Should we buy another one?

Goldenstar said:
I do not wish to be unkind but you are being wholly unrealistic .
However gentle he is on the ground he's a dangerous horse when he's being ridden out .
And , and I don't say this lightly your judgement is lacking your novice OH should never have been on the horse in an open area it was a crazy and dangerous thing to do.
What investigations has the horse had to rule out pain as a trigger for his behaviour .
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This! Your lucky your OH isnt dead or permanently disabled. And I say this as someone who is permanently disabled as the result of a stupid decision.
 
Well he won't be the first horse to have been miss sold nor will he be the last to test boundaries in a new home. He may well be a safe hack with an experienced rider and i know 70 year olds who still hunt, compete BE and will sit on pretty much anything. Actually the ad says "owned" by a 70 yr old, doesn't say ridden? If you are intent on keeping him, I sincerely hope you can get the professional help to straighten him out and keep him on the straight and narrow, but I don't think he'll ever be a horse that you'll trust completely. Most of us have been there, you know. I bought a lovely horse, he was great in company and lovely to handle but once moved to my yard with only my daughter's pony for company he became extremely nappy and developed separation anxiety. I struggled on for a while as I could usually ride in company, then he started to get tricky to get out of the field unless I took the pony as well. It was escalating so although I'd owned him for the best part of a year, I knew I didn't have the experience to sort him out.I sold to a someone who was going to keep him on a big professional yard. He was a changed horse, ridden by professionals during the week and unable to fixate on one other horse he turned the corner and his new owner had a lot of fun with him. When he went I felt as if a huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders! UOTE=ArthursMam;13192800]In my defence, I did set out to buy a bombproof horse. Obviously the full ad has disappeared offline now but I have the full description photographed (I'm just not sure how to add photographs if anyone can help)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas.../epsom/162hh-10yo-id-type-gelding-473651.html

The full add is much more descriptive of how safe, sane and bombproof he is. That he was owned by a 70 year old man and that he's a safe hacker.

I am appreciative for all of your advice. I will take this all on board but I intend to fix myself first and work on our relationship before I just give up and sell up.

You all know horses so much more than me and looking in from outside the box I can totally appreciate your views. But in the short time we've been together, I know my horse, I know how gentle he is and I know it will work out eventually.

K x[/QUOTE]
 
Tbh I would contact the sellers and tell them what has been going on ( If they care to listen) they may care, they may not. But they also might be shocked to hear what you say about him and may take him back. That quite frankly is a lot of money to pay for something that is not suitable for your purpose. You have mentioned a few things that scream alarm bells about your knowledge, as goldenstar says, your OH shouldn't have been on him in that situation. What's next For Either of
You? A broken neck? Death? All this in the name of 2 month love. What happens if you both have an injury at the same time? Who will look after the horse then? You have to think of all eventualities. This is one of the things that helped me make the disunion of my unpredictable mare.
 
Go back to the dealer (I see a few ads from that seller) and tell them what is going on. I know that yard and presume it is someone renting a few boxes from WGH and doing a bit of dealing on the side. The advert clearly says that the horse is safe and sane and suitable for a novice so I can see why you went for him but clearly he is not and I think you would have a very good case for refund.

Hope your husband is OK, very nasty accident from an expensive horse suitable for a novice. 'Well hunted in Ireland for 4 years' could mean 'dragged off the bog and given a bath'.
 
The ad describes him as suitable for a novice, not a beginner. The fact the ad stated that the horse was bold out hunting would put me off. I'd agree with the others - contact the dealer and see about an exchange. I hadn't realised this was a horse that had come from a dealer that you had only had for 2 months.
 
ArthursMam said:
I'm based in South Wales, near abergavenny. Ideally I'd prefer someone who can come to us rather than ship him off to another yard. We had an experienced rider at first come and ride a couple of times a week. He tried his luck with her also but gave up when he realised she was stronger than him. Unfortunately that didn't work out for long. He was only going out for 10 minutes and the rider was unreliable.

I appreciate your answers but selling him really isn't an option. I'm inexperienced and stupid I admit that but I'm not giving up yet.

I can also understand your concern of him harming us or a bystander but blame it on the lack of sleep and worry at the moment but I'm not finding that helpful.

Walking the donkeys with him may also be an option. He loves them both x
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Firstly, no person is stronger than a horse especially a big 17hh ID. She probably had more skill and experience than either yourself or your oh.

