ycbm
Overwhelmed
Usually the feet spread once the shoes are off, that's an odd one
I have found it more common for the feet to get smaller.
It depends, of course, on whether the foot is contracted or spread to start with.
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Show me your hoof transformations!
- Thread starter PaulnasherryRocky
- Start date
I have found it more common for the feet to get smaller.
It depends, of course, on whether the foot is contracted or spread to start with.
.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Perhaps it depends on the individual - we like that word here. The heels are still weak on the second photo.
You MUST report that trimmer I am sure the EPA would like to know. They train for 2 years plus another year as an apprentice so I'd be worried if I had trained them.
Equally people should report bad farriery.
People don't though so it doesn't raise any awareness.
tristar
Well-Known Member
BBP
Well-Known Member
Working on developing the heel to get the heel bulbs off the floor and bring some support under them. Horse has always been barefoot. This is a hind, suffering from PSD (querying DSLD). Apologies, it’s hard to get all the photos from exactly the same height and angle.
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Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Tbh, I’m so fed up that I cba. I’m exiting horses when this lot have gone. Plus, the trimmer is a nice person, just not very good at trimming tb type feet. I’ve simply binned the whole barefoot trimmer thing as a bad idea and moved on.
Now, the farrier I would gladly have reported. Those feet were shocking. The problem was, the horse was not in my care at the time she was shod, I did not employ the farrier, and the loan home clammed up. The farrier who took her on for me did a good job with her and agreed that the farriery was a shocker (as did the vet). But, my farrier was an older guy, not too well, and he told me he did not want the hassle of testifying against the other farrier. The way it works, a complaint is overseen by a local regional farrier rep. The regional rep was that same crap farrier, and my guy didn’t want to stir up a hornets’ nest.
So, lacking firm evidence as to exact dates/what had happened when she was out on loan, I had to leave it. So an arrogant big cheese training farrier with multiple apprentices is still out there and presumably allowing the same thing to happen.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
Hmm mm. I wonder if it's the same arrogant big cheese training farrier that we got for a short time up in Cumbria who would have a different apprentice do each fecking foot! And let one apprentice chop the big guy's frog until it bled then told me I best put hydrogen peroxide on it as it "must be thrushy".... he'd actually chopped into a keratoma in the frog... I think he travelled up from down your way (Cheshire? )
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Not called Mark was he? I had a big fallout with him, sent to him by my farrier as an expert to mend a crack and made it worse and just shrugged his shoulders when his apprentice pricked my horse. Arrogance was off the scale!
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PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
No neither Mark nor Tiddlypom's.... so that's at least three arrogant big cheese farriers loose in the wild.
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
Not yet a transformation but as they are now. They've changed a lot over the last year and having some concavity to them is something he's never had historically. The feet were so flat I caved and got shoes at one point. I really want to sort the sulcus out ASAP - I don't think the pic does justice of how deep it is but it's making him sore. I also want to lift the bulbs up.
Reacher
Dishonourable Member
No worries at all ! (sorry for the late reply). I'm pleased and impressed by the job your new farrier did.
It does baffle me how a so called pro can do such a bad job. I do think we owners need to learn as much as we can so we spot issues before they get too bad. Good for you for doing so.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
You're not alone... I didn't report the farrier who lamed my horse! Another "big cheese"... sorry about your EPA TP... my EPA literally saved his life and now 10 years on poss more I have 3 bf driving and riding over anything.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
I realise that I did not post any ‘after’ pics following on from the pic of the awful shoeing by the big cheese farrier.
I used my own small cheese, non training farrier.
She went from this by the big cheese:-
To this after small cheese farrier pulled those awful shoes. He didn’t dare do more than this to correct the foot balance in one go, and even so she was crippled after they came off
. She needed box rest for two weeks.
Vet said she would recover much more quickly back in shoes, so 4 months later the small cheese farrier had rescued her foot balance back to this:-
Then I decided that despite the excellent work my farrier had done, I would go down the barefoot trimmer route. What was I thinking of
? That unfortunately did not work out on my n=1 sample of barefoot trimmers.
I used my own small cheese, non training farrier.
She went from this by the big cheese:-
To this after small cheese farrier pulled those awful shoes. He didn’t dare do more than this to correct the foot balance in one go, and even so she was crippled after they came off
. She needed box rest for two weeks.Vet said she would recover much more quickly back in shoes, so 4 months later the small cheese farrier had rescued her foot balance back to this:-
Then I decided that despite the excellent work my farrier had done, I would go down the barefoot trimmer route. What was I thinking of
? That unfortunately did not work out on my n=1 sample of barefoot trimmers.
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
As of today have made the switch from 'normal' farrier to barefoot trimmer. Horse always had 'flat' 'thin' soles under old farrier due to the way he rasped them, and he dumped me when I suggested maybe next time could he not rasp them flush to the floor... Foot looks fabulous already, she rolled the toe, took off minimal sole, cleaned up the frog a tad and said he has fab feet all round. The frog has already opened up just after a week of packing with Sudocreme. It's still contracted a bit on his RF but we're working on it.
