Show result, and rant about awfull Judging!!!!

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zoelouisem

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Ive come away from a show firstly with happiness for my 6 year old you did her 1st First Ridden. She came 4th, she rode amazingly and he was an angel!! Which is the most important thing.

But i cant help be disappointed by the judging at the show. There were several what i would call mistakes by the judge in that ring!! Its not me been sour as we came away with 4th rosettes in both our classes.
First thing my daugter also did lead rein best rider, where we walked round in a group the judge then asked us to have a small trot, 10 stides maximum then called us in she then said i dont want individual shows and proceeded to tell us half a cirlcle in trot was enoungh on one rein!! That was it!! She then gave out the rosettes!! I must admit after i did question as i felt that i hadnt got to show her riding off properly! She then saif they were running out of time!! I didnt want to get into well maybe the 45 lunch break they put in that wasnt in the schedule (so loads of people warmed up to be told that the classses were delayed) also id paid my entries as everybody else so why couldnt we have our class judged properly!!


Then i had the teenages i teach in open best rider, theyd both warmed up only to have to get off again due to the unscheduled lunch break! (i understand that they need lunch but if it had been written in the schedule the girls would not have been on there ponies for so long. So they did the group bit then got pulled in 2nd and 4th so not doing bad, then they had the individual shows both rode well, 3/4 of the way through 2 late arrivals were allowd in both in totally incorrect turnout, one had O/R boots both had 3 ring gags in on the bottem ring only with 1 rein on which is also incorrest. In the end they they got 1st and 2nd!!! And then the comment the judge made to one of the girls whos pony was good but slightly lively the judge said oh just a whack a stonger bit in!!! This is to a girl who a) doesnt know how to use oneproperly, and b) when the pony has had stonger bits by other riders hes had a tendancy to go up!!!! He wasnt even that lively just a bit on his toes at no point was he going to bolt off!!

The turnout in alot of the higher places people in all the classes was very bad and not marked down. In the lead rein pony class the leaders had jeans and trainers on 2nd place!!!!!!

I know its unaffilitated but surely the correct way should be encouraged from early on these were all junior classes so are still learning and should be advised the right way!!!

This isnt sour grapes or anything all my girls did very well and im very pleased with all of them, they all rode well and came away with rosettes but its annoys me that these shows dont encourage the junoirs the way i was when i was younger, My mum would never have dreamed to take me in on a lead in jeans and trainers even unaffiliated we would have been chucked out the ring!!!!!

I just think there are showing rules and they should be stuck to whatever level. Reminds me why i showjumped most my life and as soon as my little girl is bigger i will encourage her too, you either clear all the jumps quick enough or you dont!!!!
 
LOL i was at an affliated show where a woman went in the ring in an inhand class with jeans a polo shirt schooing whip and baseball cap.. and won the class
honestley .. i wouldnt moan.. at least a fun day was had!
 
I couldn't agree more; the standard of judging at these kind of shows should reflect the higher up levels otherwise how do you know what to aim for if there is no consistency? My daughter age 6 and a lovely correct rider on a lovely well behaved lead rein ponygot beaten in a lead rein rider class by a child who couldn't rise to the trot in fact had trouble staying on and got rewarded for his "bravery".......aaaaargh!
 
I know i find it very fustrating, im a stickler for turnout and go on to the girls i teach to up there standards but the standard of turnout at these shows ive gone to over the summer have been so bad, they have nothing to reach for, there both gonna have a shock as they both want to start affiliated classes and there really gonna have a shock as the unaffiltated standards really seem to have gone down. Bring on new year where im heading to the bigger show!!!
 
If you want correct standards.. go to unaffiliated.
Strictly speaking best rider should be best rider, not most correct/best turnout..
 
SusieT said:
If you want correct standards.. go to unaffiliated.
Strictly speaking best rider should be best rider, not most correct/best turnout..
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Yes we are going affilited next year as shes so young wanted to get some low key shows under her belt for her confidence!!

Yes i agree to a certain extent although its a ridden showing class in the ridden showing ring so should be turned out correctly, the horses should not be in 3 ring gags on the bottem ring with arriving nearly half an hour late.
And the lady with jeans and trainers on was in the lead rein class whcih should be turned out properly.
And juniors should not be encouraged to whack a stong bit in because it will make there ride easier.
I woulnt expect them to be turned out to compete at royal windsor but should make an effort to turn out in a showing manor!
 