And as for finding the injuring a bystander " not helpful" then you need to wake up and realise that there's a good possibility that it might happen! If you are not in control and that horse bolts or chucks you off and ends up on the bonnet of a car or knocking someone over potentially killing them then you will have to live with that for the rest of your life. And I speak from experience - ive seen a horse go headlong in to a car and it was horrific. . Horse died, kids in the car crying and upset, utter pandemonium and then the farmer having to come and scrap the dead horse up on the front of the tractor to get it out of the road.
 
And of course the whole ad could just be a lie. I'd bet money on him being bought cheap in Ireland and then sold on quickly at a huge mark up. What was he like when you tried him OP?
 
EQUIDAE said:
The ad describes him as suitable for a novice, not a beginner. The fact the ad stated that the horse was bold out hunting would put me off. I'd agree with the others - contact the dealer and see about an exchange. I hadn't realised this was a horse that had come from a dealer that you had only had for 2 months.
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I did not realise the horse was from a dealer and as little as two months ago .
OP ring them at once and get the horse back to them .
 
FrankieCob said:
And of course the whole ad could just be a lie. I'd bet money on him being bought cheap in Ireland and then sold on quickly at a huge mark up. What was he like when you tried him OP?
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Won't be the first or last time
He's not an RID so that's a big price for that type of horse .
 
FrankieCob said:
And of course the whole ad could just be a lie. I'd bet money on him being bought cheap in Ireland and then sold on quickly at a huge mark up. What was he like when you tried him OP?
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Something about this thread is starting to ring bells - I have a funny feeling that the OP only tried the horse in the school at the yard and never actually hacked it. I recall something about taking the horse there and then? OP correct me if I am wrong - was this you?
 
Aside from anything else OP as a lot of people have made very valid comments and I agree with the fact that he should be sold he is a big horse for a total beginner and dangerous for the two of you to handle on your own. Personally I think having seen that he hunted in Ireland may say it all, he sounds like a big bold horse that requires plenty of riding.

That aside if you get an instructor please be aware that the best ones may also advise you to retire or sell and get something more suitable, hopefully they will still help you though, if you do not agree with them then that is fine but an instructor who does not see these problems may not be the most suitable for this situation.
 
ArthursMam said:
I appreciate your answers but selling him really isn't an option. I'm inexperienced and stupid I admit that but I'm not giving up yet.
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Stupidity is not knowing when you're beaten but this isn't even a case of 'giving up', more a case of making a responsible decision. I know you said up thread that you 'love him' but really, putting your own feelings aside might be best here...

ArthursMam said:
I can also understand your concern of him harming us or a bystander but blame it on the lack of sleep and worry at the moment but I'm not finding that helpful.
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...and here too. You might not want to accept the reality of the danger this horse poses but he does pose a risk to you, your husband and very much to the public, like it or not. I've been present through some quite horrific accidents, including the death of a friend via a horse. I'm sure many of us have borne witness to (or been involved in) serious accidents and you yourself have seen first hand the harm an out of control, half ton animal can cause - so, why are you not taking this more seriously? Taking him out with your donkeys is all well and good but if he does bomb off, how are you planning to stop him? Please do consider returning him or retiring him if you must hold on to him (which I think would be a shame for him, given he might go well for someone else).
 
I wonder OP how long you think you will have hand walk a 17 heavy weight Irish hunter ( with donkeys ) in order to give him enough exercise I suppose three hours a day might do it .
 
I've occasionally commented to (usually non-horsey) friends that the way some horse people talk about their horses makes it sound as if they're in an abusive relationship and OP fits the bill. Loving a horse is not enough when it is dangerous enough to cause serious injury to your husband and you evidently don't have the skills to cope with it. It doesn't particularly matter that you believe him to be 'gentle' - regardless of how he behaves on the ground - when he is acting so dangerously under saddle. Yes, he may be settling in, yes, he may come right with time - but equally he may not, or at least may not with you, and in the meantime it sounds as if there's a not insignificant chance of him causing someone else (or himself) another serious injury. Accepting that he is not the horse for you is not the same thing as giving up - it's being realistic about your own abilities and about the horse.
 
It sounds like you have had a nasty fall with this horse too OP, I was going to ask how he was bitted.

