Shoulder Fore/In Top Tips

SaddlePsych'D

SaddlePsych'D

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I've been learning this in my recent lessons. Mainly I want to learn it as a thing which can be useful for hacking or in the school to help concentration but am aware it's a good skill for schooling.

Obviously my instructor is helping me with this and early attempts have gone reasonably well I think. Mostly we end up just turning in at some stage along the long side but there's definitely been some actual steps too!

My sports psych homework is to do some visualisation stuff so I'm looking for technique stuff to integrate into that. Massive bonus points if it includes imagery. Any top tips or things your instructors have taught which helped it to 'click' for you to get the right feel?

I've got Centred Riding book which I hope will help. Also Invisible Riding but not quite getting all of that.

The best I've got so far is imagining the inside hind crossing (even though I know it's not crossing as such) and found a post on here about imagining you/your horse on skis which point across the school (I quite like that!)
 
I didn't get it at all until I made my instructor give me a number. She said "uh...15 degrees?" and I went okay, no problem. I point me at 15 degrees, send the energy down the track and bingo. Engineer. Math brain. Vectors. Or something.

Head up and shoulders down and level is another one that pops up with SI. If I focus too much on the 15 degrees I get sucked downwards looking at the horse, if I focus on sideways I tip sideways so I also have two hedgehogs on my shoulders and I cannot squash them :)
 
smolmaus said:
I didn't get it at all until I made my instructor give me a number. She said "uh...15 degrees?" and I went okay, no problem. I point me at 15 degrees, send the energy down the track and bingo. Engineer. Math brain. Vectors. Or something.

Head up and shoulders down and level is another one that pops up with SI. If I focus too much on the 15 degrees I get sucked downwards looking at the horse, if I focus on sideways I tip sideways so I also have two hedgehogs on my shoulders and I cannot squash them :)
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Love it!
 
I usually explain it that you're about to step on to a 10m circle but then use your inside leg to "pause" the circle. So you set up the circle then say actually not yet.
 
I struggled with all lateral work until I had lessons with a classical trainer. I don't know if this is "classical" or just the way they taught shoulder in but this helped me massively and I hope I can explain it correctly.

Start by riding a moving turn in the forehand, so front legs are walking a small, dustbin lid size or a bit bigger, circle for 90-180 degrees. This will give you a shoulder in position, then walk forwards keeping the position until you begin to lose it. I found it gave me a great feel and it set the horse up for it better than using a corner or small circle. Once we both got the idea it easily translated into going into it from corner and I had always struggled with any lateral work on my green 5 yr old.
 
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This may make sense, it may no but I ride up the quarter line and turn my body slightly to look at the marker for the long diagonal on the opposite side (which puts your thigh on, I struggle to do this so the looking is to make sure my mind/body connection is working) and then catch the movement with your inside leg to make it clear you don't want a turn.
 
Roxylola said:
I usually explain it that you're about to step on to a 10m circle but then use your inside leg to "pause" the circle. So you set up the circle then say actually not yet.
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I'm similar but I think the 'pause' idea would make me stop completely! When learning I would think of starting a 10m circle (to get the bend and positioning in mind) then pushing the horse along the wall with my inside leg.
 
When I teach shoulder in, I generally see two very common mistakes.

1. Neck in instead of shoulder in. Riders focus on the bit of the horse they can see ie the neck, so they have too much bend in the neck, and the body is still going along on two tracks. To combat this I generally ask riders to ride the shoulder in with a straight neck, obviously I know thats not technically correct, but when I ask for shoulder in with a straight neck it produces just enough neck bend to be correct. Riders need to use their outside rein to really bring the shoulder in.

2. Quarters out instead of shouder in. Riders use too much inside leg and often too far back, and that pushes the quarters out, and once the quarters are out the exercise loses its benefits. Shoulder in is an excellent exercise to start to develop collection, because if done correctly it brings the hind legs under the body of the horse, so think of bringing the outside hind up and under the horses body, not pushing it out and away.
 
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To echo Daffy really.

It’s actually a really nice exercise to ride and not that tricky ONCE you have control of the outside shoulder. When learning it it’s easy to overthink it.

I like to build up to it by gradually riding deeper and deeper corners. Have your inde leg nicely on to help with a smidge of bend, but make sure you use the outside rein to bring the horse round.

