Should we buy another one?

Jingleballs said:
I still disagree - what ever happened to letting a horse settle - when I moved to my current yard my horse was unsettled, became very attached to the herd and in one incident he barged out his stable, down a long drive and along a road to get back to the field. He was also unsettled on his first solo hacks. So we took it slow and within a couple of weeks I had my bombproof hack back.

Horses are not machines - they are allowed to show fear and it seems that at the moment the rider isn't sure how to cope but that doesn't mean with a bit of time things will settle.

No offence to you op but I've also seen novice riders describing their horse as having bolted when they've done no such thing - it's just felt that way. Is your husband balanced enough to cope with a napping horse? That may have contributed to the situation and getting some lessons in an arena to improve balance could help. Apologies if that's not the case - I'm just going on the limited info available. I do hope he recovers quickly though!
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I have had many horses through my yard over the years, most settle in quickly if they are genuinely experienced in life and novice rides, there are always a few minor issues which need addressing which is why I think getting help will for the OP be the best step forward, the OP is inexperienced is trying to cope with a big possibly ignorant horse, I agree it is probably not bolting but even tanking off is not acceptable. Why not get some help from an experienced person rather than continue alone, there is no shame in getting help and it will give the horse a chance to come right.

They are not machines but should not take flight whenever they get scared, the flight instinct needs to be controlled, a novice is not going to have the tools to deal with a horse whose first instinct is to run away, which is why some training for horse and rider is required, we all need help sometimes.
 
I'm willing to try anything that may resolve the issues we have x

Riding lessons
Someone experienced to sort him out
Clicker training/humming
Spend time with him to bond
Walk him out with or without his donkey friends

I'll do it all, and so will the husband once he's meant. He's all for keeping the horse, selling isn't an option to either of us x
 
As well as lessons it may be worth getting instructor to ride out with you on his/her horse. Also get instructor to ride him out (if they are prepared to take the risk) so they know first hand what he is doing.
 
ArthursMam said:
I'm willing to try anything that may resolve the issues we have x

Riding lessons
Someone experienced to sort him out
Clicker training/humming
Spend time with him to bond
Walk him out with or without his donkey friends

I'll do it all, and so will the husband once he's meant. He's all for keeping the horse, selling isn't an option to either of us x
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That sounds like a good plan, get someone you trust involved, work towards having fun in the future and staying safe, or at least reduce the risks.
 
My first reaction to your situation would be to sell him to a more suitable home and get something more appropriate for you. However I also understand how difficult even thinking of doing that can be. I sold the love of my life horse last August after a long time of trying and really coming to terms with the fact that I had well and truly bitten off more than I could chew.
If you are able to give the situation an awful lot of thought from an emotionally detached stand point you will be able to make an honest choice.
If you are determined to keep him then getting professional help is a must.
Good luck in whatever you decide, I really hope things improve.
 
From what you've said, it sounds as though you are at home rather than a yard. Could you advertise for an experienced person with their own horse to livery with you. Instead of paying for stabling, they help you with your horse. That way you have some help, some one else to talk to, and someone experienced to hack out with.
 
It makes more sense to sell him, obviously. But here, you're not the first to put up with an unsuitable horse and you definitely won't be the last! There are three months until summer, give it all you've got with a pro on side, maybe go to livery for a while if it makes it easier (sounds like you are "home alone" - never easy when you're a bit nervous). If by the summer time you've made no progress and not enjoying him get something suitable. It's likely he will have settled a bit with you by then. If not, why would you want to keep him?
 
Sorry but to me this is craziness- the horse is not suitable for you op - your husband has been seriously injured. Sell the horse to someone else who can manage him and buy yourselves a quiet plod. Why would you keep him!
 