That's fine-take it all as experience then. At unaffiliated level I have no problem with people being in jeans and a polo shirt, nor do I have a problem with a strong pony being bitted appropriately. (I am sure she did not say whack a strong bit in it in those words!)
It does sound like sour grapes I'm afraid.
 
I honestly cannot stand the showing world... Purely personal and from experience and stories I've heard.

I feel like it's not judged on how you perform, more on how well you know the judge. A close friend took her horse and he went very well and was positively commented on by the judge, then not even placed and those who where placed went very poorly... :confused:

It baffles me! I'm sure it's only a minority of judges who do this and most of them are honest and professional at what they do.
 
You certainly see some interesting decisions in the show ring.

Twice in ridden welsh classes I've been placed below horses that are lame (and one of those was at an affiliated show, the other at a minor county show), and below a horse that required proper pony club kicking to get it into canter. And at a local unaffiliated show I did the other week the 3rd and 4th placed horses in the riding horse class (judged on conformation and way of going) were both hideously hollow. Sure, their noses were vertical but there was no working through from behind.

To me at local level some allowances should be made for turnout (e.g. kids competing working hunter in black or navy jackets) as not everyone can afford to have smart 'correct' gear especially if they only compete occasionally. BUT people should be tidy and have made an effort to be as correct as they can i.e. no boots and gags in showing classes etc.
 
No her words were to a 13 year old girl 'He was a bit lively, just whack a stonger bit in, it will make your ride easier!!'
No we all came away with rosettes as i said my daughter came 4th in her first 1st ridden so couldnt be happier with the result for her.
I just think for an well established riding club show the standards of judging should be higher and espeacailly juniors should be encouraged to do it properly!!
 
I agree with SuzieT regarding the ridden class. We had a lady who turned up to our yard show and both herself and her horse were immaculate regarding turnout but rode like a bag of spanners and the horse had it's head in the air all the way round. Another girl decided to do the class on the day (last minute) and although her horse was neat enough she wore jeans and a top that i would wear to a night club (young people, tusk!!!) any way the young girl came higher because both she and her horse went beautifully.
The other woman snatched her rosette and very loudly ranted on about the judging being a farce and pointed very rudely at the young girl (who didn't know where to look). The judge showed the woman her score sheet and showed that she got 8 out of 10 for turnout but 5's and 6's for her riding where as the girl got scored 3 out of 10 for her turnout but scored 7, 8's and even a 9 for her riding.

Some people just cant accept that just because you wear the show gear and you washed your pony doesn't make you a better rider.

However, out of pride and because i personally think it's the right thing to do and encourage in others. I myself and my children would wear the appropriate clothing.

Showing is so subjective and you have to have a thick skin to complete in it. Someone has to come first and someone last but my choice and your choice on who that should be would probably be very different.

Well done for the 4th, good luck in your next show and i would carry on wearing the correct clothing, your doing the right thing.
 
My pet hate is people in showing class in jeans/trainers/hoodies/tracksuits etc etc etc.
If you know you are entering a showing class just pop on the right clothes its not really that difficult or just something smart.
Sorry will stop now it really annoys me.
Well done on your placings today
 
Sadly showing decisions are down to the judge.
I had one season where my roan came nowhere as the judge in question-who turned up at every show!-had a bad experience with a roan and hated them! :o
Just a quick note about affiliated-I'm pretty sure that if you go in the best lead rein then you can't do 1st ridden as if the child enters one class on lead rein they have to be on it for the day.
 
miss_bird said:
My pet hate is people in showing class in jeans/trainers/hoodies/tracksuits etc etc etc.
If you know you are entering a showing class just pop on the right clothes its not really that difficult or just something smart.
Sorry will stop now it really annoys me.
Well done on your placings today
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Thankyou i had tears where i was so pleased with her, shes only 6 and the otherchildren were a good few years older than her so i was happy.

Yes i think the title 'showing' should be taken into account!!! Im not saying that the person in the most expensive stuff should win or the weakest bit, but a little bit of effort and but the rules are rules and gags are not 'correct' and nor are jeans or trainers!!
Some smart trousers and a shirt would be enought and if you need a strong bit but dont want to go to a double a pelham woth 2 reins, afterall showing whatever class is about presentation too!!
 
