Show Jumper Friends..... Looking for your view on Pre-Loading in the ring.

[BunnyDog]

I posted this is an American board, but since pre-loading is FAR more common over on your side of the world, I was curious as to your viewpoint.

FWIW, what has been the 'normal" pre-load experience in the USA has been to let the rider in the in gate when the current competitor is past the in gate for the last time, and as such, conceivably in front of the pre loader until they're finished their round.

The video of what I experienced is here:

Cudo and I were definitely both affected by the rider at points and I did have to alter my lines and check here and there.


Jumper friends... I have some questions about pre-loading. (Or is it preloading? Dash, no dash??)


I know it's been done abroad for a long time. My own personal experiences with it before here in the USA were that you would go in when the rider in front of you was done competing over jumps near the in gate... So that you stayed behind them as they finished and didn't really have a reason to go near them until they were pulled up and leaving the ring, done being judged. And fwiw, I wouldn't ever expect to enter the ring in a 2b jump off class until after the person was finishing their last round. (First round if they had a fault already, or JO if clear in 1st)

Now, I was at a fantastic show this weekend and I watched some very different types of pre-loading in Table 2b classes. And then the rider after me in my last class pre-loaded into the ring at the same time as I went in for my 2b round. To clarify, I'm not complaining in my mind, but their understanding of what was "pre-loading" and mine were not in the same universe. I had to check and shift my lines twice because of where they were. Overall I was distracted and so was my horse. I won't go so far to say they caused my fallen rails, but I don't think they helped me avoid them either.

And the only other time I had a pre loader in my ring, that horse helped distract my horse in a moment where he ultimately was eliminated. Again, not solely blaming the pre-loader for the end result, but their presence didn't help the situation.

So, are there any "rules" or guidelines about how to best do this? Or should we?? Cause I saw some rounds that were definitely interfered with. And I think that's likely not supposed to happen and shouldn't be encouraged. Would love some direction if any country has some guidelines on what is supposed to happen in an ideal pre-loading situation.



Many thanks,

Em

 

[Nicnac]

Oh gosh that's nuts. You are right that next rider usually comes in when first rider is past the gate/entrace string so 2nd rider is always behind the first. What you encountered is dangerous and really unfair.

Did the rider after you have the same experience?

British Showjumping rule 233 states: Other than stated in 233.2 (above) there should at no point be more than 2 horses in the competition arena at any one time, where multiple riders are to be allowed into the arena, consideration should be given to the most appropriate point to allow the next rider in during a competitive round. The purpose of allowing multiple riders into the arena should be solely to aid the running of the day and not for pre-round training or familiarisation. The next rider to enter the competition arena should only do so when the competitive rider is coming towards the end of their round and then only if it is safe and appropriate to do so.

 

[shortstuff99]

I hated this so much that I would have my dad stand at the gate and not let anyone else come in until I had finished ?.

 

[BunnyDog]

Oh gosh that's nuts. You are right that next rider usually comes in when first rider is past the gate/entrace string so 2nd rider is always behind the first. What you encountered is dangerous and really unfair.

Did the rider after you have the same experience?

British Showjumping rule 233 states: Other than stated in 233.2 (above) there should at no point be more than 2 horses in the competition arena at any one time, where multiple riders are to be allowed into the arena, consideration should be given to the most appropriate point to allow the next rider in during a competitive round. The purpose of allowing multiple riders into the arena should be solely to aid the running of the day and not for pre-round training or familiarisation. The next rider to enter the competition arena should only do so when the competitive rider is coming towards the end of their round and then only if it is safe and appropriate to do so.

OMG you are my hero!!!! We do not have any rules on this here and I was trying to see if any other countries did have rules.

YAY

@shortstuff99 my dad is ok around horses, but wouldn't pose much of a threat or aid in stopping others from coming in during my round.

Em

 

[HashRouge]

Oh gosh that's nuts. You are right that next rider usually comes in when first rider is past the gate/entrace string so 2nd rider is always behind the first. What you encountered is dangerous and really unfair.

Did the rider after you have the same experience?

British Showjumping rule 233 states: Other than stated in 233.2 (above) there should at no point be more than 2 horses in the competition arena at any one time, where multiple riders are to be allowed into the arena, consideration should be given to the most appropriate point to allow the next rider in during a competitive round. The purpose of allowing multiple riders into the arena should be solely to aid the running of the day and not for pre-round training or familiarisation. The next rider to enter the competition arena should only do so when the competitive rider is coming towards the end of their round and then only if it is safe and appropriate to do so.