ArthursMam said:
I'm based in South Wales, near abergavenny. Ideally I'd prefer someone who can come to us rather than ship him off to another yard. We had an experienced rider at first come and ride a couple of times a week. He tried his luck with her also but gave up when he realised she was stronger than him. Unfortunately that didn't work out for long. He was only going out for 10 minutes and the rider was unreliable.
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she wont have been stronger than him, I agree with others that letting the horse go to a new home may well be the best and safest option but we have all at some point allowed our heart rather than our head rule a situation, if you are set on keeping him then sending him to a good quiet rider so he can be worked every day for 4 weeks and then you going and riding him there under supervision for a few weeks may just iron out your problems, many riders are unable to commit to travelling to ride a horse every day over a longer period of time due to other work. I know a few people in my area who offer this sort of service and sometimes they will tack up and ride for ten or fifteen minutes 3 times per day ecause they feel it is best for the horse. If he is a true bolter when stressed then personally I class them as not suitable for riding but if the previous rider could stop him then he was running off rather than boltig, botling is a fear response and they run blind nothing stops them. Bolters are also not 'trying their luck'
Have you spoken to the preious owners? they may have some ideas.
Coming from the coutry you would expect him to be ok(ish) with things like chain saws rather than traffic too.
I hope your husband recovers well-remember to through his hat out and cut the chin strap off, also invest in body protectors. Keep safe
 
Lots of lessons for you, if you find a good dressage instructor it could help you control him. I would also invest in a nice deep dressage saddle with big blocks (or western with bucking rolls or Australian stock saddle depending on your preferences and what you can find that fits him) and body protector and/or air jacket to boost your confidence.
Been there out of riding school and buying an unsuitable first horse. I nearly sold her when I realised I wasn't good enough to ride her but an awesome dressage instructor (rode and trained to GP) sorted us. There is hope OP but you need to learn to ride the horse. Also look up the one rein stop (basically give one rein and use the other one to bring horse's head to the girth, this desengages the hindquarters and prevent them from taking off).
 
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twiggy2 said:
I know a few people in my area who offer this sort of service and sometimes they will tack up and ride for ten or fifteen minutes 3 times per day ecause they feel it is best for the horse.
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In this case it was more like paying the person well for an hour, being told he was going for an hour and watching on the CCTV (out of curiosity of how my horse was whilst at work) that he went to the end of the road and back. A 15 minute visit which included catching, tacking up, trotting 200 yards up the road and back in the field.
I'd be happy if this was in best interest of the horse but not when it was claimed to be something it wasn't.


zigzag said:
Why isn't it an option to sell him?
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Because I love him. Simple as.
With respect, your sharpness isn't helpful.
I appreciate that your obviously a very experienced horse person and you know your stuff, and I admit that I'm new to this and probably in your eyes a lunatic, but I'm here for advice, not to be made to feel even worse than I do. If that's even possible at the moment.

Palindrome said:
Lots of lessons for you, if you find a good dressage instructor it could help you control him. I would also invest in a nice deep dressage saddle with big blocks (or western with bucking rolls or Australian stock saddle depending on your preferences and what you can find that fits him) and body protector and/or air jacket to boost your confidence.
Been there out of riding school and buying an unsuitable first horse. I nearly sold her when I realised I wasn't good enough to ride her but an awesome dressage instructor (rode and trained to GP) sorted us. There is hope OP but you need to learn to ride the horse. Also look up the one rein stop (basically give one rein and use the other one to bring horse's head to the girth, this desengages the hindquarters and prevent them from taking off).
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Thank you very much. Your story boosted my confidence that we'll get there eventually.

This isn't the horses fault. It's mine. I've returned to riding after a long break and have invested heavily in a horse that at the moment is too much for me. I hope that by improving myself then we'll have a long and happy life together.
 
ArthursMam said:
No offence taken at all Jigleballs, I appreciate your advice and that you're on the horses side.

My husband wouldn't have been balanced enough. He's only ever ridden at hacking centres on school masters and this was only his 5th time on our horse.

This is my first horse but I'm not completely new to riding. I rode almost every day between the ages of 10 and 24 ish and have now returned at 33 having had s complete break. I'm very rusty but not completely incompetent if that makes sense?
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Can you find a yard with a good trainer where he can stay for a couple of months - the staff could school him for you and you both could have lessons with the trainer? This may be expensive but will probably save you accidents in future, you may be happy hackers but both you and the horse need the discipline of learning how to deal with him.
 
Between you and your husband it does sound like you are a little over-horsed. Having been there myself, I understand what it's like.

