Show Jumping - Behind closed doors?

JenJ said:
You got this response not because of what you mentioned you were seeing, but because you are not willing to do anything about it. On a forum of horse lovers, what do you expect? A pat on the back?
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I think you just enjoy being self righteous, as I said I haven't been here long and these events have escalated recently. the world of horses isn't all pink and fluffy, I really wish it was - there are many others on this yard who also love horses but are torn, life isn't that straight forward. In the past I've reported an instance where gun dogs were being abused, kept in their kennels in searing heat day and night, while their owners were out from 6 in the morning till 7 at night - a dachund was kept in a tiny pet carrier in the house for all these hours and NOTHING was done about it, as long as animals are fed and not obviously injurred they turn a blind eye.

I never said I was not 'willing' to do anything about it, it's a case that I haven't yet. the horse who wasn't being fed? Well I've slipped him some hay a few times when the yard has been quiet - I struggle with this and will come to my own conclusion about how to handle it

It's easy to say 'I'd do this' and 'i'd do that' when it's not your dilema
 
sugaroo said:
Thanks katkins for at least understanding my dilema and not being self righteous, life is often not black and white - the people running this yard are very young, they work extremely hard and are the victims of professional show jumpers who have shown them that this is the 'way' to success - If I was to report it and the RSPCA turned up they would see a yard of what look like well kept horses, they are fed and excercised, they don't have bruises and can't complain. You know how useless the RSPCA can be even in cases where abuse is obvious, here, unless you whitnessed it first hand you wouldn't think there was anything wrong.

The post was asking for peoples experience of show jumping yards and this is mine - I'm not looking for a witch hunt but if inapropriate behaviour continues to be a theme then I will do something about it - there have also been periods when everything appears ok, at least while I'm there it's mainly when they get a new young horse of their own or are reschooling/breaking a horse that these things happen
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Then if you think nothing will happen if the RSPCA visit I'd be taking video/pictures on my phone as evidence. Just because it isn't happening everyday is no excuse.
 
My take on it for what's it worth, is it's very hard/impossible to get anything done about cruelty on yards without evidence. It would be a waste of time to report something that has happened if the horse concerned looks ok now.....much easier if you have a skinny horse to show.
 
bonny said:
My take on it for what's it worth, is it's very hard/impossible to get anything done about cruelty on yards without evidence. It would be a waste of time to report something that has happened if the horse concerned looks ok now.....much easier if you have a skinny horse to show.
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Most things worth achieving are hard.

However this one sounds pretty straight forward as there are a lot of witnesses for statements and who I'm sure have camera's that can video and take pictures. Quite easy to keep a timeline of the abuse.

Failing that I'd be telling the owners of the horses just how they are treated.
 
BBH said:
Most things worth achieving are hard.

However this one sounds pretty straight forward as there are a lot of witnesses for statements and who I'm sure have camera's that can video and take pictures. Quite easy to keep a timeline of the abuse.

Failing that I'd be telling the owners of the horses just how they are treated.
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I agree with what you are saying but I think a plan is called for, not just phoning the rspca and expecting them to do something because you say that it happened. Not easy to do when you are one person on a yard, sounds like talking to the other people there would be the way forward.....
 
Sugaroo, you are wrong. Not all top SJ yards are run this way.

No matter how good the facilities, if this is as bad as you say it is then field board with no facilities is a better option as a stop gap.

If all this is going on you need to video some of it.

I'm in no way excusing the behavoir but coming here to rant isn't doing anything about it. Especially when you say all top yards are like this. Yes there are bad everywhere. I had my mare in SJ training. It ended nastily and abruptly. I'm a neat stable freak. The first time I saw my mare in a bed not to my liking i brought out shavings. Never happened again. When she wasn't getting adequate hay I brought some. Again, things changed. I went nearly daily to see her. I did odd jobs and opened my mouth when need be.

Move and report. Nothing may happen but you will have done something other than rant on a forum.

Terri
 
I understand it can be hard to find a decent yard, but this behaviour needs to be reported, sooner rather then later.

Keep a log book of every indident you see, take photos of them in dirty stables, take videos (if you can) of them beating the Horse. You don't have to say it was you, report to WHW and BHS too. They will obviously know a livery has reported them, but they won't know which one, I highly doubt they would kick all their liveries off.
 
I could not stand by and do nothing no matter how difficult it is to find a good yard.

A horse being starved into submission or left on a horse walker all night - which is what the YO wanted is IMO absolute cruelty.

Even my good doers and a laminitic are not left for hours without 'fibre'. Are the owners of these horses aware they could face vet bills for colic or ulcers? because of the appalling neglect?
 
