Should you go barefoot or stay shod?

cptrayes said:
I think there has finally been a big breakthrough in the barefoot/shoeing debate with a major horse monthly publishing an article that for the first time does not quote vets and/or farriers saying that barefoot is OK if you horse doesn't do much roadwork.

But the article makes me concerned for a lot of shod-horse owners out there because it does strongly imply that all horse owners could take off their horse's shoes and this simply isn't true. While I personally believe that most horses are capable, eventually, of a full workload with bare feet, there are many horse/owner/livery yard combinations where it won't work.

So while I am VERY against shoes where horses simply don't need them, (and there are thousands of horses in this country being shod when they don't need them), I'm also very against people who need their horse shod being made to feel guilty if they can't "do" the barefoot thing. So here are some pointers as to when you SHOULD have shoes on your horse.

I hope this will start a sensible debate with other barefoot devotees like me adding their advice, and we can show that we are not the mad ourwayistheonlyway nutters that many people want to think we are.

STUDS

If you are convinced you need studs you will need to shoe. There are boots that take studs but they are not legal for BE or BD. Many of us found that studs were unnecessary for jumping even up to Advanced Eventing but you will most likely lose marks on a slick dry grass dressage arena on hard ground without them.

GRASS

There is a very, very high proportion of barefoot horses who will feel stones in the spring summer and early autumn. This is actually very low grade laminitis. In most of those horses it can be controlled by removing them from grazing when grass sugars are high, late morning to early evening. In a smaller, but still significant, proportion a much greater restriction must be placed on sugar in grass and food.

If you simply can't restrict your horse's grazing like that, and you can't or don't want to use boots, or if you simply don't believe that your horse should have his grazing restricted, then you will need to shoe.

WORK

Many horses will cope with peaks and troughs of work barefoot, but some will not. So if you want to hack for four hours on Saturday, for example, your horse might not keep its foot condition well enough if he only pootles in an arena during the dark winter evenings. If so, you'll need to boot or shoe. Stony tracks and roads are no reason not to go barefoot, they cope brilliantly. But not unless they keep their conditioning, and some horses need more regular exposure than others to do that.

MINERALS

Mineral imbalances can be a nightmare. My own grazing, for example, is very high in manganese and iron. Until we knew that, my friends and I had trouble with abscesses and with insulin/laminitic issues. So we needed to investigate and found that copper and zinc are prevented from being taken up by manganese and iron. And seaweed supplementation, high in iron, was a VERY bad idea! Once we got that right by supplementing copper and zinc, abscesses stopped, cracks healed and our horses could tolerate more exposure to grass as well (copper has a role in regulating insulin, which is vital to digesting sugar). There are people on this forum and others who will help with this, but if your horse isn't "right" barefoot, and you can't find out what his imbalance is, or don't want to, you will need to shoe.

WET

Standing in a wet field all winter softens feet and some horses will not be able to cope barefoot unless they have a period each day in the dry. Unfortunately, some will also not grow foot fast enough if they stand still for more than half the hours in a day, and stabling overnight is not the best environment for them. If your horse is one of these, and you can't provide "dry turnout" (mine are in a barn, for example, others have partially covered and/or very well draining track systems) then you will need to shoe.

UNSUPPORTIVE FARRIER/VET/LIVERY

It can be very stressful to go against your farrier and/or vet in taking your horse barefoot. (Unfortunately, although there are more barefoot-aware farriers and vets every day, there are still plenty of farriers and vets telling owners that their horse won't manage when it is not true, as mine and many other barefoot horses demonstrate). Some livery yards can also be extremely hostile if your horse is at all footsore in the early days. If you can't face this, you'll need to shoe.

TRANSITION IS TOO PAINFUL

There are some horses which really struggle when the shoes first come off, and in rare cases this can last months. Those horses shouldn't be exposed to surfaces that they can't manage without protection, which can, to be honest, be a heck of a fuss and bother (booting up just to walk to the field, for example). If your horse is one of those and you can't cotton-wool him the way he would need, you'll have to leave the shoes on.

