Show Cob? (+ Small Update)

SpringArising said:
Why is the fact that he's a show Cob being used as an excuse here? Being fat isn't a requirement of being a Cob, just like being thin isn't a requirement of being a TB.

I don't care if it's a Shetland sitting in a field, a WB who showjumps every weekend or a Cob - fat is fat.
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I'm completely with you on the general obesity of show cobs, but really you have rudely taken this thread off from the OP on a tangent.

Typical HHO!!!
 
SpringArising said:
Why is the fact that he's a show Cob being used as an excuse here? Being fat isn't a requirement of being a Cob, just like being thin isn't a requirement of being a TB.

I don't care if it's a Shetland sitting in a field, a WB who showjumps every weekend or a Cob - fat is fat.
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Because cobs are in general a different shape to TB's so you need to take that into account which a lot of thin horse fanatics fail to take into acount.
100m sprinters and marathon runners are completely different shapes but not one of the top level competitors will be carrying any excess fat
 
ihatework said:
I'm completely with you on the general obesity of show cobs, but really you have rudely taken this thread off from the OP on a tangent.
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I don't think this is fair. If someone posted up a pic of a horse with neglected feet or one seriously underweight, it would be fair enough to make a polite comment pointing that out. Even if the poster doesn't want to hear it, or it is an old photo and the issue is now sorted, other people will be viewing the thread and might think this is ok if nothing is said. I don't see why obesity should be any different, it is probably more damaging to the horse's long term health. It is clearly an overweight horse, nothing to do with build or having an apple bum or not.

My HW cob was very overweight when I got him and I have often been amazed at all the horsey people all around and professionals who dealt with him who never attempted to intervene. If he had been that thin instead he would have been reported to the RSPCA several times a day!
 
I would just like to point out that fat or thin, the OP horse is 100% not a SHOW cob, yes, he us a cob but def not a show horse.
 
conniegirl said:
I won't bother putting a pic of my hunter up as you will no doubt say he is too fat despite the fact that when he stretches to one side his ribs are visable and they can be felt at any time because he actually has correct muscle in the correct place so looks round!
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Your boy is certainly not fat, he looks absolutely fab.
 
conniegirl said:
Because cobs are in general a different shape to TB's so you need to take that into account which a lot of thin horse fanatics fail to take into acount
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Of course they are. I've owned Cobs, but also have had Welsh Bs, Connies, WBs and IDs, and I know the difference between fat and shape.

The difference between breeds isn't about how much fat they can carry, it's about muscle, bone, shape, etc. etc.

As I said before, fat is fat, and it can't and shouldn't be disguised as muscle or 'show condition', whether it's a show horse or a bog pony.
 
SpringArising said:
Of course they are. I've owned Cobs, but also have had Welsh Bs, Connies, WBs and IDs, and I know the difference between fat and shape.

The difference between breeds isn't about how much fat they can carry, it's about muscle, bone, shape, etc. etc.

As I said before, fat is fat, and it can't and shouldn't be disguised as muscle or 'show condition', whether it's a show horse or a bog pony.
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Yes SHAPE, the SHAPE of a cob is different to that of a TB, so you judge them to different versions of perfect weight.

I've seen foals born with apple bums, you seriously are not telling me that these little mites are born obese?

maybe you should not comment untill you can actualy lay hands on the horse in question and feel for those ribs you are so concerned about.
I've seen the horse in question in the flesh and he is not obese.

If you judge fat from a few photos at odd angles and purely on crest and a round bottom then god help all the grangprix dressage horses and thier large bottoms and huge crests, Valegro must be hugely obese by your standards!
 
Fat:
Photo049-1.jpg


Not fat:
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Jnp's horse's bum is not visible in the pics: why is everyone mentioning apple bums?
 
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OP your horse is lovely, but definitely not a show cob. Are there any other classes you could do? Maybe something in hand so it won't be as hard work for him. I don't want to advise on fitness as so much depends on the horse. Some horses retain their fitness well and wouldn't bat an eyelid at a few rounds of a show ring. I know that my Welshie would need more than a couple of weeks to get that fit though. Showing isn't too exerting so if you find a class you will enjoy then you should be fine. Just listen to your horse.