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
CS and heel is looking a million times better. What a difference a few weeks can make.
saddlesore
Well-Known Member
I’ve had my boy since he was 18 months and he’s never worn shoes. I’ve never used a BF trimmer but I did have to change farrier due to my boy’s feet being ruined. Whoever you use and whether you shoe or not please make sure it’s the right person you trust with your horses feet ?
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
I'm getting more and more shocked by what people are saying about some farriers doing a terrible job and no way of effectively complaining. This is a welfare issue - these poor horses are suffering and being lamed/ developing long term issues. Many owners are simply not knowledgeable enough to notice till it's too late. Is there not something we could do to put pressure on the people in charge of farriers to change their complaints process if the current one results in no complaints being made? Surely this can't be allowed to continue? Letters to the farriers council ? Get the BHS involved?
Reacher
Dishonourable Member
I’ve taken screenshots of some before and after pics of a navicular horse from the dr Robert Bowker videos mentioned on another thread .
There is a link to his videos here
http://www.thelaminitissite.org/feet-faq--articles/robert-bowker-hoof-anatomy-videos
There is a marked up ‘before’ sole photo (bottom photo) with black lines showing where the toe and heels should be. He trims them weekly, taking a little off each time to not make the horse sore. The after photo is about 7 months later. He says you need to bring the break over to within the white line (which would give most vets/farriers a heart attack) - but afterwards the horse was hunting barefoot.
Where the white circle is shows where the frog wants to grow larger since it supports the navicular bone - trimmers/farriers try and trim it off.
There is a link to his videos here
http://www.thelaminitissite.org/feet-faq--articles/robert-bowker-hoof-anatomy-videos
There is a marked up ‘before’ sole photo (bottom photo) with black lines showing where the toe and heels should be. He trims them weekly, taking a little off each time to not make the horse sore. The after photo is about 7 months later. He says you need to bring the break over to within the white line (which would give most vets/farriers a heart attack) - but afterwards the horse was hunting barefoot.
Where the white circle is shows where the frog wants to grow larger since it supports the navicular bone - trimmers/farriers try and trim it off.
PaulnasherryRocky
Well-Known Member
Oooh how did you get on top of the crack at the back of the hoof? from December to June I packed my boys feet with Red Horse Field Paste or Artimud and it helped, but it never quite went. I then switched to Hedgewith Sole Saviour which within a week made a huge difference, but every time we have a drop of rain it comes back again! Feel like I need something a bit stronger to really hit it. I'd say I'm at the same point as your middle picture at the moment.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
That's really interesting. Some of my 12 frogs are going that way! Good to know that it's a good thing!
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
Meticulously picked and brushed them out every day, brought him in at night to allow the feet to dry if wet (big, clean bed), and packed them with Sudocreme before turnout. Apple cider vinegar diluted to one part ACV, ten parts water, with a few drops of tea tree oil is a great home made, cheap remedy.
PaulnasherryRocky
Well-Known Member
Thanks, i've seen ACV being used quite a lot so I think I will definitely give ACV and tea tree a try - hadn't heard of sudocreme being used before but it has clearly worked so I will give that a go too!
lilly1
Well-Known Member
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
It's been relatively dry which has helped heaps but the CS looks great now.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
Thought this might be an interesting picture for this thread. Shoes off in January. Farrier trimmed until May. We started trimming ourselves in June. There's also been a battle with mineral balancing going on in this time!
Brownmare
Well-Known Member
There is a lot going on with that foot! I'd be interested to see a sole view if you have one?
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
2nd September
Today
It's straightening up again but it went very wonky while the farrier was trimming.
Today
It's straightening up again but it went very wonky while the farrier was trimming.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
WOW! That was one badly unbalanced and sick foot! So much improved in the top third, just look at that wonky event line come level ?
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
The last time the farrier saw her I said I was a bit concerned because she'd had the shoes off for a while but the back of her foot didn't seem to be beefing up like it was supposed to... he basically said that that's just what her feet are like. I knew that wasn't true because before moving up here and before getting shoes on the back of her foot was much beefier! He suggested feeding seaweed. Given that my mineral problem is too much iron, manganese and molybdenum that would probably not have been a good move!
I don't think the wonky foot is entirely down to the farrier. Partly it's been the minerals too I think. But all we've done to correct it is a very, very basic trim. Started trimming every couple of weeks but then read a bit more and have started trimming roughly twice a week now and the rate of improvement went up accordingly. I think with the trim we're doing if she "needed" a wonky foot it would have stayed wonky...
Firefly9410
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this thread! I have learned such a lot from it. Mine is unshod and I have a great farrier. The hooves are good and always have been. I feel lucky! Sorry some of you have had such a bad time with hoof care professionals.
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
Just found this shod pic. Same foot a year apart. He spent about 9 months in shoes before I got fed up of watching the foot change for the worse. Added lines for anyone who needs a visual.
Aug 2019, looking a bit bullnose, long toe and HPA slightly broken back.
Sept 2020, now using barefoot trimmer.
He's slowly getting some concavity to the foot and the frog is opening up. Now the sole isn't being trimmed into oblivion he is also fine on all surfaces.
Aug 2019, looking a bit bullnose, long toe and HPA slightly broken back.
Sept 2020, now using barefoot trimmer.
He's slowly getting some concavity to the foot and the frog is opening up. Now the sole isn't being trimmed into oblivion he is also fine on all surfaces.