(Other than this transitioning issue, current foot quality has no bearing WHATSOEVER on whether a horse will work happily barefoot. The removal of the shoes, with a correct diet and work, improves foot quality beyond recognition within four months, and these are some of the very horses that will benefit most.)


I hope this helps those of you who are thinking about barefoot. Hopefully other people will add their advice too.
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I Thought this was great although, you said about barefoot horses feeling stones etc in spring/autumn = low grade laminitis. shoeing a horse will not solve this!!! Its the laminitis you need to treat not the fact the horse is barefoot! Put boots/shoes on the horse will not get rid of the fact that it is suffering from low grade lami!

ALL horses (yes ever flat footed tbs - i knew one with VERY flat crappy feet, that went barefoot with no problems) can go barefoot but unfortunately not all owners can. There is a lot more work involved in barefoot horses (making sure diet, management etc is right) and not everyone is prepared to put the effort into it.
 
wow, its ages since i last posted on this thread - beast is now unshod all round, and has been for nearly a year, on a low sugar diet with MagOx and is doing great.

He will gimp on the odd pointy stone, but apart from that is all good. MagOx was good for getting rid of his cresty neck as well.
 
Thank you for that. How very interesting about the mineral content of grazing. I used to keep all of mine (unshod) on a field and had no END of hassle with abscesses. PF used to get them all the time and hasn't had them at all since living in Argentina. Also, when she had Little Cigar I tried to get her barefoot again, but she just wasn't coping. I'm assuming diet (and the fact that she'd gone through the demands of pregnancy, foaling and lactation) is relevant here. Might give it another crack now; she's been unshod for a year and a half, but not in any work at all.
 
Yes, I no longer can deny, (or hope it isn't :o) that diet is a crucial element along with movement and consistent work for 'working' horses.
 
Wow! the first post of this type that hasn't turned me away from reading the whole thing!

I have an ID/TB filly who has rather flat "draughty" feet. I had her 2 staged on vetting and the only comment was about her slightly flat feet and that she would always have to wear shoes. Obviously it didn't put me off as I bought her, but what would be the chances of her going barefoot?
 
Persephone said:
Wow! the first post of this type that hasn't turned me away from reading the whole thing!

I have an ID/TB filly who has rather flat "draughty" feet. I had her 2 staged on vetting and the only comment was about her slightly flat feet and that she would always have to wear shoes. Obviously it didn't put me off as I bought her, but what would be the chances of her going barefoot?
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http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2011/09/horse-of-week-zan-flat-footed-thin.html

My Arab's hooves were never particularly flat, but they were not 'perfect', even with all my efforts and a really excellent trimmer. He was getting there and then had an abcess and a few other health issues and his hooves never 'sprang' back to life. Even a year later, they never looked like they did.

Then I overhauled his diet. I cut out the bucketful of alfalfa pellets he was on (forage replacer diet) and added specific minerals following a forage analysis.

The change in his feet was amazing, even only a month afterwards!

His white line is tighter and neater that I've seen in 20 years with him and his concavity has returned.

Added to that, he'll be able to metabolise grass better and be more resistant to infection (and his annual mud fever) all for the cheap price of a teaspoon of certain minerals each day. Magic!

Flat feet isn't a conformational thing. It's usually a symptom.
With an appropriate diet and the stimulation of working (within their limits) barefoot the soles will thicken and become concave.

It would be interesting to see pics of the feet (front wall, side wall and sole).
 
I find this whole to shoe or not to shoe really interesting.
I dont know all the ins and outs as to what constitutes barefoot or unshod.
my older, now retired mare who has arthritis had lateral extensions and rolled toe shoes on for years, she elways had an anti clockwise twisting action on her off hind, due to her arthritis. When she retired i decided to take her shoes off and after a period of footiness and chips out of her feet, i now have her nutrition sorted, she has regular trims, still by my farrier,feet are in good nick and 2 years down the line, she no longer has this twisting action in her off hind and seems much straighter moving.
Could it be the fact she is no longer shod that has changed this ??
 