I'm another who thinks the show cob does look fat - you can see fat pads on the shoulders that would show up much clearer on a bay. But tbh, I would prefer to see a side on conformation shot to judge better.
 
cinnamontoast said:
Jnp's horse's bum is not visible in the pics: why is everyone mentioning apple bums?
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Not idea! I haven't once mentioned the horse's bum.

conniegirl said:
I've seen foals born with apple bums, you seriously are not telling me that these little mites are born obese?
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Read above. When have I ever mentioned the horse's bum?

I was looking at his massive barrel and the huge pads of fat of his shoulders.

I don't understand why people are saying that we need to feel the horse to know he's fat. I don't need to feel up a supermodel to know that she's slim. I can't work out if the people who are saying this horse isn't fat are in denial or just ignorant to an ideal and healthy weight. I get that it's the norm to have a fat horse for showing. I get that it's fashionable. I get that the 'perfect' round horse looks better than one with protruding hips. BUT, that does not make it right.
 
Apercrumbie said:
OP your horse is lovely, but definitely not a show cob. Are there any other classes you could do? Maybe something in hand so it won't be as hard work for him. I don't want to advise on fitness as so much depends on the horse. Some horses retain their fitness well and wouldn't bat an eyelid at a few rounds of a show ring. I know that my Welshie would need more than a couple of weeks to get that fit though. Showing isn't too exerting so if you find a class you will enjoy then you should be fine. Just listen to your horse.

I'm another who thinks the show cob does look fat - you can see fat pads on the shoulders that would show up much clearer on a bay. But tbh, I would prefer to see a side on conformation shot to judge better.
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I will not comment on the show cob, I know nothing about showing which is why I am asking!

The previous cob classes have had 2-3 entries, and it is just w/t/c.
He is unfit, but able to do half an hours w/t/c schooling without getting overly sweaty and puffed (which is why I think for a small showing class with walk, trot and canter he should be fine if he is worked every day over the next 2-3 weeks as I can't remember the show date)

When I say it is local level, it is extremely local and more of a 'fun day' than a proper show - however the showing is still expected if not proper, then smart/an attempt at proper turnout.

He is unregistered and has no breeding, passport has him down as a cob, and I don't think I would be able to enter him in any ridden classes and I don't think they're running M&M or inhand classes. I in no way shape or form expect him to ever do any showing above riding club level (and to even do well at that level!) but was just wondering to enter him for something different to do. He is too big for any pony classes as well, as he's around the 15hh mark, and it is far too soon to do any jumping. He also has a strong dislike of solid fences, I have tried him over the working hunter jumps and he made it very clear what he thought of them. Absolute superstar with coloured poles, but it is definitely too soon to jump him round a course.

Like I said, his breeding is unknown although I suspect he is either part Welsh or Connemara. He's not been clipped this year or I'd have trimmed his feather off already as it makes him look like he's half the size he is, and hogging is not an option but a tidy up is in order as he has taken it upon himself to give himself a haircut.

Re fat comments - I am well aware B has kept his condition (if those were aimed at him!) over winter, and has a bit of a grass belly atm which is being worked on!
I am nowhere near knowledgeable enough to comment on anyone elses horse and what they should and shouldn't look like, so quite simply, am not going to :)
 
Well if it's a local fun show and you want to do something, then go for it. He sounds easily fit enough to do a short class, and it won't matter if the judge thinks he isn't the right type if it's only for fun. Just treat it as a nice day out with a bonus if he does well.
 
SpringArising said:
I get that it's the norm to have a fat horse for showing.
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It's really not! This is such a misconception. There are defo some fat horses in showing and people do use it to 'hide' conformation deficiencies but the majority of top class show horses are bursting with muscle and definition. They may not be racing snakes but they're not fat either.
 
OP, your horse is a lovely handsome chap.

I agree he's not really the show cob type. Are there riding club horse classes for example? That's normally ridden with a little jump. Also fun classes, like horse the judge would most like to take home, best turned out etc.

I don't know much about showing though :)
 
Showing is quite boring OP and your horse doesn't sound like he is going to win from your description of his way of going. If you don't mind being last then go for it, I don't mean this in a nasty way. I entered my mare in a WH comp last week knowing we would probably be last because her schooling is not sufficient to win (yet ;)!). I really enjoyed the day and it was a bit different to our usual SJ capers.

I have to say the show cob pictured doesn't look all that fat to me. He's rounder than I would keep my cob but I don't think he deserves the number of unsolicited comments.