The deep into the corner you can ride then the SI just seems to materialise I find.

I don’t panic about not having enough bend to start with, that’s easy enough to refine later
 
Thanks for all the tips :)

I've created an initial imagery thingy - if I've understood correctly this helps speed up getting from the theoretical knowledge of a movement, to getting the feel of a movement. It will be interesting to see if this improves my attempts this week!
 
Oh and @SaddlePsych'D

The outside shoulder is a common phrase. Most of us use the term. But I would float the idea that not all of us that use the term actually consistently can produce it under saddle or consistently feel it.

The reason I say this is I’ve ridden for years. Historically did a reasonable amount of dressage, more at grassroots/lower level BD. I had a number of good wins at that level.
I can look back and admit I didn’t have the outside shoulder. It’s easy to fake/overlook at lower levels.

It wasn’t until I started stepping up the levels, with some mildly embarrassing consequences, that I had a bit of a come to Jesus moment 😆

Who knows, maybe I was just disproportionately rubbish? I kind of suspect it was normal and what most people go through when really learning to ride!

Hope that makes you feel better about it.
 
ihatework said:
Oh and @SaddlePsych'D

The outside shoulder is a common phrase. Most of us use the term. But I would float the idea that not all of us that use the term actually consistently can produce it under saddle or consistently feel it.

The reason I say this is I’ve ridden for years. Historically did a reasonable amount of dressage, more at grassroots/lower level BD. I had a number of good wins at that level.
I can look back and admit I didn’t have the outside shoulder. It’s easy to fake/overlook at lower levels.

It wasn’t until I started stepping up the levels, with some mildly embarrassing consequences, that I had a bit of a come to Jesus moment 😆

Who knows, maybe I was just disproportionately rubbish? I kind of suspect it was normal and what most people go through when really learning to ride!

Hope that makes you feel better about it.
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It does thank you :D

Mainly at this stage I want it as a tool I can use for getting myself and/or horse 'back in the room' if something has been distracting or my instructor has shown me how it can be used out hacking. So even just getting confident with bringing a little bend while staying on a straight line would be a great start!

I'm just at the one RS now but when I'm back at the other one as well, the horse I ride there is a veteran dressage schoolmaster (I want to say up to Medium or possible AM, so well above me!) so imagine he would be a good one to try it with (he makes me feel like a more competent rider than I am 😂).
 
ihatework said:
Oh and @SaddlePsych'D

The outside shoulder is a common phrase. Most of us use the term. But I would float the idea that not all of us that use the term actually consistently can produce it under saddle or consistently feel it.

The reason I say this is I’ve ridden for years. Historically did a reasonable amount of dressage, more at grassroots/lower level BD. I had a number of good wins at that level.
I can look back and admit I didn’t have the outside shoulder. It’s easy to fake/overlook at lower levels.

It wasn’t until I started stepping up the levels, with some mildly embarrassing consequences, that I had a bit of a come to Jesus moment 😆

Who knows, maybe I was just disproportionately rubbish? I kind of suspect it was normal and what most people go through when really learning to ride!

Hope that makes you feel better about it.
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I promise its not just you!! Its very, very normal.
 
daffy44 said:
I think this last sentence is key, too much bend is the root of most problems in shoulder in.
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SI has been my homework recently.
I was finding myself almost chasing the horse with my inside leg, which causes me to put too much weight on my inside seat bone. Once that happens we start to fall apart so when I catch myself chasing I make sure my body and weight are stacked squarely over my horse. My trainer also suggested thinking of connecting my outside hip with my elbow.

I also found I was thinking too much of pulling the neck in, then we get too much bend and I can feel my horse falling through his outside shoulder. So as above, think of keeping the neck straight.

Trainer also said to think of the movement originating from the inside hind, not from the shoulders / neck. She said you know when you are doing it well when the inside hind stepping under causes the shoulders to lift.

We are taking SI really slowly, literally one step at a time, to try to keep it correct and balanced.

We play with it out hacking, and I think he’s actually a bit better doing it hacking than in the school. I think the single track lanes provide a bit of a channel to guide him down.
I tested myself last weekend and tried riding it one handed. It worked better on one rein than the other. The funny thing was we could get into SI but couldn’t get out again without both hands.
 
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