This very much matches what I've seen (I used to be a groom for a pro SJ rider). I've only ever seen a second rider enter the ring towards the end of the round and well out of the way of the first horse and rider. I've never seen anything like what happened in your video BD.

 

[BunnyDog]

Ok so this one is not as obvious and egregious, but still didn't go well.

This could be why I don't love having pre loaded horses anywhere near us.

I mean.... how much closer to my last fence, on an already awful round (Don't worry, this was from the disaster show in 2021..much improved now), did you need to be? If she'd waited another 20 seconds I would have been out of the way entirely.

Em

 

[Northern Hare]

Hi BD,

Blimey, did the other rider think they were entering a pairs jumping class or something? What were the collecting ring stewards thinking of, letting them in at the same time as you?

Ps. I've not heard the term "pre-loading" before in the context of show jumping - but I have heard it used for when teenagers have a few drinks at home with their friends before heading out to the city centre Nightlife! ??

 

[BunnyDog]

Did the rider after you have the same experience?

We think not. The video I have was shot by my friend who was helping me. I have seen the pro photographer's album of pics from his round and didn't notice a preloader, but there were only a few images.

It was really stupid as there were only 7 of us in the class.

Em

 

[BunnyDog]

Hi BD,

Blimey, did the other rider think they were entering a pairs jumping class or something? What were the correcting ring stewards thinking of, letting them in at the same time as you?

Ps. I've not heard the term "pre-loading" before in the context of show jumping - but I have heard it used for when teenagers have a few drinks at home with their friends before heading out to the city centre Nightlife! ??

Steward was at the other ring watching hunters.

Gate people were lovely but busy. Rider was riding one of the gazillion horses there with the Bluman family. And all I know is that the rider of the horse doesn't have a full USEF membership and the horse is 6.


As to the teenage drinking... I have heard it called that now that you mention but I didn't think of it before.

Em

 

[Curly_Feather]

Here in South Africa the next rider is always in the ring with current rider when showjumping. But you can't just trot around through the center of the ring, that's insanity! You walk around the very outside, ALWAYS with your eyes on the current rider.

 

[j1ffy]

You can clearly see them in Cudo's (and your) eyeline at the wrong moments. The rider looked like they didn't know what they were supposed to be doing, it looked pretty odd.

I'm not a SJer but from what I've seen here in the UK, it's as per the BS rule posted above. However I've also watched the SJ at the Sunshine Tour in Spain a few times and they do pre-load a lot earlier in a round there, unless it's one of the big main arena classes, presumably as they tend to have very large classes and multiple classes to get through each day. I've not seen it cause an issue and the rider waiting will usually stand quietly in a spot they know to be out of the way, and move as required to be well away from the lines of the combination jumping.

On a lighter note, I was watching one of the outer arenas at the Sunshine Tour a few years ago and Geoff Billington came in on a young horse. The next rider was pre-loaded so walking around while GB jumped. GB jumped the first three, then yelled "which next?" and the pre-loaded rider guided him around the course ?. GB went clear! It was such a classic Geoff Billington performance, having seen a couple of his demos and his sense of humour it did make me laugh.

 

[MissTyc]

When I am on gate duty, we always agree exactly at which point the next competitor will be let and repeat the instruction "turned right/left please" every single time and don't let them in until that part of the arena is clear. Most people stick to the outside or circle in a small section that isn't needed any more.

In your first video, the horse B was being shown jumps, I'd say. Your second video, ARGH!!! My mare would have pinned her ears and charged that interloper. On which note, a friend of mine's horse got kicked landing from a jump during her SJ round because the next horse spooked at something, shied into her line and then kicked him!. Wtf even (it was unaffiliated, but still).

Never heard the term preloading ... We just call it "letting the next competitor in before the previous one has finished." Your term is better.

 

[MissTyc]

You can clearly see them in Cudo's (and your) eyeline at the wrong moments. The rider looked like they didn't know what they were supposed to be doing, it looked pretty odd.

I'm not a SJer but from what I've seen here in the UK, it's as per the BS rule posted above. However I've also watched the SJ at the Sunshine Tour in Spain a few times and they do pre-load a lot earlier in a round there, unless it's one of the big main arena classes, presumably as they tend to have very large classes and multiple classes to get through each day. I've not seen it cause an issue and the rider waiting will usually stand quietly in a spot they know to be out of the way, and move as required to be well away from the lines of the combination jumping.