Oh wow another perpetual thread!

Or is that perennial? Can't believe its still going after FOUR years!

:D
 
Lol!! It's hilarious... My comment from last year was actually quoted and someone said something like 'I hope it was a joke'... Amusing!!

:):):):):)
 
I personaly know and have trained with Joe Whitaker and Billy Towmey. Both thier training methods are based on working with the horse and its scope and technique. I have never seen unkindness to a horse whilst riding or handling or even in speech whlist i have known them. I belive them both to be genuine kind blokes. As for Joe hecan only have grown up this way if his father trained hiom this way, therfore although I do not know Ellen I can assume that she has also revieved the same knowledge and training as her brother.
 
Surely draw reins just help the horse with its technique over the fence, rather than hold it back from being able to stretch, like a standing martingale? I'm not 100% as I've never used them, I just know they help with an outline, muscle building etc. I wouldn't say the weighted boots, draw reins or pinch boots are that cruel as such, if used correctly. Or am I just being naive and don't know enough about them?

As I say, never used them myself :)
 
Amy567 said:
Surely draw reins just help the horse with its technique over the fence, rather than hold it back from being able to stretch, like a standing martingale? I'm not 100% as I've never used them, I just know they help with an outline, muscle building etc. I wouldn't say the weighted boots, draw reins or pinch boots are that cruel as such, if used correctly. Or am I just being naive and don't know enough about them?

As I say, never used them myself :)
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I thought draw reins were so you can teach your horse to draw with its hooves?
 
Haven't bothered reading all the thread, but I think most showjumpers have decent horses that enjoy jumping.I'm all to aware that some horses are pushed though, but they usually don't stay at the top. They end up as sympathy buys from a dealer because of the scar on their front leg from rapping with some spikes on the pole that makes poor pony tank in fear after hitting a pole with their fronts and dumping you by tanking and jumping out the school and then broncing because they spooked before a fence so accidentally ran out but still jumped the wing... Or at least that's what I did. The dealer though had never done anything to the horse though I'd like to stress. It was whatever heavy handed idiot that had tried to get the horse jumping before. lets be blunt though. Everyone Has heard of what goes on. But it's whether you choose to believe it or not, and with horses being tested for hypersensitivity (was it the Canadian rider that was disqualified for this at the Olympics?), and with a horses reaction being fairly tell tale of how it's trained, I like to think most pro's won't want to risk their reputation. It takes years to build it, but minutes to destroy it IMO.
 
Budley has demonstrated very kindly here, why one must always read a thread all the way through before posting...

Lets all give Budley a round of applause for that demonstration :D
 
LaurenBay said:
I understand it can be hard to find a decent yard, but this behaviour needs to be reported, sooner rather then later.

Keep a log book of every indident you see, take photos of them in dirty stables, take videos (if you can) of them beating the Horse. You don't have to say it was you, report to WHW and BHS too. They will obviously know a livery has reported them, but they won't know which one, I highly doubt they would kick all their liveries off.
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Hi have been keeping a close eye as best I can, I ask if horses have been fed (those that are in their bad books and likely to be mistreated) - This morning I fed the horse whoes being deprived of food so that they can catch him - I know I'll get it in the neck when they see i've fed it. I have started talking to others and there is a body of concern, as I said, one person confronted them, then a yard meeting was called - after everyone moaning and complaining only me and one other turned up, the others said they had nothing to discuss, the meeting was called off and the person who complained kicked of the yard - she is in her 60's and had been on the yard for 15 years!

My own horse has come to me with a few issues, he's young and very nervous, he will not have the guy who runs the yard within 15 feet of him even though he's pretty good with everyone else - he had told me that I needed to break his spirit, I chose the opposite and am doing parelli, he is now doing really well and I'm hoping to show them that there are 'other ways'. I'd rather attempt to re-educate them than destroy their business, they are nice kids in every other way - although I don't intend to stand by and let any more abuse happen - the good news is (sort of) that they've decided not to take on any more breakers or retrainers, they've had zero success with them so far and they're finding them a real hastle (horse stuck in field etc).

I got to this forum because I was looking up abuse on show jumping yards to see how wide spread it really is, I think it goes on a hell of a lot more than we'd like to admit, even when i was a teenager doing affiliated jumping, I saw ponies who'd done badly taken behind a lorry and beaten and I knew of people who used pig prongs as part of their training. Horses don't howl and yelp and rarely retaliate, that is why abuse is quite wide spread - perhaps we should all open our eyes to it and make it utterly unacceptable!
 
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