Should we buy another one?

alliwantforchristmas said:
I've just copied from the link posted by someone else. This comment came from the OP's first post where she asks about changing the horse's bit due to lack of control. She has started a couple of other threads, but I've not seen a post that says she didn't get the chance to try him properly ...
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It was me that quoted the post about bitting. Nowhere has the OP said she didn't try him properly I don't think.
 
ester said:
It was me that quoted the post about bitting. Nowhere has the OP said she didn't try him properly I don't think.
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EQUIDAE seems to think the OP only tried the horse in a school, but I've not seen that.

Looking at the orignal (smaller ad)posted, it would seem this horse has hunted for four seasons, and done SJ and DR. He doesn't seem like an ideal happy hacker.
 
ester said:
It was me that quoted the post about bitting. Nowhere has the OP said she didn't try him properly I don't think.
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The situation sounds so familiar - I'm not sure whether it was on here or one of the facebook pages, it may even be someone else totally I guess... The situation that sounds familiar is a horse bought from a dealer as bomb proof for a novice husband to hack (the picture of the horse looked familiar). Said horse was totally unsuitable but it turned out the buyer did themselves no favours as they only tried the horse in the school and I think, took the horse away with them there and then. It may be someone totally different but the timeline, horse and novice hacking husband fits. I just wish I could find the thread/post.

OP I apologise if this wasn't you of course.
 
SatansLittleHelper said:
OP you sound so much like I was with my previous horse...though I bought mine as a mistreated 2 year old and he'd just turned 5 at the time of sale.
I loved that horse so very much BUT I had also just a few months before learned the hardest lesson I will ever learn in my life.
My severely disabled 6 year old daughter went into respiratory arrest and I had to decide if she should go on life support or be allowed to go peacefully there and then. In that moment I knew that loving someone is NEVER EVER enough....all the love in the world would not fetch my little girl back....but I loved her enough to let her go.
A couple of months down the line when my beloved horse bucked me off and broke my ankle and wrist I finally realised that loving him just wasn't enough. At the time part of me couldn't have cared less if the boy killed me having lost my daughter but the sensible part of me wanted him to become the best he could be even if it wasnt with me. I lived him too much to allow him to be ruined by me. I am in touch with his new owner and they are fantastic together...I'm so proud of them both.
I apologise if my post seems a little melodramatic for the situation but I'm just trying to explain, in a clumsy way, that just because you love him doesn't mean he's the right one, and sometimes loving them means giving them a proper chance at life before they lead a life of misery being labelled as dangerous. X
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Very pertinent, insightful points, and I'm so sorry for your loss SLH xxx
 
OMG, this thread is terrifying. We have a 17h Irish Draft who is a total darling and complete gentleman, but I shudder to think of putting a complete beginner on him to hack out on a public road. OP, you are not doing this horse a favour by keeping him - let him go somewhere where he can do the job he was bred for, where he can hunt, jump, perform, and enjoy life to the full. We all get blindly emotional about our own horses, but surely the horrific accident to your partner is sufficient wake-up call to the fact that you simply don't have the experience to manage this particular horse. I'd go as far as to say that if, god forbid, there were another accident causing injury to a third party you could find yourself accused not
merely of being irresponsible, but actually of being criminally negligent given all the very good advice you are getting from very experienced horse owners and what you have experienced. Get a pair of bomb-proof cobs of a sensible size around 15h that you can enjoy together, hack to the pub, tie them up outside, have a drink, hack home, love them. The big horse will find a fantastic, experienced home, and you will be happy and safe.
 
Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
 
ArthursMam said:
Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
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Do you think it's ok for a half ton animals to be galloping uncontrollably down a road and risk injuring other road users or crashing into a car? While the rider could be realistically be killed or seriously injured?

Because thats the basic situation that is described.

The poster has little or no control over the horse and is a danger to herself and other road users. This situation will only get worse and the defense of 'but i love the horse' won't solve the problem.
 
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What?!
Bullies?!
She came here for advice and that's what she's getting. I haven't seen one person be nasty to her. No one has kicked her but many people are incredibly concerned about all of yours safety.
 
I know I posted before, giving you the name of someone who may be able to help but the more I read of this, the more I think you need to send him back - for his sake as much as yours. He is telling you he's unhappy through his behaviour. I'm not for one second saying it's your fault, sometimes it just doesn't work out, but happy, confident horses just don't do this.

It's a cliché but if you really do love him you have to let him go and give him a chance with someone who can deal with him. It's not giving up on him, it's the opposite. It's letting him have a chance of a life he's better suited to.
 