I think you have two choices. One would be to sell him, and I know you say that's not an option, but you might want to think carefully and put emotion aside before dismissing it. If there's nothing medically wrong with the horse, he's in his prime, and could well find a lovely home and be someone else's much loved perfect horse. If he's tanking off and misbehaving, that could suggest he's not happy or settled, and if you find yourselves unable to address what's happening, his chances of finding a good home will diminish as time goes on. I know you feel people have been unkind suggesting that you shouldn't be taking him on the roads until you've got on top of things, but think about it: it's quite foreseeable that he could cause a serious traffic accident, with you or your husband on board or not, and honestly, how would you feel if that happened? I came too close to that once with my old horse, and really, the thought of what almost happened makes my blood run cold. That was the last time we ever hacked alone.

If you decide to keep him, it sounds as though you will need a lot of support for everyone to be safe. A really good, straight talking experienced instructor who will ride him to get him/keep him on the straight and narrow, lots of lessons for both of you, sounds as though you might need to consider livery so you have access to a school in order to be able to sort out yours and your husband's skills and relationship with the horse in a safe, enclosed environment, support around you and people with safe, steady horses to accompany you when you're ready to start hacking again.

It will not be cheap, you could well end up spending considerably more on sorting this out than you spent on the horse in the first place.

The other thing with being over horsed is that you might need to accept you will never be able to do certain things with this horse, whereas you would with something more suitable. For me, with my first horse (another big boy like yours) that meant we couldn't really jump, we couldn't safely hack alone, no sponsored rides or similar, and I had to dramatically scale back my aspirations (which tbh probably weren't very realistic to start with) about what we might achieve in the school. Now I was okay with that, he taught me masses and I wouldn't have changed a thing, but there probably aren't many people who would have taken the same view. And it did affect my confidence in my ability as a rider in ways that I am only now fully realising and coming through.

Whatever you decide to do, very best of luck, and I hope your husband is better soon
 
I have two ID's and love the breed but a badly started ID is a dangerous thing .
I would without hesitation advise you to get rid this of this horse .
At ten it will be hard to turn him round .
If you keep him ŷou must never ever allow him to hack alone and I just don't think it reasonable to take a horse who bolts into public places and risk injury to people innocently going about the place .
They can be the gentlest boldest most sensible horses ever foaled but once spoilt they can be very dangerous .
 
WelshD said:
If you are set on keeping him then I would throw a bit of money at the situation, either send him off for some intensive hacking and despooking or get someone to come to you

Micky Gavin is great with this sort of thing, he is based in the East midlands and has a healthy respect for 'happy hackers' and their needs, its natural horsemanship methods with a good dose of common sense and he gets the owners involved in any training
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This.

I understand you want to keep the horse, we do get very attached to them! But I would second this reccomendation. Send the horse away for a month or so for some intensive hacking by a pro, get them to test him in every way, open spaces, alone, in company, at speed, at walk etc. Then before you take the horse back go and have lessons on him, learn to ride him, learn to suss out when he is going to do anything silly and learn to react to it before he realises what he wants to do!
 
Are you sure he's physically ok especially his back .
I say this because I have know two horses who did this inappropriate spooking behaviour and both turned out to have very back backs.
It's like they go I am coping with the pain I am coping with the pain , but I can't cope with and that chainsaw and flip .
 
Oh dear, I'm going through an almost identical dilemma to the OP........... my cob is a 19 yo lunatic who's been just AWFUL to deal with this winter, and now my trusty friend who loves him to bits and rode him for me at weekends has just told me she really doesn't feel she can anymore because of his behaviour. I've had professional help with him in the past, i.e. someone coming to ride out with me and deal with the issues as they arise, and I heartily recommend this (that's the next step, to go back to the professional we've used in the past and see what we can achieve, but ultimately, if we cannot, then I'm seriously looking at the PTS option as I can't sell him, would struggle to loan him, and the rider he's had to sort him out has said no sorry she's lost her confidence to ride him and I don't have what it takes either). His issue is that my mare, who's ridden out with him and friend, is currently out of work, so he's had to hack solo, and is just not dealing with it, hence the behaviour - tanking (OK so only in walk, but he makes it very obvious that he COULD and would do it in trot/canter), spooking randomly, napping etc. I won't sell him, firstly because of his age and secondly because his behaviour is such that he'd soon be sent off to fill a dog tin.