ArthursMam said:
Good Afternoon,

This is my first post ;-)

I've become the proud new Mammy of an extremely strong Irish Draught. He's my first horse following around a 15 year break from riding and we've had a few initial teething problems with the settling period.

Things seem to have settled a little more now and I'm feeling more confident in riding him.

Please ignore my very poor knowledge on the use of bits. My old training taught me that bitting up was not the best option but following 3 very scary rides when I had zero breaks, landed on my face on concrete and Arthur spun and spun, riding him became terrifying. He would have become an ornament in the paddock which would have been unfair to his potential.

He was sold with a snaffle bit. He behaved very well for the first week but started napping for his new friends and became uncontrollable. Out of desperation a friend gave us her Cheltenham gag which changed my life!

So, my problem. The friend needs her Cheltenham bit back and I've purchased my own. The one I have been using is a metal Cheltenham gag and the one I have purchased is a rubber solid Cheltenham gag.

My question is...... will there be a significant difference in my control?

I really cannot land on my head again!

Also, the forum has provided me with so much reassurance when I've been so stressed about him settling and just wanted to say thank you to you all.

x x
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I think it is best foolish and at worst dangerous for you to keep this chap and I would be contacting the dealer asap as not fit for purpose he was sold for. It is possible they thought he was a novice ride, and that may have been the case when he was hunting a lot too but right now he really isn't and however much you love him it is only a 2 month attachment and you would likely love something else, and stay safe.
 
Just putting it out there to the OP : Having a horse misbehave when ridden doesn't make him "bad" - it just means he's not a fit with the rider. My horse used to petrify me and used to properly bolt - he was a saint on the ground but it boiled down to the fact that I couldn't give him the confidence he needed when being ridden. He went to a professional for a very long time and it cost a fortune. I was an experienced rider and we have now got him back but what I have learnt is that it is DANGEROUS to overhorse yourself. As a novice or beginner rider this is an accident waiting to happen. Common sense needs to prevail here.

Either commit to sending him away or move him onto a different rider.
 
I am very impressed in the responses forum members have given to this post.
It really annoys me that so little exposure is done with young horses these days to ensure that they do not react to basic things like cars, lorries, tractors dogs chain saws etc.
My first horse ( a basic tri-coloured skewbald cob) was ridden by itself through the centre of London and did not react to anything (Oxford Circus, Regent Street, Piccadily Circus, Trafalgar Square, Park Lane and Hyde Park). Why are young horses so badly trained these days?
I do appreciate that some horses do not have a quiet laid back temperament and will never cope with being hacked out by themselves.
I very much hope that the original poster will after having a good think about this find themselves a more suitable quiet horse which will look after them and not endanger other members of the public.
 
Oh OP, I feel for you. Having read all 8 pages of this thread I have to agree that it would be best to return him or retire him and find yourself something quieter and safer. Keeping horses is an expensive hobby - and it's supposed to be fun!!!!
 
OP you sound so much like I was with my previous horse...though I bought mine as a mistreated 2 year old and he'd just turned 5 at the time of sale.
I loved that horse so very much BUT I had also just a few months before learned the hardest lesson I will ever learn in my life.
My severely disabled 6 year old daughter went into respiratory arrest and I had to decide if she should go on life support or be allowed to go peacefully there and then. In that moment I knew that loving someone is NEVER EVER enough....all the love in the world would not fetch my little girl back....but I loved her enough to let her go.
A couple of months down the line when my beloved horse bucked me off and broke my ankle and wrist I finally realised that loving him just wasn't enough. At the time part of me couldn't have cared less if the boy killed me having lost my daughter but the sensible part of me wanted him to become the best he could be even if it wasnt with me. I lived him too much to allow him to be ruined by me. I am in touch with his new owner and they are fantastic together...I'm so proud of them both.
I apologise if my post seems a little melodramatic for the situation but I'm just trying to explain, in a clumsy way, that just because you love him doesn't mean he's the right one, and sometimes loving them means giving them a proper chance at life before they lead a life of misery being labelled as dangerous. X
 
OP, I have de-lurked for the first time in about 5 years to post on your thread, as I have been so worried reading everything that you have written about Arthur. He is beautiful, and I can see why you "love" him but I think your judgement may be clouded by your excitement at owning a horse again after a long break, and owning such a stunning horse. I honestly think both you and your husband are over horsed with him. I would be too, he sounds like a very big ride. He may be someone else's perfect horse, I'm sure he is talented and bold out hunting etc. But I really came on here to beg you to please, please not put yourself in danger again, don't ride out alone until you have much more control. I'm actually genuinely worried for you.