ArthursMam said:
Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
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Actually, most people are trying to prevent her getting herself (or you) killed by continuing to ride a horse that is frankly dangerous in its present state. I'd say that's the opposite of 'kicking her to death'.
 
no one is bullying anyone.

if you dont want to hear that the horse is too much for you (and he may be beautiful and loving and talented in other areas but he is not, and never will be from the sounds of it, an easy hack) then fine. but the liability rests with you if he kills or injures an innocent 3rd party when out of control.

what about if he kills or permanently disables one of you? or kills himself chucking you off and running under a lorry? will the love have been worth it then?

you need to open your eyes to what could go (badly) wrong here.
 
ArthursMam said:
Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
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Wrong. Nothing but sound advice here from some very experienced riders and owners. Your Wife wanted advice and that is exactly what she has received. Burying your heads in the sand is foolish and next time you come off perhaps might not be so lucky. You would do well to take heed of this advice and reconsider your seemingly blind faith that this horse will come good. Sometimes admitting defeat is the hardest thing to do, but you and your wife's safety must come first.

Sadly I feel all this good advice will fall on deaf ears. I wish the both of you luck.
 
OP I think you have bought the wrong horse...you are not the first to do this and you definitely won't be the last!
I know you love him and it's very hard to let go of a horse you love...but will you still feel the same way if you end up in a wheelchair? Sorry to be harsh, but this is the way to look at it.
 
Wow really!?
I think people have given considered sensible advice with concern only for both or yours, and the horse's and everyone you might encounter on while on a road.

what do you propose instead of 1) get some really good professional help, and possibly their opinion on suitability, get them to put the horse in some harder work 2) sell horse, 3) retire horse to field (seems a bit of a shame for a previously active, expensive 10 year old). 4) Contact the dealer you bought him off.

You have both fallen off this horse, on the road in a very short amount of time and one of you has been pretty nastily injured. If that isn't enough to tell you it isn't working I'm not sure what is.
 
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No we are not bullying your partner at all.
We are giving her some very sensible advice based on many years of keeping and riding horses.
We wish to ensure that you both can enjoy your riding and that you do not have any more accidents.
We are not bullies just very concerned about you both and to assist you to make a sensible decision about the future of your horse.
 
Gosh what a strange attitude to take, I have read this whole thread partly because I own IDs , the OP has asked for advice regarding the behaviour of her horse and has consistently been given very sensible advice.Maybe you are unaware of the seriousness of the situation, you could both end up badly injured and so could the horse.
 
I think all the advice given has been sound, and based on MANY people's personal experiences. No one has bullied, you just haven't liked the answers.

He's a big horse, and not what is right for you. I'd be terrified to ride him out, not just for myself, but what might happen to someone else too.
 
I'm really sorry that you think anyone has bullied your other half. One or two posters may have been a little 'blunt' but in all honesty I think everyone is very concerned about the safety of both of you, the horse, and any third parties who may be at risk if the horse is out of control in a public place. I'm sorry that you haven't received the advice you obviouly wanted to hear ... ie, 'get another horse to hack out with and all will be well' - but unfortunately horses aren't as simple as that. You are both clearly heavily invested emotionally in the horse, which is admirable, but it means you are clouding your judgement to the very real danger. Just read back the posts - horse 'spinning and spinning' and your wife landing on her head on concrete, and now you with serious fractures, and would you, in all honesty, if the shoe was on the other foot be encouraging a couple to keep a 17hh, powerful, 'bold' hunter/jumper in his prime as a hack for two novices around the lanes. Forget the advert and look at the horse infront of you - you've both had serious scares/injuries - in all honesty there is no advice that anyone on a forum could responsibly give you that would go along the lines of 'yes, keep trying with this horse and all will be fine'. At the very least get out a professional, have some eyes on the ground to see exactly what you and the horse are like, and take their advice as to whether it could possibly work, and what it would take.
 
If you went up to 100 strangers at a show to ask their opinion and 99 of them gave you the same answer - that the horse should be sold / returned - would you think they were bullying your wife or would you listen? That's effectively what you've done here.

Just because we're telling her what she doesn't want to hear (mainly because we've all been there or know someone who has) does not mean anybody is bullying her. We've offered well meaning advice - some more forcefully than others - but every single poster has had your, your wife's and your horse's best interests at heart.
 
I have read all 11 pages of this thread and I don't think anyone has given anything but advice, definitely don't agree with bullying. It can be hard to listen to advice when it feels everyone is suggesting what seems impossible

I had lots of problems with my first horse, started with her bolting with me on the road and me falling and breaking my shoulder. I got professional help, lessons and spent £££ on xrays, physios and ulcer scoping. I felt like I had to keep her, I was in love with her and I was very scared that she'd go to someone who'd hurt her or wouldn't understand her but after I started to dread riding I knew I had to sell her. I ended up giving her away to a friend and it was the best decision I ever made because they are perfect for each other, and both her and me are so much happier.

