Shoulder In help!

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ForeverDressage

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Looking for some tips with regards to should in please. Just starting to play with should in / shoulder fore with my five year old warmblood, and he is finding this quite challenging. It usually just ends with me getting neck bend 🙈 My older mare found this very very easy, to the point I could almost just think should in and it would happen, so this has left me a bit stumped 🙈 Clearly I need more tools in my tool box!
 
Can he do a genuinely good 10m circle with even bend through the body? Because if he can, it should come "easily" if you do a 10m circle and then ask as you return to the track and start riding down it. If he can't, it's just going to be a struggle.
 
stangs said:
Can he do a genuinely good 10m circle with even bend through the body? Because if he can, it should come "easily" if you do a 10m circle and then ask as you return to the track and start riding down it. If he can't, it's just going to be a struggle.
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^^^
This but to add, is your horse truely understanding the outside rein? You need to have the horse solid into the outside rein before you can readily influence shoulder position
 
I would strongly recommend playing with it from the ground if you can. Lateral work is SO key, and we do it to balance the horse of course, to take weight behind, so it's not about how to do it, it's about the steps we need to take to help the horse take weight behind, and knowing when that is actually happening. I recommend my saddle fit customers to the Slow Walk Work group on Facebook - to be fair the work can be done ridden or in hand, but I think doing it in hand improves our understanding and eye SO much, and it's easier for the horse to shift its balance, improve its posture and movement patterns, without the rider's weight on top. You may also find the writings of Mills Consilient Horsemanship on FB interesting, some of it is too complex and flies over my head, but some of it is fascinating as she explores lateral work and balance from the vaquero perspective rather than regular dressage.

And to add that obviously getting good training is important, it's worth looking at this more French traditiona, very strong on lateral work, such as the Legerete trainers in this (your?) country.
 
If you are going to start in hand, the Oliver Hilberger book is really good.

Schooling Exercises in Hand: Working Towards Suppleness and Confidence - Oliver Hilberger: 9783861279648 - AbeBooks

For anyone training a horse in dressage, classically based in-hand work is a valuable but unfortunately often undervalued part of its education. It is a rarely used tool, but one which variation to the everyday routine and schools both the horse and trainer. This book explains step-by-step and...
www.abebooks.co.uk
 
I had it described to me in a lesson to imagine you're sitting on skis that stick out in front and behind you, along the length of the horse. As you come round the corner, point your skis at C or A and maybe initially open the outside hand a small bit just to begin to teach the horse the idea of what you're asking. I recommend getting a good biomechanics instructor who can explain it best to you and your horse with regard to the stage you're at.
 
It took me ages to get shoulder in with mine. There was a lot of frustration from both of us - I knew I wasn't communicating it in a way that he could 'get' but wasn't sure how to do that, and he got frustrated when I'd ask for bend through the body as well as his neck but wouldn't let him follow the curve as he was moving.

In the end I put him on the inside track and asked for shoulder out so that the fence blocked him. It clicked in minutes.

It's likely not the 'proper' way to do it, but it worked for us!

I also have Sylvia Loch's 'Invisible Riding' which really helped me to understand and work on my body position off the horse. Thoroughly recommend it, probably one of the most useful books that I have!
 
Neck in instead of shoulder in is the most common thing I see when I teach, so you're not alone. Its because the neck is what we see, so its the first thing we try to fix, also, being human we think we can fix things with our hands, so those two things combined creates neck in.

Personally, I teach all my lateral work in hand first, so the horse understands the question and can work it out without the interference of a rider, I just do in hand stuff in a headcollar and I either press with a whip or with the flat of my hand where ultimately I will use my leg.

When you get neck in, make sure you have the horse properly through to your outside rein and try to ride shoulder in with absolutely no neck bend, this usually results in a nice amount of neck bend! But the best thing you can do to help both you and your horse is get some lessons with a good instructor, actual eyes on the ground is always the most effective thing.
 
SI on the wall is often a battle for us, and we're established at Medium. Off the wall, no problemo, can do easily, switch smoothly and confidently from side to side, and do transitions within/between gaits while holding position.

On the wall, he is mentally absolutely glued to the wall. I've had to try some unconventional things to unstick him, and we have to review it often, and it's still difficult on the wall.

Yours is still a youngster, so I will echo the others and recommend starting with groundwork. The pitfall to some of the groundwork is that a lot of it is focused on moving the quarters. So make sure you are training shoulder mobility and response.
 
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