My tb's hooves tend to go flat and also crack. I have found really reducing sugars as much as possible has helped her tremendously. This for us means reducing grass and soaking hay which is a lot of extra work but the results have made me realize just how some grass and hay can affect some horses.

If I ever move again the grazing and land in general will be a much bigger factor in my choice of property. It's reclaimed bog here so very, very acidic and wet. The hay I buy is made from grasses fertilized with high nitrate fertillizers and no soil testing and appropriate/bespoke fertilizing and in the tiny bits of blazing sun we get. All a recipe for high sugar hay it seems. :(
 
Three said:
Excellent post, thank you.

It also leads me off into an interesting side shoot about abcesses which I will investigate further. We have a high incidence on our yard so I'm now wondering if the grazing plays a part.

Unfortunately YO is not horsey/interested in the grazing/concerned about horses so I'll have to do the leg-work myself on this one!! :)

Thanks again for informative, balanced post.
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Please keep us updated on what you find! We have higher incidence of this on our yard than I've ever experienced in the past and our YO isn't horsey/interested either.
 
I honestly dont know much about the topic BUT mine has never been shod, hes worked 5 days out of 7 on various surfaces, tarmac, rubber outdoor, sand indoor-the beach :-) stoney ground etc etc hes out 8 til 6 and in on rubber matting overnight, with 5kg of haylage. he has a small amount of chaff and blue chip-thats it! I dont know what Im doing right, I would actually like to know! :-) farrier says he has really good feet
 
:D AT LAST!!!!!!!!!! a sensible post on a very important issue that has not provoked a THEM AND US scenario. thankyou so much cptrayes for putting both sides so well. i would love to keep my horse without shoes but am at a livery yard with very good grazing and strip grazing is not an option, my horse would stress if stabled on her own so i keep shoes on and she has the type of life she likes. i did try no back shoes and found she wore them down so low she was sore so ended up shoeing again, i also have a brilliant farrier who only rasped round the back feet so i know it wasnt him trimming them. if i was lucky enough to have my own land(some hopes!!!)i would definately want to try without shoes again but unless i win the lottery i think im staying where i am.....thanks again...its so nice when people manage to post without getting into a fight..
 
marydoll said:
I find this whole to shoe or not to shoe really interesting.
I dont know all the ins and outs as to what constitutes barefoot or unshod.
my older, now retired mare who has arthritis had lateral extensions and rolled toe shoes on for years, she elways had an anti clockwise twisting action on her off hind, due to her arthritis. When she retired i decided to take her shoes off and after a period of footiness and chips out of her feet, i now have her nutrition sorted, she has regular trims, still by my farrier,feet are in good nick and 2 years down the line, she no longer has this twisting action in her off hind and seems much straighter moving.
Could it be the fact she is no longer shod that has changed this ??
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From the observations of the barefoot rehabs I'd be inclined to believe that without the shoes, she was allowed to grow the hoof shape she needed in order to best support her limbs.

This might be of interest to you
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2011/02/hooves-and-symmetry.html
 
I was having this talk with my farrier a few nights ago and we couldn't see eye to eye. When I told him that what u feed will show in the horses hoof his reply was " well if your horse has a shiney coat what more can you put into him to improve his hoofs" and went on to say it was the farrier work which is the most important. Iv got horses with just fronts on and cope really well but everytime my farrier comes out he slices his frogs off and pars loads off his sole. He is a good farrier and highly sort after ( won't get a booking for 8 weeks) unless it's lost shoe etc he's so busy but don't seem to/won't grasp the bare foot lark. Iv just taken backs off my 2 tbs and they aren't even foot sore so shall I go for the fronts as well?
 
