Show Photographers - Feedback please

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LittleSoph

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southeastriders.myfanforum.org
Hi guys. Hope this is Ok to put here.... (Also in CR)

I run a nationwide event photography company, called Big Image Photography... (www.bigimagephotos.co.uk)
We do the odd local equine event which aren't amazing money spinners, as well as a lot of other different events... but I'd like to get into the big shows. The county events, the breed society shows, etc. We do a lot of prestigious events in other industries and travel the country photographing some fab things, but this industry seems such a closed shop...

We have been running for just over a year now and are finally now in contention with some of the bigger photography companies and tweaking our services down to the fine details... We need to make sure we can approach show organisers knowing we are offering what their competitors want.

I just wondered if I could get feedback on things you either really like about particular photographers, or show photographers in general, or things that you'd change, or bugged you?

Eg. Products they've offered that you love, the way they set up, the types of photos they take that set them apart from other togs...

Thank you in advance for your help.
 
It bugs me when photographers are at shows but only take photos of the interesting rings. I know it is difficult to do it all, but if im doing a M&M class I dont see why the show jumping gets priority over it!
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other than that I think you all do an amazing job with the photos you take!
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still waiting for photos to go up from the weekend...........(diff company!) its getting annoying now!
 
It's nice when the photographers at sponsored rides use different jumps on the different years. I don't really want the same photo every year! Also I echo the above about speedily getting them on the website.
 
1. I dislike photographers who go home before the show is ended. I want to finish the class, sort my horse out, then look at the photographs.

2. Put proofs of all the pictures up on a website, sorted by class/section and have an online purchase facility.

3. Be able to sell pictures on the day electronically (I always keep a memory stick in the lorry) as not everyone wants prints.

4. Get the pictures to the place where people can look at them quickly. Noone wants to stand around for an extra hour in the rain waiting for the pictures to turn up!

5. Use cameras with a rapid burst facility. I am sick of jumping pictures that show us on take-off and like to buy those mid-air and would buy ones of landing too.

6. With the burst facility, consider offering a montage picture showing 5 (or so) pictures of the approach, take-off, mid-air, land and depart. Interesting, novel and a useful aid to training.
 
The current tog I work for is really professional, very friendly, makes everyone laugh which I think it important. I worked for a grumpy bugger last year and the morale of staff was far lower!!

Current tog sells photographs on the day, 9x6 monted is £10. This is the only size they offer on the day and it works pretty well for them. Only a select number of images are uploaded onto their site, special requests etc, which ensures the majority of their revenue from the show will be made at the show, not 3 weeks or months later. Good idea IMO.

Best shots that seem to sell well- can't beat a good head shot in a showing class with a nice background and no owner in the frame!! Likewise the normal trotting and cantering pics when they are going round the ring.

SJ wise, I (and the tog I work for) prefer portrait shots, getting really up close to the competitor, they from what I have seen seem to do pretty well... something like this always grabs the competitor's eye when they are viewing thumbnails-
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Each photographer is instructed to put 1 class on a memory card, memory cards then get put in a plastic wallet with the class name/no and into a box by the side of the ring, which is then collected by the person who is running the van. Very organised and effecient, and no cards go missing
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All photos from the day are printed in thumbnail size, we don't miss a competitor unless it's vital (i.e. the photographer keels over and dies
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).

I think the problem with the equine photography is that most shows will have a photographer from last year, and if they are happy with them will let them come again. It's only when a tog gives up/sells up that shows become available for another tog to shoot. The other problem with this sector is you need to get to the right shows- riding club points shows from experience aren't worth doing- the same people do the same classes on the same horses every month. BSJA is a good one, but not when you get to the 1.30m big classes as many riders do not own the horses, and many of the owners don't go to thes show- so who is your target audience?

We found the One Day Events, Pony Club shows, hunter trials, schools SJ are best, anything where the kids are involved- the PC mums always buy photos of little **** going round the clear round/in their first showing class...
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ETA: To the poster above- selling electronically is actually great for the competitor, but it's basically giving away copyright. Once the image is on a memory stick the competitor can print it off hundreds of times if they wish, and that could have been several copies of the same print sold by the tog... So the tog looses out big time... hence why many only offer prints.
 
The only time I have ever bought a professional photo was at the festival of champions show you had to qualify for, because that was a big deal for us and felt really special - we've never qualified for anything before. The people there were in every ring and the photographers seemed to work hard to get a variety of shots of everyone - not just the winner at the end. They also had nabbed a couple of flowers and a FOC banner for outside were you could stand the horses infront of a nice countryside background with all your prizes and feel very special as they took photos of you on your own outside the class. It was fantastic for making the day seem bigger for the average rider.

They had a website, but also had facilities for buying on the day and offered a 2 for 3 deal. We were going to only buy the one of our pony stood up with her prizes, but because of this deal we ended up getting that one, a shot of sister handler with pony - double portrait, and a shot of me on pony stood up in the lineup - front on. It felt really really special.

Recently however I was at a show with a different company photographing. They only did a few rings and were very slow in getting the thumbnails up. I just wanted to go home and the lady working their stall couldn't tell me if there were any photos still to come from my ring. I then asked if they had a website and her response was, and I quote: 'well this is a small show so we're not going to bother putting up as we've got quite a few championship shows today as well'.