So I'm looking for another horse (mare) to hack out with him and friend, and also be a field companion for him as he's out on his own as well which isn't helping the general situation. Basically my mare probably won't come back into work, and I'm looking to get something younger where I could mebbe do TREC and/or endurance, but suspect that the whole upset of cobby not having his mare in the field and riding out with him, has unsettled him to quite a large degree and the behaviour is the evidence of it.

So understand your dilemma OP: agree with others that maybe this isn't the horse for you, but IF you're committed to keeping him then would suggest a thorough appraisal by a professional and/or remedial work as needed. Don't try to go it alone, you'll only lose your confidence and/or injure yourself, basically. The problem is that when horses like this get rude, it takes a helluva effort to get them right again, as cobs in particular know very well how to use their sheer weight and presence against you.
 
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If you've got your own land you've also got the opportunity to do some desensitizing work in the field. Once the weather is dryer and you can ride in there you can borrow people and stuff eg chainsaw, motorbike, log pile covered in flapping tarpaulin etc and introduce him to them initially switched off/still and then from a safe distance running/moving and gradually ride him closer as he becomes used to it. He might still spook at something unexpected on a hack but hopefully it'll be a smaller spook at the sudden surprise and not panic at the thing itself.
 
OP, my friend, who has ridden regularly for most of her life but TBH isn't the best rider you might see, has struggled with her ID for 8 years, he's now rising 10. He had her off twice last week and i won't bore you with the list of injuries she's sustained over the years. She, like you, blames herself for his bad behaviour and frankly she's right to do so, he needs a competent, confident owner who gives clear boundaries and deals with any issues that arise fairly but firmly. She's not that person. Seeing her hobbling around bruised and battered yet again I think I've finally persuaded her to sell him and find the happy hacker that she'd enjoy. She loves him and she's worried for his future because with each year he's become more difficult. TBH if he'd been in a suitable home he'd be fine. If you love your horse you owe it to him to find him a home where he will thrive and improve and frankly from what you have said, yours isn't right for him. I am sorry to be blunt but having the experience of watching a friend be injured on numerous occasions (and not having any fun) and having seen a perfectly good horse deteriorate because he's in the wrong home, I feel very strongly about it.
 
oh, ArthursMam, I really feel for you. I'm all for sticking by a horse once you've got him, and I've got a few myself that I don't think many others would be bothered with ... but I think you have to be so careful here. I've read some of your other posts, the ones about bits, and Arthur spinning and you falling on concrete ... and now your poor husband has had a bad injury. Honestly, from the outside, this makes for very scary reading. We may think we are doing the right thing, but there's no price can be put on our health and well-being. Please do some research and send him to a good professional who can work with both you and the horse, and please don't let your heart rule your head. If you have any doubts, and you truly can't bring yourself to sell him, then let him be a field ornament and love him for that, and get a totally bombproof hack for you and your husband (although it seems to me that finding these totally bombproof hacks is not that easy, as reading the ad for Arthur he was sold as suitable for a novice). I also think that more lessons for you both would be really beneficial - ride different horses in different environments, and possibly even consider some simulator and lunge lessons for your position and stability. Your husband will take time to recover from his injuries and need to rebuild strength and muscle tone as well, so maybe look at some of the 'on the ground' exercises to help him regain core strength and improve his stability. I would also say that even when Arthur is back from the pros, you could do lots on the ground with him esp if you have your own ground ... with my lad I'm working on leading, and then long-lining over obstacles, as well as leading out in hand, and building out to long-lining out in the open - he hasn't done anything terrible at all though, I can just see he is genuinely worried and lacking confidence and want to help him build his confidence up in his new surroundings. And it is improving our trust and relationship working this way. All good luck for whatever you decide, but please stay safe and don't take risks. I would also second the idea of a full body check to rule out pain, check teeth if they have not been already done - if he spooks and an unbalanced rider yanks him in the mouth, that could cause further problems if his mouth is not comfortable, and also back and saddle checks - again, the horse may cope with low level pain, but if something happens which causes a sudden movement or jerk the extra overload of pain could well be increasing his tendency to take flight.
 
OP you need some help :)

In your situation I would look for someone who can come out and work with you on all aspects - groundwork and manners, long reining, riding - basically everything. Some of the Kelly Marks books may also help - perfect manners and perfect partnership may have some good pointers for you but it would be much better if you had an experienced helper there with you. Sending him away would probably help him but might not necessarily help you and the horse as a partnership.