And yes, if you have money space and time, do get another safer, calmer and more predictable horse. But do it for yourself, so you can enjoy riding again, not for Arthur.

Horses are a very expensive way to be miserable if you have the wrong horse. Consider talking to the dealer you bought him from at least, they may offer an exchange if they value their reputation.
 
He behaved very well for the first week but started napping for his new friends and became uncontrollable.
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...-we-buy-another-one/page8#84SkZxFpSUb6YRm4.99

OP - quite a few of you comments lead me to think this horse is desperately insecure and the slightest thing is "setting him off". I think he needs a confident, competent rider who he can take his confidence and direction from. It seems he isn't getting the confidence he needs from you or your husband ... and are you really going to feel confident getting back on after what happened to your OH? It sounds as if he has done a fair bit of hunting in Ireland, which probably means he has been ridden by competent riders - even at 70 - who will be able to cope with him ... and also that he will have done a fair bit of work as in hunting regularly and getting fit for the job - so the change to trundling around with two novices on his own is probably a huge culture shock for him. I think you might be setting yourself an impossibly difficult, expensive and heart-breaking task to turn this horse into a trundle-round-the-lanes plod that it sounds like you - and especially your husband - needs. If the horse has enjoyed his previous existence, and it has suited him, it would be a shame to deprive him of that. If I were you (and I have thought hard about this, as I bought my lad in December, and love him dearly, even though he is not *exactly* as described), I would look to return him or sell him. My boy lacks confidence, but he is only 15hh and has never used his strength against me, or tanked off. Even when scared he does his very best to hold it together. If he had injured me, or my OH as badly as your husband has been injured, or posed a serious risk to my safety, or the safety of other members of the public, I would, with a heavy heart, be accepting that this was not meant to be and looking to rehome him in the most responsible way possible - either returning him to his sellers, or advertising him as honestly as possible, as a big strong horse, suitable for confident and experienced riders. If you think of nothing else imagine how you would feel if this horse got away from you and was seriously injured or even killed in a resulting accident. Sometimes love really does mean letting go.
 
Would you take your car out for a drive if there was a good chance it would go out of control and speed off in any direction it wanted with the potential to crash into other people or cars ? No - you wouldn't- because you would see the danger to yourself and also more importantly to innocent road users.

You need to get over the 'i love him though' excuse. If you truly loved him, you'd want to see him matched to a suitable owner where he feels confident and he can be with someone who is the right fit for him. What you are is fond and attached, but it's making you blind and you are not doing yourself or him any favours.

If he's been hunted for four full seasons, the chances are he is a forward going active horse whose had very little schooling but who enjoys galloping around the countryside in a group. You want a safe happy hacker, he isn't that. You are being absolutely blind to the issue as you don't want to face it. You say he is 100% to ride, but that he's scared of sheep and cars that come close. Both of which you will encounter daily when you hack. He is not the horse you need. And loving him isn't going to make him the horse you need, or you the rider that he needs.

You can pump in money and energy for schooling him, training you to ride properly, probably more injuries on the way and realistically not being able to hack like you want to for a few years probably. Or you can sell him to a nice hunting home that'd he'd enjoy and get a horse who loves hacking and who is happy with that job.
 
EQUIDAE said:
You've linked back to this thread :( I was sure there was another thread around somewhere though.
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I've just copied from the link posted by someone else. This comment came from the OP's first post where she asks about changing the horse's bit due to lack of control. She has started a couple of other threads, but I've not seen a post that says she didn't get the chance to try him properly ...
 
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I think he sounds dangerous for you to hack. Did he only hack in his previous home? Have you contacted them to tell them your problem? He might have not hacked much before or only ever in company etc. so perhaps finding this out will help work out why he's so scared? A horse that bolts is extremely dangerous. One of mine bolted twice down the road in my first 6 months of owning him - the second time he did it he ditched me and galloped along the road home. I stopped hacking from this day onwards because I was terrified that he could have hit a car. I only hacked him in company after that and he was a dream, it was only on his own that he was so edgy. He was however a fantastic competition horse so thats what he did and he was the perfect horse for me, and I still have him - now retired at 18yrs old. So what Im saying is, some horses dont suit certain jobs - yours might not be a happy hacker?
 
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