I was so insulted I just walked away without the card, but I do remember the name of the company and it will take the most perfect photo in the world to convince me to buy from them now. It maybe wasn't a big show, but the achievements I got meant a lot to me and that spoiled the day for me. All she had to do was be polite and say they wern't going to be going on the website and that would have been that, but her attitude lost any sale on the day, and future sales from me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, like in any retail venture, customer service is the most important thing. The photographers who go the extra mile to make the event special to all competitors, regardless of the level, are the ones who'll get my custom.
 
[ QUOTE ]
ETA: To the poster above- selling electronically is actually great for the competitor, but it's basically giving away copyright. Once the image is on a memory stick the competitor can print it off hundreds of times if they wish, and that could have been several copies of the same print sold by the tog... So the tog looses out big time... hence why many only offer prints.

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When I buy a print, I immediately scan it in to my PC and print of multiple copies anyway, so what's the difference? They don't loose anything as I would never pay them for these other copies.

I also like to tidy up a good picture in Paint Shop Pro (edit out people, other horses, cars, advertising boards, etc. in the background).

I have only met 1 who refused to sell it to me on a memory stick, and I just walked away so they got no business from me. The customer is always right!
 
I'm just talking from experience too. Got to say though I wouldn't sell a photo electronically, and if you're scanning in every photo you buy, you're actually breaching copyright. If the tog who you bought the photos from found out, I doubt he would be best pleased.

It takes a lot of time/effort/money/skill/dedication to be a sports tog as most people would appreciate- standing in the middle of a field for 10 hours a day is not glamorous and it's bloody hard work. I would personally (and most of the togs I know down here would feel the same) be livid if someone blatently breached copyright on any photo I sold. No photographer- be them covering horse events, other sports, weddings etc etc would in their right mind let people buy a photograph and put it onto a memory stick. It's throwing money away. If we allowed it, everybody would be running up to us at shows waving memory sticks, and profit would go down the drain.

Sorry Soph for going off topic!! x
 
Rubbish! Who else in the right mind would buy photographs of me riding my horse? The photographer has the choice of selling 1 copy to me and letting me do what I like with it, or selling zero. If you carry on with that attitude, you might maintain the moral high ground, but you will not make a lot of money. In fact, you make more profit by selling it electronically as you don't have to pay the costs of printing.

Scanners, computers, high-res colour printers and the internet arrived some years ago. Most of the photographers around here have recognised that and embraced these technologies. I have not seen the who refused to sell me that picture again, so he probably took his box brownie, got in his Model T Ford and drove back to the 20th Century.
 
Who else would buy photos of you and your horse? Anybody- we've had show organisers purchase photographs to display on websites/in leaflets/show schedules and the press (if a representative hasn't been there on the day).

It's not rubbish- it's someone's living you're basically exploiting, not just a moral high ground. Fair enough if you want to scan in a photo, but don't blatently admit to it! I still maintain the opinion that if I found out anybody had reproduced an image I had taken, I would not be best pleased.

Don't lecture me on how my earnings will be affected- I work on a freelance basis and therefore hand all images over to the photographer who owns the company. I have in the past seen many photos being bought twice- perhaps not on the day, but many people will come back wanting a photo for another family member, friend etc etc, and if we said "yes, you buy the photo, the copyright is yours" (which is basically what happens if you upload onto a memory stick), that is another £10 or whatever lost.

You've got to remember that people need to make a living out of show photography and it's not easy... It's just like sharing music, burning cds, downloading illegally... all takes the same form of breaching copyright and somebody at the end of the day is out of pocket
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That's all I will say on the subject, I think I have got my point across and yes it's hit a raw nerve. Sorry Soph for going off topic!!
 
Errr... can I just mention one thing...
Our photos are actually scan proof. We have signs stating this and therefore do not sell the electronic copy as, like Twizzle points out, it stops us from selling multiple copies. There are very very very few people who'd say they'll buy the electronic copy or buy nothing. Most people are happy to buy a photo, from the photographer... it's what they expect. Also, the beauty and popularity of on site printing is because so many of us have digital photos nowadays but never get round to printing them, and when we do they aren't on 'proper' printers or in a nice mount... they're on fadeable ink jet prints... So people like to be able to take a 'studio quality' print away, ready to frame, there and then. That's what we find anyway, this is why the whole idea works so well for the majority of cases.

When our photos are scanned they have a 'proof' stamped across them. We often sell more than one copy of a photo, for grandparents, etc.

Not only this... people don't understand the value of the copyright. How can you price something that can be duplicated a million times, sent to all family and friends for free via email and can be printed for very little in most supermarkets these days?

I understand what some of you are saying but IMO selling electronic copies is more hassle than it's worth. Interesting how many of you mentioned it though. I may think about doing CDs with multiple images to make it worth our while selling them electronically.
 
I cheat i go on the sponsored rides and jump the one with the photographer so i can have a good pic and thats it , not risking my neck for nothing, might as well have a picture haha then i buy the best one so when im old the grankids can see what nanny did when she was young lol
 
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