It seems in some situations he is taking charge and that's clearly not acceptable - but that could be because he doesn't trust you - by example my younger mare can be a real mardy and would want to do a complete spin and run for home if she really didn't like something - but she doesn't. She may not go past whatever the monster is at first but she will stand calmly until I reassure her and if she still won't go past then will stand nicely while I dismount, lead her past whatever the monster is, and then get back on. The monsters are getting less and less all the time. She is only a youngster however. My older mare will go past pretty much anything but can still be upset by certain things and I'm sure at a chainsaw we would have had a spin round - she wouldn't however have even tried to tank off - she may have got a few steps but she would have then stood when asked. However, if she had someone on board who wouldn't have been able to stop her tanking off would she have done - too damn right she would! Yet with me she is a very safe hack and we go pretty much anywhere (apart from main roads in rush hour traffic although we have done that).

I'd also get everything checked to rule out pain - teeth, back, bloods and saddle are the obvious ones - did you have him vetted when you bought him?
 
I'd get another one that you could both enjoy and that your husband can learn on. Totally sympathise with your not wanting to sell, good forever homes for horses are not exactly thick on the ground - but better him be a field ornament while you enjoy something safe than lose your nerve/get seriously hurt.
 
Well I've thought long and hard about this. Please bear in mind that I come from a point of view of having had life changing injuries due to a horse riding accident.

My blood ran cold when I read your first posts as I could sadly see the accident coming. I really hope that your husband makes a full recovery with no lasting issues.

If I was in your position and I was determined to keep this horse, I would retire it. Luckily you have your own land, so can do so with minimal cost. I would get him health checked, just to be sure that he doesn't have a back issue for example, just to make sure that he's comfortable and pain free. I used to have a retired racehorse who was a nanny for my youngsters and I got a huge amount of pleasure from looking after her, even though I never rode her, so in my eyes he would still have value despite never being ridden.

I would then have a good hard think about what was really needed in a riding horse given that your husband is a complete novice (the 'go' and 'woah' comment speaks volumes here) and that you have had a long break. Do you really need such a great big, powerful horse? I would rather have something chunkier and shorter if rider height or weight is an issue. Write down a list of 'must haves' and 'would be nices' that take into account where you are now, not where you will be in a year. Then stick to the 'must haves' when you search for a new horse.

I managed to find one that hacks over motorway bridges, underpasses, heavy traffic, quiet lanes, open fields, alone or in company with a disabled rider. They are out there, but they do take some searching out.

I wish you lots of luck.
 
We have a RID who is the most gorgeous loving person to handle on the ground and in the stable. He loves fuss and kisses.
Once you get on him he turns into a horse exactly like yours We have had him since he was three and bought him from his breeder in Ireland.
He is spooky, nappy, unpredictable, very sharp and he bolts with no chance of stopping him when he gets a fright.
Both my husband and I have had several falls from him and my husband had a terrible fall out hacking which resulted in emergency surgery for his injuries.

As Oldie48 has described her friends ID ours is the same. The problem was that we are reasonable riders but not nearly good enough for a sharp, spooky ID.
We sent him away to a pro yard for reschooling where he did brilliantly but he tried the same things with them even once jumping out of the sand school. They were able to deal with him appropriately and never had a repeat performance.
The people at the pro yard love him but we cant afford to keep him there so he is home and being a field ornament which stops my husband from buying a suitable horse for himself as we have neither room or money to feed another mouth.

Just a final word on the bolting. The last time I hacked him, two years ago, all was going swimmingly when he suddenly stopped and looked across the fields. Nothing to be seen, nothing to spook at, nothing to run away from. Then he softened as though he was going to walk on. I squeezed my leg to ask him to walk on when without any warning he spun and bolted. I was ditched out the side door and landed heavily on my back breaking two ribs. He galloped back along the track so fast that when he got to a bend he must have fallen heavily trying to get round so fast. He destroyed the saddle and seriously injured himself in the process and we had to call the vet to treat his injuries. Had I not have fallen off when he spun I reckon I would hve been gravely injured if not killed by his falling on me at that speed. It makes me feel sick to think of it when I look back. I am so glad I fell off. He has never been hacked since as this was the 4th time he had bolted.