WoopsiiD said:
Sadly showing decisions are down to the judge.
I had one season where my roan came nowhere as the judge in question-who turned up at every show!-had a bad experience with a roan and hated them! :o
Just a quick note about affiliated-I'm pretty sure that if you go in the best lead rein then you can't do 1st ridden as if the child enters one class on lead rein they have to be on it for the day.
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Hiya, yer that is the usuall but she didnt do lead rein pony, it was best rider on the lead rein as there was only an open best rider not a junior best rider, i did ring before i sent my entries, she wasnt allowd in lead rein pony but could do lead rein best rider, confusing i know but its was apprently because they didnt have time to do all so they condensed hence been allowd to do it that way.

Yes it is hard the showing world, i must admit i prefer showjumping but i think showing is a good way for kids to get there schooling going and realise its not all about galloping and jumping.
 
I suppose part of the problem is getting judges who are experienced to do unaffiliated shows. I've never done any judging and haven't shown in years but I agree with those who pointed out that while you may get marked down for turnout, it doesn't necessarily take you out entirely - if your riding is good, it can even out.

I know when I first started showing, I couldn't afford the whole kit and I was wearing rubber riding boots and no jacket for the first few shows. And while my bit was fine, if it had been an improper one I would have been out of luck as I couldn't afford to buy another.

I don't know - I think the most important thing about those shows is the experience gained. How else do you learn?
 
The turnout is like wearing school uniform-so you dress a certain way to make it a level playing field. The animal's way of going should be the deciding factor but not if it is wearing innappropriate tack. If you have bothered to present a clean well -turned out pony and rider that is part of the "show" and should be taken into account. Otherwise we might as well all go straight from the field!
 
First of all, well done on your placings and I'm sorry the judge wasn't by the sound of things, the most conventional of showing judges.

I understand what you mean about people, even unaffiliated, going in to the inhand showring wearing jeans, t-shirts and trainers and I personally find this very annoying. After all, the title of the discipline itself is "Showing" thus indicating that perhaps some element of self presentation is required even though the judges are looking at the pony/horse and not its handler. A well groomed pony/horse should after all be shown by a well groomed handler should it not?

Judges are only human and do make mistakes and to me, the "Whack a stronger bit in" phrase sounds like a mistake. The judge may have not been thinking and a phrase that sounds very undesirable may have slipped out. The judge may have also been inexperienced although I would be a little concerned that the rider would take heed of this advice and should know what is best for her mount prior to making a decision like this.

At the end of the day it is the judges decision as to whether they are looking for turnout or ability of the rider when marking a class. As I mentioned before, the discipline is after all, called Showing thus indicating sloppy turnout is a no no but good equitation no matter what discipline is always vital, particularly when showing off a pony or horse to its full potential. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. If you feel angry, why not talk to the show organizers about it and see what comments they can offer?

I am afraid to say this is why I personally show with the BSPS as I feel a higher standard of judging is given although I know that this is not always possible. Judges, regardless whether affiliated or unaffiliated should all offer the same level of professionalism and avoid making comments that sound unprofessional or novice like - such as "Whack a stronger bit in."
 
Thankyou, i was over the moon with her placings shes only 6 so shes doing extremly well to be doing first ridden classes and even more so to get placed!

Yes were going to do affiliated showing next year, just getting her confidence this year as shes still so young!

Yes dont get me wrong im not saying they all have to be in expensive kits ect. at unaffilited the idea is to have fun, i dont mind kids in rubber boots and even school blazers but least theyve made some effort and there tidy. But i think they should be in correct tack, again you dont have to spend an absolute fortune on bits ect. to have the correct kit. Effort can go a long way, my daughters stuff is 2nd hand from our tack shop, as stuff is expensive and they do outgrow so quickly.
But yes jeans and trainers is no effort at all it doesnt take much to look a little bit smart.
To be honest most my experiences at the local shows have been good, the judges have been very encouraging to my daughter, and judged very fairly.
I will write an email not to complain but just to outline my diappointment. I was looking into pony clubs recently and this riding club is in quite close association so will definatly go elsewhere now.
 
charmeroo said:
You try finding showing judges for riding club shows! Nightmare!!
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Yes! I've been asked to judge at a RC show next week.....I haven't shown in this area for years and when I did show many years ago(at county level) it was usually in hand M&Ms.

Soooooo, the ring I've been given is riding horse, cobs, LR and FR - talk about having to do my homework this week:eek: these are classes that I have never taken a huge amount of notice of so don't really know the finer details of but as they have a longstanding judge who wants to do the inhand ring and they are desperate for judges......off I go next weekend and hope I don't get lynched:p

Take pity on some of the judges - when I was asked if I'd do it months ago, I told the RC what I could reasonably do and it was only last week that I got the sob story about how they would have to cancel that ring if a) I wouldn't do it and b) do a full day (and championships) instead of finishing at 1pm!!
 