Since I have a cob (who is eventing fit and actually verging on being too thin) I have to say I look at other breeds and think how emaciated and weak they look but that's just my perception because I am used to looking at solidly built horses. Same could be said for non cob people looking at the show cob and seeing immense obesity. Just a thought.

Even though my cob is a racing cob (ribs can be felt easily and probably even seen at times) she still has an immense (muscley) backside as well which both of us are rather proud of. Makes mine look smaller.
 
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Op your lovely horse is not a show cob more a part bred M&M type how big is he.

I agree first thing I thought when I saw the photo of grey cob was that it looked overweight. About 50% of horses are overweight and people often don't realise as we have got used to seeing over weight horses {it is the same with people with about 2/3 of adults being overweight} I know photo's can be deceptive though and the poor lady did not ask for comments on her horse weight. I would also be vary of Top Spec as they are are heavily involved in showing and may be biased when it comes to condition scoring - if they said all their customers horses were overweight they might offend them and loose most of their market!

Blue cross have a condition scoring chart which might be useful for condition scoring.

http://www.bluecross.org.uk/files/body-score-chart.pdf
 
FfionWinnie said:
Showing is quite boring OP and your horse doesn't sound like he is going to win from your description of his way of going. If you don't mind being last then go for it, I don't mean this in a nasty way. I entered my mare in a WH comp last week knowing we would probably be last because her schooling is not sufficient to win (yet ;)!). I really enjoyed the day and it was a bit different to our usual SJ capers.
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As there might only be 3 or 4 competitors even coming last is still a ribbon, lol.

It's just a bit of fun, and getting him out and about and doing something exciting - regarding the classes run, the last one had riding horse, M&M (however ponies must be at least correct height for breed - which he is not haha), cob (inc. trad, lightweight, heavyweight and maxi), ridden hunter, R2R and coloured horse.

the ridden hunter and riding horse can get very competitive as a lot of local showing people treat it as a schooling/training class - and I'm also not keen on hogging him as he is so fidgety with anything around his head and neck.

I would love to do inhand with him, as he is brilliant to lead and works off my body queues for changes of pace and direction, as long as there are is nothing edible around but haven't had the opportunity to try it on a small level yet.

he is around 15/15.1hh and is a 14yo, if that helps anyone out. Passport has him down just as 'horse' with no recorded breeding or breeder.
 
Do best turn it, handsomest gelding if it's a nice low profile local show. It'll do him good to get out and about and it's lovely to go to a show just for the fun of it. :)
 
cinnamontoast said:
Do best turn it, handsomest gelding if it's a nice low profile local show. It'll do him good to get out and about and it's lovely to go to a show just for the fun of it. :)
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unfortunately I don't think they run them - most of the showing classes are pony/kid classes so the adult/horse classes are much more limited!

the show is also being held at my yard, so no worrying about transport etc and any extra stresses other than him getting a bit over excited with lots of new horses around.
 
conniegirl said:
If you judge fat from a few photos at odd angles and purely on crest and a round bottom then god help all the grangprix dressage horses and thier large bottoms and huge crests, Valegro must be hugely obese by your standards!
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Sorry but what an absurd thing to say, that's like asking if you can tell the difference between an overweight woman's 'assets' and a bodybuilders pecs...

Yes I understand that some horses have a cresty neck due to breeding, head carriage, sex and/or the appearance muscle gives, but none of those appear as though they apply to the photos posted. Cinnamontoast imo has posted an excellent example of what we are all talking about.
 
Originally Posted by conniegirl
If you judge fat from a few photos at odd angles and purely on crest and a round bottom then god help all the grangprix dressage horses and thier large bottoms and huge crests, Valegro must be hugely obese by your standards!
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AShetlandBitMeOnce said:
Sorry but what an absurd thing to say, that's like asking if you can tell the difference between an overweight woman's 'assets' and a bodybuilders pecs...

Yes I understand that some horses have a cresty neck due to breeding, head carriage, sex and/or the appearance muscle gives, but none of those appear as though they apply to the photos posted. Cinnamontoast imo has posted an excellent example of what we are all talking about.
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^^
100% agree with this. Sorry, but how on earth can you compare Valegro, a top class, quality warmblood, Grand Prix dressage horse, to the show cob?! He doesn't look anything like a show cob, and he performs GP dressage, not showing.
 
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Go for it and enjoy it, I am sure he will be fit enough for a basic w/t/c :) go and get a ribbon!
Doesn't matter if he isn't quite the right type, it is good for them to get used to it all.
 
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