On a lighter note, I was watching one of the outer arenas at the Sunshine Tour a few years ago and Geoff Billington came in on a young horse. The next rider was pre-loaded so walking around while GB jumped. GB jumped the first three, then yelled "which next?" and the pre-loaded rider guided him around the course ?. GB went clear! It was such a classic Geoff Billington performance, having seen a couple of his demos and his sense of humour it did make me laugh.

Not even "outside assistance" if it comes from within the ring *smart!*

I guess the more professional the competition/competitors, the less likely people are going to get in each other's way. Which make that first video of Cudos so odd, because it looks like the level of competition where people know what they're doing ...

 

[ester]

I was thinking I’ve seen it more on vids in Europe than I have here.

 

[Birker2020]

In my experience of BS(JA) 2000 - 2005 the collecting ring stewards would do this on busy days when there were lots of qualifiers and they wanted to get people through quickly. Having large numbers of competitors (70 or 80 horses) in some of the bigger classes was not unusual, so unless this was done the class would drag on for hours and hours and even when this was done some classes did. This is why they stopped doing Table A7 and started doing two phase classes.

My partner worked for 22 years at a large equestrian show centre in the Midlands and I've seen his chalk board full of numbers so many times.

I can remember entering a Blue Chip Final and there were 120 in the BN, it took over 4 hours to run through. This was way back in 2000. We were one of the quicker ones with 3 down, nerves got the better of me!

 

[ycbm]

When eventing I have often both pre-loaded and been pre-loaded by someone else. I have never, ever, experienced a horse and rider inside the ring in my sight line as I approach a fence, I've never done it to anyone else and I do believe in the UK a competitor who did what that one did to you would likely have been disqualified for impeding your round or for showing her horse the fences.
.

 

[Caol Ila]

Not switched onto the showjumping scene at all, but I can't believe the stewards let that other rider wander around the ring like that. It was obvious that she was distracting both you and your horse.

And in the other video, where Cudo stopped, it looked like he thought the grey horse was in his way or too damn close at the first refusal, and then lost confidence in the whole round.

 

[IrishMilo]

Keysoe near me have been doing this more and more I've noticed in the big classes. They're letting the next competitor in half way through the round.

 

[ihatework]

It’s new terminology to me!
Agree with others, in UK it’s pretty consistently done but only towards the end of the round when the competing horse has passed a specific point and won’t be impeded by the entry of next competitor.

In the videos the second one is shocking. The first I’m a bit meh, the positioning of the pre-loader shouldn’t have impacted the jumping round for a confident focussed horse. BUT a competition arena should be as level a playing field as possible, so irrespective, they shouldn’t have been in there effectively trot schooling around the fences. Wouldn’t happen in UK. Can’t say for EU

 

[Birker2020]

It’s new terminology to me!
Agree with others, in UK it’s pretty consistently done but only towards the end of the round when the competing horse has passed a specific point and won’t be impeded by the entry of next competitor.

In the videos the second one is shocking. The first I’m a bit meh, the positioning of the pre-loader shouldn’t have impacted the jumping round for a confident focussed horse. BUT a competition arena should be as level a playing field as possible, so irrespective, they shouldn’t have been in there effectively trot schooling around the fences. Wouldn’t happen in UK. Can’t say for EU

Well exactly. Because it won't be a level playing field. The last horse has no one to follow him/her. So no pressure as such.

 

[BunnyDog]

You can clearly see them in Cudo's (and your) eyeline at the wrong moments. The rider looked like they didn't know what they were supposed to be doing, it looked pretty odd.

I'm not a SJer but from what I've seen here in the UK, it's as per the BS rule posted above. However I've also watched the SJ at the Sunshine Tour in Spain a few times and they do pre-load a lot earlier in a round there, unless it's one of the big main arena classes, presumably as they tend to have very large classes and multiple classes to get through each day. I've not seen it cause an issue and the rider waiting will usually stand quietly in a spot they know to be out of the way, and move as required to be well away from the lines of the combination jumping.

On a lighter note, I was watching one of the outer arenas at the Sunshine Tour a few years ago and Geoff Billington came in on a young horse. The next rider was pre-loaded so walking around while GB jumped. GB jumped the first three, then yelled "which next?" and the pre-loaded rider guided him around the course ?. GB went clear! It was such a classic Geoff Billington performance, having seen a couple of his demos and his sense of humour it did make me laugh.

Ok, now that's HYSTERICAL. . Thank you for that story!!!

I guess the more professional the competition/competitors, the less likely people are going to get in each other's way. Which make that first video of Cudos so odd, because it looks like the level of competition where people know what they're doing ...