It's really hard but there is no shame in admitting you and a horse don't suit each other. My favourite horsey quote is its an expensive way to be miserable, and when I see so many people angry and miserable with their horses it makes me so glad I sold my mare. My second horse is my horse of a lifetime, I love him to bits and i'm not one bit scared to get on him and go anywhere.

Life is too short. Don't take chances with this horse, yes you might be able to get him hacking out happily but you might also spend a lot of time and money on a horse that you can't help and get seriously injured in the process. Let this horse carry on his journey to find someone right for him, and you find yourself a safe happy hack. Be happy.
 
I guess the OP just wanted a 'don't worry he will settle in'/It's just character sort of response.

Also he is only described as ID type irishdraft I have to say he doesn't look very ID to me.
 
Just because we're telling her what she doesn't want to hear (mainly because we've all been there or know someone who has) does not mean anybody is bullying her. We've offered well meaning advice - some more forcefully than others - but every single poster has had your, your wife's and your horse's best interests at heart.
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Totally agree.

FWIW, I have a horse who has hunted for many seasons and is absolutely brilliant to hunt - so much so that he is often borrowed by visiting friends. Because he is so good with a competent rider (and has been ridden by lots of different people) I once agreed to let another friend ride him.

This friend said he had ridden a lot but it turned out - once he was on the horse - that he was a complete novice. He was unbalanced and he was very tense and lacking in confidence. The horse wasn't doing anything wrong but he takes his cue from his rider and I could see the confidence draining out of him with every yard this person rode. I actually asked the friend to get off only a couple of hundred yards into the ride because I could see that the horse was either going to buck or bolt. The same horse will go beautifully for a balanced, confident rider.

Moving your horse on to a more suitable home, where he can go back to doing what he loves and feels safe doing, is likely to be much fairer to him and you and kinder as well in the long run.
 
ArthursMam said:
Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
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The responses on this thread have been overwhelmingly unanimous in the opinion that the two of you are completely overhorsed (rather rare on HHO). No one has bullied, just been honest.

I'm sure the horse is an absolute poppet, and with a more experienced rider possibly a dope on a rope.

Unfortunately neither you or your OH are experienced riders (no shame in that - we've all been there. Most of us have also had times where we've been over horsed).

So keep or sell. But please don't get anyone else badly injured, or worse killed.

I'm assuming you have good public liability insurance.......
 
SatansLittleHelper said:
OP you sound so much like I was with my previous horse...though I bought mine as a mistreated 2 year old and he'd just turned 5 at the time of sale.
I loved that horse so very much BUT I had also just a few months before learned the hardest lesson I will ever learn in my life.
My severely disabled 6 year old daughter went into respiratory arrest and I had to decide if she should go on life support or be allowed to go peacefully there and then. In that moment I knew that loving someone is NEVER EVER enough....all the love in the world would not fetch my little girl back....but I loved her enough to let her go.
A couple of months down the line when my beloved horse bucked me off and broke my ankle and wrist I finally realised that loving him just wasn't enough. At the time part of me couldn't have cared less if the boy killed me having lost my daughter but the sensible part of me wanted him to become the best he could be even if it wasnt with me. I lived him too much to allow him to be ruined by me. I am in touch with his new owner and they are fantastic together...I'm so proud of them both.
I apologise if my post seems a little melodramatic for the situation but I'm just trying to explain, in a clumsy way, that just because you love him doesn't mean he's the right one, and sometimes loving them means giving them a proper chance at life before they lead a life of misery being labelled as dangerous. X
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I found your response SLH very moving. I am glad that you had such presence of mind in a difficult time.

OP's husband, I am sorry, I hate bullying, but I do not think there has been bullying here.

If the horse was from a dealer and is not fit for purpose, then personally I would return for a refund.

For what it's worth I don't think the horse was mis-sold, as he behaved for a week. Then he needed help from his mates, as he was presumably not getting help from his rider. Only then did he start showing dangerous behaviours.

BUT, he was advertised as suitable for a novice, and although he WAS suitable for a week, he proved not so in the longer term. So, IMO, not mis sold, but also not suitable. The subtle difference would mean you would be unable to return to a private seller, but could, legally, to a dealer.

HOWEVER, you bought a horse, and if you would prefer to have a field ornament, then that is entirely your prerogative. In that case I would get a companion. I don't think the horse would mind.

I believe if you threw enough money at it then that could also work. I am talking having a professional ride the horse, and also for you to have lessons. I mean long term, not just one or two.

