to help
 
be positive said:
I don't think anyone is to "blame", the horse is not suited to the current job and riders, by getting a pro involved they will be able to help both horse and rider, if the horse really was a novice ride he would not be so overreactive in a new environment, he needs work to desensitise him which the OP is not experienced enough to do alone.
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I still disagree - what ever happened to letting a horse settle - when I moved to my current yard my horse was unsettled, became very attached to the herd and in one incident he barged out his stable, down a long drive and along a road to get back to the field. He was also unsettled on his first solo hacks. So we took it slow and within a couple of weeks I had my bombproof hack back.

Horses are not machines - they are allowed to show fear and it seems that at the moment the rider isn't sure how to cope but that doesn't mean with a bit of time things will settle.

No offence to you op but I've also seen novice riders describing their horse as having bolted when they've done no such thing - it's just felt that way. Is your husband balanced enough to cope with a napping horse? That may have contributed to the situation and getting some lessons in an arena to improve balance could help. Apologies if that's not the case - I'm just going on the limited info available. I do hope he recovers quickly though!
 
No offence taken at all Jigleballs, I appreciate your advice and that you're on the horses side.

My husband wouldn't have been balanced enough. He's only ever ridden at hacking centres on school masters and this was only his 5th time on our horse.

This is my first horse but I'm not completely new to riding. I rode almost every day between the ages of 10 and 24 ish and have now returned at 33 having had s complete break. I'm very rusty but not completely incompetent if that makes sense?
 
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