Ok so the only thing I was able to find out was that the rider only has a "Fan" membership to our national org. (Which is what you need to watch the live videos from the biggest shows) That said, he was riding a horse in the Bluman's yard. (Brothers and father of Daniel Bluman) So HUGE outfit very experienced, but the rider wasn't. The horse is a 6 yr old and if you watch his first moments going by it, did take a hard look at the liverpool under #7. But like, another trainer with riders in this class warmed up with a blue tarp under the warm up jump. I even made my poor friend helping me hike back up to our rig and grab my turquoise yoga mat and made Cudo jump that in warm up to get him over the concept also. Being prepared isn't hard.

Em

 

[ycbm]

I guess the more professional the competition/competitors, the less likely people are going to get in each other's way. Which make that first video of Cudos so odd, because it looks like the level of competition where people know what they're doing ...

The cynic in me says the more professional they are the more they know exactly how much they can get away with doing to put the other competitor off without being disqualified themselves.
.

 

[BunnyDog]

The cynic in me says the more professional they are the more they know exactly how much they can get away with doing to put the other competitor off without being disqualified themselves.
.

So funny thing, Cudo really did warm up brilliantly. My husband, not present at show, he was home, and my friend who was at the show, have both wondered aloud if they were actually trying to throw us off to promote their 2 riders in the standings. I would say it didn't work well though, as this rider was only 1 place above me and the other was behind me. Not sure if she was the one who fell off or no.

Em

 

[IrishMilo]

I don't think it looked that way to me (that she was trying to throw you off). I mean, it just looked like she was very slowly walking as close to the fence line as she could. And I assume she was told to be in the ring at that moment.

 

[BunnyDog]

I don't think it looked that way to me (that she was trying to throw you off). I mean, it just looked like she was very slowly walking as close to the fence line as she could. And I assume she was told to be in the ring at that moment.

It was a male rider, but even as that's a far reaching thought (Sabotage) for sure it did affect me and trotting right towards us (going in opposite direction) as we went down a line was worse. And almost being at the oxer at 9 at the same time was no picnic either.

Em

 

[teapot]

This is a video of the Sunshine Tour in Spain earlier this year with Jonelle Price riding one of her best horses. One horse eventually leaves, and another suddenly comes into shot

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CZ1zH5qIXNL/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=


No idea what's correct though! I've only ever seen it done occasionally in the UK, usually to get a class moving.

 

[j1ffy]

This is a video of the Sunshine Tour in Spain earlier this year with Jonelle Price riding one of her best horses. One horse eventually leaves, and another suddenly comes into shot

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CZ1zH5qIXNL/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=


No idea what's correct though! I've only ever seen it done occasionally in the UK, usually to get a class moving.

This is what I saw as being typical at the Sunshine Tour. There’s an outdoor warm up behind the camera (if I recall correctly, there are sooo many arenas there now!) so the first non-jumping horse came from there, knew which way Jonelle would be going so got well out of her jumping line and stood behind an oxer out of her way.

Mind you, if you’re at a six week tour and living in each other’s pockets you probably don’t want to p*as off the other riders by disturbing their line ?

 

[LEC]

It’s very common here eventing and I quite like it. Gives you a chance to take a breath before you start. You are sent left or right by steward and told to stay out of the way. You are usually sent the opposite way to the final line so well out of the way. As soon as person has jumped last fence you can pick up canter. I can be sent in up to 4 fences from finish.

In Netherlands they will run up to 3 in the ring but that’s often young horses to give them a bit of confidence and decent size rings. You don’t see that in the indoors, mainly two then.

 

[Accidental Eventer]

We do it here, most comps you go when they are either jumping off/after they have passed the entry for the last time, or you go as they start and stay out the way (arena dependant). We do it to get through riders faster. I have had issues with a rider being in my eyeline only once, and it was someone who should have known better and is renowned for it. Most people stay behind you and keep out the way.

 

[LegOn]

Its very common in Ireland but I've never heard the term 'preloading' so thats new!

Its terrifying if ask me, at Cavan or some of the bigger shows, there can be 3 horses in the ring! Its bonkers! I've asked at the gate not to allow other horses in on my round as my horse will deck me (not quite true but still!) and its been fine. And if I'm asked to go in while another horse is jumping, I decline - its never been an issue. A friend of mine does have a horse that will have a complete meltdown with other horses in the ring and loses his focus, so she asks for no other horses in the ring and again, no issues but I dont really see how it speeds things us. The 'preloaded' horse usually still has a trot & canter before the bell & has 45 seconds to approach the first fence, doesnt seem to be saving any time if you ask me!