To press on as you are seems dangerous. I would also flag up that you have posted dangerous behaviour on a public forum, where you could be traced, as you have posted your first name and horse details..... so, if there was an accident you may find you are not insured. Another HHO poster posted about a horse that was showing dangerous traits, and she was told that she was NOT insured third party, through many companies inc BHS.

I was surprised to hear this, see Michen's posts, but she contacted a few companies with the same result.

If this is not resolved then if there was an accident, then you have already publicly admitted the horse is acting in a dangerous manner, and that you are not always in control, so you would be risking your house at the least, and possibly a lot more if a person is injured.

I too have been in this position. In October OH and I bought "Betty" (17hh 5yo) for me to play with and him (inexperienced) to hack. I am a professional, but older now, with a bad back and hip. I thought Betty would be OK, as she was a superstar. In fact, she hurt my hip and back. OH was not experienced enough to have her on his own, and despite the fact that we loved her very much, we were not the "fit" that I hoped for. We lost some money on her, found her a great home, and now we have adjusted our hopes. It hurts. But, it was the best thing to do.

We could, of course, have chosen to keep Betty as a field ornament. That is my choice, as had bought the horse. In the cold light of day though, it would not have been right for me or OH.

I am sorry if you feel bullied. People would like for you to feel safe and have fun. No-one has an axe to grind. If you would like a field ornament then so be it. If you would like to invest in help then I think it would need to be a lot of help, but that is great too.

Good luck OP, hope you come to a decision that feels right for you.


ETA http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...r-public-liability&highlight=michen+insurance
 
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ester said:
I guess the OP just wanted a 'don't worry he will settle in'/It's just character sort of response.

Also he is only described as ID type irishdraft I have to say he doesn't look very ID to me.
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He's no ID.
It's worth remembering that hunters can be useless hacking alone if he hunted a great deal in Ireland he was probably a hireling he would be ridden by lots of people and basically gone along with the herd and sometimes they only time they ride them is when they are hunting or some English person is trying them to buy them .
They have no relationship with the rider and no idea that's that's an option .
They then land in a home and are excepted to go out alone, away from the discipline of dealers / hireling yards it quickly unravels .
People often expect horses that hunt to be bold alone ,all ours are ,but it's not a given that a hunter is a good hack without company ,one of the best field masters horses I ever saw was an appalling hack.
I will be one of the people OP's other half is accusing of bulling her , I stand by every word .
It's very easy to tell people what they want to hear , have some lessons and yes of course you can love your horse into behaving it's not that simple .
 
OP please see that absolutely no one is bullying anybody here. But if you think that a second horse or love of the horse will help you out of this muddle, then I am afraid you are likely to be disappointed. My advice would be to return the horse to the dealer now, whilst there is still half a chance they will take him. The other option is to chuck lots of money at the problem by sending the horse away for professional schooling followed by you having lots of frequent lessons on him. Personally, I am not sure I would want to invest that level of money trying to turn a horse into a happy hacker.
 
ArthursMam said:
Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
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If you are the OP's other half then I think your protectiveness is misplaced. Are you seriously saying that you are happy for OP to receive misguided advice that says everything is going to be ok? Are you happy for her to continue riding this horse?
No one on here has bullied her. HHO may be many things and occasionally arguments can be heated, but I can assure you that when someone comes on here and asks advice about a potentially serious problem, as this is, then you will get the best and considered answers.

I am sure you are still reading the thread, even if you do not reply...such things are like a sore tooth. I'm sure you could seek advice from some nefarious Facebook group and hear the answers you seem to want, but that doesn't make them true.
 
ArthursMam said:
Omg!! I'm op other half, she comes to you for advice and you spend the day kicking her to death ....shame on you! You bunch of bullies !
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This is one of those rare threads within which just about everyone has posted the same or similar responses. That isn't due to bullying or some kind of herd mentality but because everyone here is able to be objective where you and your other half are finding it impossible to be.

Please don't take that shared perspective personally because actually, it would have been irresponsible of posters to not attempt to impress upon you the seriousness of this situation. The points made have been factual, genuine and realistic. I won't repeat them but please do re-think your stance.
 
Goldenstar said:
Are you sure he's physically ok especially his back .
I say this because I have know two horses who did this inappropriate spooking behaviour and both turned out to have very back backs.
It's like they go I am coping with the pain I am coping with the pain , but I can't cope with and that chainsaw and flip .
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I can relate to this. My IDx mare started spooking at cars, after the last episode when she eventually bucked me off on the road and ran off (fortunately along a track to some horses), I asked the vet to check her back. He found muscle damage and treated her with acupuncture. We think that the muscle pain caused tension in her neck, which in turn caused headaches and when a particular noise frequency was added in, it all became too much for her.
 
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