I think it's irrelevant whether the class is unaffiliated or affiliated. The judge should meet a certain standard. Certainly a criteria should be correct turnout & tack.

I've seen some simply appaling judging at aff & unaff. I wouldn't generally show affiliated, it's too expensive, too cliquey and too much faff. When I go unaff now it's usually just for the outing and I am pleasantly suprised when the judging is sensible, which is a great shame really - it's not that hard!
 
siennamum said:
When I go unaff now it's usually just for the outing and I am pleasantly suprised when the judging is sensible, which is a great shame really - it's not that hard!
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Have you done it then?

Not being snarky or anything, just genuinely curious. Cause I've now judged for a riding club twice, and it was so much harder than I anticipated. Particularly the last class, where I stood with three horses walking around at the end of a full go round and personal show class, and could have put any of them first. I expect there were plenty of grumbles about my judging there. The way I put them was grey, mainly white coloured, bay and I am known to have a grey horse myself, so I'm sure someone will have decided that I place by colour not by performance. By coincidence it also went lighter horse, chunky, chunky, so I'm sure others would say I obviously like my lighter types.

You can pretty much construct any reason, for any class result, that making the judging rediculous.

Unfortunately OP, this is local showing for you. I admit what you experienced sounds rediculous. Though, it can be worth baring in mind that sometimes show organisers tie the hands of the judges. If they havn't specified a certain type of bit only, then it's debatable whether a judge should be allowed to place down for a 3 ring gag. Even at affiliated, there's no written rules against this type of bit I believe. It's unwritten.

Placing ponies that havn't done the go round is out of order, however, and should not have happened.

Sometimes you get ok judges, sometimes it's whoever they've found at the last minute. Though I do think people don't appreciate how difficult it is to find judges, nevermind ones who know what they are doing. Most high level judges are also competitors - so they can't just give up all their weekends to judge.

Honestly, I'd recommend sticking to affiliated where possible. Your little girl will get much more consistency in terms of what she is expected and her placings. It's also really not that different from unaffiliated, just tends to be better organised and fancier rosettes at the end - a plus from all aspects!

I would also disagree affiliated is facey - at least no more so than affiliated dressage.
 
cbmcts said:
Take pity on some of the judges - when I was asked if I'd do it months ago, I told the RC what I could reasonably do and it was only last week that I got the sob story about how they would have to cancel that ring if a) I wouldn't do it and b) do a full day (and championships) instead of finishing at 1pm!!
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I'll be the first person to admit that showing is not my cup of tea, but its something I have a reasonable amount of experience of, as an observer.

Firstly, I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to judge, when you have to put up with rude obnoxious and disrespectful riders (children & adults) who are all pigtails, makeup and smiles until they aren't pulled out by the judge, they then have a tantrum and leave the ring before the class has ended and theyve been released by the judge in a strop. The poor judge then has to run the gauntlet of irate parents ranting about how their daughters pony cost £15 000 how could it possibly be beaten by the winner etc....

Full marks to the judge below:

"The other woman snatched her rosette and very loudly ranted on about the judging being a farce and pointed very rudely at the young girl (who didn't know where to look). The judge showed the woman her score sheet and showed that she got 8 out of 10 for turnout but 5's and 6's for her riding where as the girl got scored 3 out of 10 for her turnout but scored 7, 8's and even a 9 for her riding."

Is it any wonder that judging is so uneven...who in their right mind would put themselves in line of that.

You seem to go from the sublime to the ridiculous in that you can have people throwing money at it, immaculately turned out riders on hideously expensive horses - pot hunting and then, the "What ever" slapped together tack and riding wear.

The worst thing about showing is that it is so subjective, plus at a certain level all the horses and riders must blur into one unless there is something really memorable or striking about horse or rider, you try remembering who did what in a class of 20 odd!

I think I'd rather staple my tongue to the fence then judge a showing class and put up with all the **** that goes with it


"
 
We went to a show on Saturday and my daughter took her pony in the Show Hunter class- mainly because there wasnt a lot else to do. She came last out of seven behind a cob who cantered on the wrong leg throughout, a 12.2 who didnt win the little class so went in the 14.2. The judge was on her phone during the judging, and after she gave out the rossettes(only to 6th) wasnt even going to acknowledge my daughter! But we still took the best pony home.:)
 
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