Oberon thanks for posting that link, its really interesting and very thought provoking. I am really chuffed at how much her gaits improved and if taking the shoes off has been the catalyst for this change, i just wish i'd done it sooner.
 
thatsmygirl said:
I was having this talk with my farrier a few nights ago and we couldn't see eye to eye. When I told him that what u feed will show in the horses hoof his reply was " well if your horse has a shiney coat what more can you put into him to improve his hoofs" and went on to say it was the farrier work which is the most important. Iv got horses with just fronts on and cope really well but everytime my farrier comes out he slices his frogs off and pars loads off his sole. He is a good farrier and highly sort after ( won't get a booking for 8 weeks) unless it's lost shoe etc he's so busy but don't seem to/won't grasp the bare foot lark. Iv just taken backs off my 2 tbs and they aren't even foot sore so shall I go for the fronts as well?
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What barefooters have discovered is that diet is EVERYTHING
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The hooves are a mirror of the health of the horse.
http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/page132a.html

If you did wish to try without shoes, you'll need someone who isn't going to pare the sole or frogs. That's the quickest way to lame a barefooter. You may have an excellent farrier - most people do have an excellent farrier. Alot of those people have lame horses too.

If you follow Rockley Farm's blog with her rehab horses you may have heard of The Celery Trim. It's the discovery that the horses actually come sounder quicker when not trimmed very much at all.

Less is more;).

You may need to find someone who is willing to listen to your views and learn about 'this barefoot lark' if you want to try without shoes......
 
horsemadmum1 said:
A compromise is to leave the back shoes off and only shoe in front.
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Or you could do as my horse decided today - came in with shoes only on the near side feet :rolleyes: Losing 1 shoe overnight is unlucky, but TWO?!

OP - thank you, food for thought although I know current horse would not be an ideal candidate for barefoot :)
 
rhino said:
Or you could do as my horse decided today - came in with shoes only on the near side feet :rolleyes: Losing 1 shoe overnight is unlucky, but TWO?!

OP - thank you, food for thought although I know current horse would not be an ideal candidate for barefoot :)
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Perhaps your horse is trying to tell you something
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RolyPolyPony said:
I Thought this was great although, you said about barefoot horses feeling stones etc in spring/autumn = low grade laminitis. shoeing a horse will not solve this!!! Its the laminitis you need to treat not the fact the horse is barefoot! Put boots/shoes on the horse will not get rid of the fact that it is suffering from low grade lami!

ALL horses can go barefoot but unfortunately not all owners can. There is a lot more work involved in barefoot horses (making sure diet, management etc is right) and not everyone is prepared to put the effort into it.
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I'm sorry Rolypolypony but I disagree with you. I do not agree that all horses can go barefoot, though I do think that most could.

It is correct, of course, that shoeing a horse will not solve low grade laminitis. But it will usually completely remove pain from the horse. There are people who believe that it is more important to have their horse out on grazing than it is to remove every last symptom of a slight grass intolerance. Provided that their owner is aware that they are at risk of acute laminitis and manage the horse properly, then I do not believe that these horses are "suffering".

This is exactly the kind of choice that I meant to highlight. If you are in a livery stables with no control over your grazing and have a horse that grows weak feet if it doesn't get enough movement, or stresses if kept in when its friends are out, then you may simply have no choice than to have your horse shod. It is not a question of "being prepared to put the effort into it". Some people simply have no choice.

No, it's not ideal, it's a compromise. The kind of compromise that ordinary people with ordinary horses in ordinary livery yards have to make every day of their lives.
 
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I know this is an old post resurrected, but thanks anyway for posting such a balanced discussion!

I've kept my pony barefoot since I've had him (almost 3 years now), and we've had some struggles with LGL, and precisely the sort of livery-yard compromises that cptrayes mentions. Although we have a starvation paddock (known as "pony jail"), there is far greater demand for it than can be satisfied (only 2 allowed in there at once), and so we end up on complicated rotation systems (many of us are on grass livery, so no option to stable). I notice a marked change in my pony's entire demeanour when he's been off the rich grass for a day or two. But I'm also aware that shoeing would be masking the problem. He's been on mag-ox for a year, and we had far less problems with the grass this year than last year.

Our yard has about a dozen barefooters on it now (from 2, 3 years ago), and a number of other people worried about laminitis. I'm hoping that we can have a sit-down sometime this winter to come up with a plan for restricted grazing that our YM might accept. A track system would be ideal, but there's certainly no money for anything like installing pea gravel, and it's so wet here that I strongly suspect the track would just turn into a mud slide. Any suggestions gladly entertained! :)
 
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