We love him dearly and would never sell him to an uncertain future. We would loan him to a very competent competition home but for us who just wanted a happy hacker he is dangerous.

Don't get hurt again. He sounds like an unsuitable horse. It's sad but it happens. Let him go to someone who an ride without worry and get yourselves something more appropriate.
 
Faracat said:
Well I've thought long and hard about this. Please bear in mind that I come from a point of view of having had life changing injuries due to a horse riding accident.

My blood ran cold when I read your first posts as I could sadly see the accident coming. I really hope that your husband makes a full recovery with no lasting issues.

If I was in your position and I was determined to keep this horse, I would retire it. Luckily you have your own land, so can do so with minimal cost. I would get him health checked, just to be sure that he doesn't have a back issue for example, just to make sure that he's comfortable and pain free. I used to have a retired racehorse who was a nanny for my youngsters and I got a huge amount of pleasure from looking after her, even though I never rode her, so in my eyes he would still have value despite never being ridden.

I would then have a good hard think about what was really needed in a riding horse given that your husband is a complete novice (the 'go' and 'woah' comment speaks volumes here) and that you have had a long break. Do you really need such a great big, powerful horse? I would rather have something chunkier and shorter if rider height or weight is an issue. Write down a list of 'must haves' and 'would be nices' that take into account where you are now, not where you will be in a year. Then stick to the 'must haves' when you search for a new horse.

I managed to find one that hacks over motorway bridges, underpasses, heavy traffic, quiet lanes, open fields, alone or in company with a disabled rider. They are out there, but they do take some searching out.

I wish you lots of luck.
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^^^^^^This!! You are too over horsed. Better to sell
Him now before you get too attatched. If you love him as much as you say, you will do what's best for him and you and sell him to a more Suitable home. Sorry if it's harsh but I too have had to make this decision over a year ago and had my mare for 3 years so I know it's difficult and you are probably feeling like you have let him down. But you haven't.

The weight off your shoulders you will feel instantly tho. Life's too short to risk injury like what your husband has, and frankly i think he got off lightly bless him, it could have been much worse. We all take risks when getting on any horse but ATM your putting yourself knowingly at high risk with this horse, and as others have said, this horse is probably going to be very limited on what you can and can't do without pushing either of you outside your comfort zones depending on his nature. Horses are too expensive to not get as much as you possibly can out of them, and this is not the right horse for either of You.
Everyone on here is thinking of you and your horses safety when they tell you to sell, sitting on the outside is much easier to distinguish between what you want to achieve and what is realistic to achieve. Hope this helps
 
In my defence, I did set out to buy a bombproof horse. Obviously the full ad has disappeared offline now but I have the full description photographed (I'm just not sure how to add photographs if anyone can help)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas.../epsom/162hh-10yo-id-type-gelding-473651.html

The full add is much more descriptive of how safe, sane and bombproof he is. That he was owned by a 70 year old man and that he's a safe hacker.

I am appreciative for all of your advice. I will take this all on board but I intend to fix myself first and work on our relationship before I just give up and sell up.

You all know horses so much more than me and looking in from outside the box I can totally appreciate your views. But in the short time we've been together, I know my horse, I know how gentle he is and I know it will work out eventually.

K x
 
ArthursMam said:
In my defence, I did set out to buy a bombproof horse. Obviously the full ad has disappeared offline now but I have the full description photographed (I'm just not sure how to add photographs if anyone can help)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas.../epsom/162hh-10yo-id-type-gelding-473651.html

The full add is much more descriptive of how safe, sane and bombproof he is. That he was owned by a 70 year old man and that he's a safe hacker.

I am appreciative for all of your advice. I will take this all on board but I intend to fix myself first and work on our relationship before I just give up and sell up.

You all know horses so much more than me and looking in from outside the box I can totally appreciate your views. But in the short time we've been together, I know my horse, I know how gentle he is and I know it will work out eventually.

K x
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I do not wish to be unkind but you are being wholly unrealistic .
However gentle he is on the ground he's a dangerous horse when he's being ridden out .
And , and I don't say this lightly your judgement is lacking your novice OH should never have been on the horse in an open area it was a crazy and dangerous thing to do.
What investigations has the horse had to rule out pain as a trigger for his behaviour .
 
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