show ring trouble

[Shantara]

Am I the only one who's horse refuses to go in the show ring? (show jumping)
he's always had a fear of being alone and although I can get him in with a lot of effort, it is very difficult to keep him going.
Im lucky that the show grounds are where he's kept, so I can take him in that field when the ground dries a bit and use the same technique I used with him to get him used to the school.
Does anyone have any other tips to try while I wait for the ground to dry?

Would love to hear some success stories!

ignore my spelling/grammar, im on my phone.

 

[blood_magik]

mine used to be like that.
he had been pushed too far and beaten when he didn't do well

it's taken us 6 years to get him to go all the way round a course at a show - he always jumps pretty much anything when we're schooling.

we went right back to basics - 90cms as a big pat no matter how far he got. the first time, he got to fence four before he freaked out. the next time, he got to fence six.

eventually, he started to jump all of the fences but try to get over them as quickly as possible.

now we're working on rhythm and control.
is your horse actually scared of leaving his friends, or is he taking the mickey?

 

[tls]

Take him hunting my mare used to be like that was a right pain going into the ring and out hacking but is no much improved after a few days hunting, it really does help change their attitude. She used to play up going onto lorry as well but now she gallops up the ramp!!

 

[Shantara]

Thanks guys!
tls, he does hunt (not with me though) and although its helped him a bit, he's seemed to have got all he can out of it. I was thinking of assking to join a drag hunt soon, so ill give it another go, if I can thanks!

blood magik, that sounds just like ned! Although he loves jumping (he actually took me over a jump the other day, even though I hadn't asked!) I think it is a real fear, when I first took him in the school alone, he was in a blind panic. I had to jump off and go back with a new plan, which worked!
We think ned must have suffered some abuse at one point or another and possibly used as a road racer.
He can fly round when he feels confident, we managed to get 2nd twice! I just need him to get oover the fear and excitement.
thanks again

 

[MagicMelon]

mine used to be like that.
he had been pushed too far and beaten when he didn't do well

it's taken us 6 years to get him to go all the way round a course at a show - he always jumps pretty much anything when we're schooling.

I had a horse in the past like this too and had had exactly the same past experience sadly. I battled with him for 5 years, trying going back to basics etc. but in the end I had to give up and sell him as a hack. Very occasionally he'd be ok, and jump beautiful clear rounds all day but 85% of the time it took ages to get in the ring and he'd give up 1/4 or 1/2 the way round the course, he'd just grind to a halt and give up. Such a shame as the horse was so talented and would jump anything in schooling / lessons!

 

[Shantara]

This is Ned at his worst.
To be fair, I was at my worst too that day! I did so many things wrong, it's not even funny!

Hopefully I can get there, he was worse in the school when I first started, so I think he just needs some times and patience.
I wish I could get up there every day But I can only go once a week untill I pass my driving test.

[youtube]JD1KQSrBYjk[/youtube]

 

[blood_magik]

that looks familiar

 

[blood_magik]

this is my boy now.
he used to do what ned is doing.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=GB#/watch?v=LeZAl43xOdI

 

[Shantara]

this is my boy now.
he used to do what ned is doing.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=GB#/watch?v=LeZAl43xOdI

Ooh, the link isn't working for me D:

 

[blood_magik]

well you're not missing anything spectacular :0
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=GB#/watch?v=LeZAl43xOdI

 

[hcm88]

I bought one years ago who was very similar. Sold to me as a horse who had never been taken out, yet this was obviously a lie. If I even got him anywhere near the ring in the first place he'd then proceed to buck, leap, rear everything you name it until a) I came off or b) I gave in. I tried absolutely everything with him, took him back to basics starting at a 1ft9 clear round - still wouldn't do that. I did resort to leading him round, where he improved yet not enough. Eventually I gave up as it got dangerous, I think sometimes you just get to a point where enough is enough- if the horse doesn't want to do it then the horse doesn't want to do it. I sold him as a light school/hack as he was perfect at home. It's a real shame but he was just so unhappy at shows that it wasn't fair on him!

As he's kept at the show ground have you tried just lunging him in the arenas? I assume that the horses at the show with him are also those that he lives with too? So perhaps he has some kind of attachment to them. Does he hack alone? If you think it really is fear then you've got to treat him as a bit of a baby and go back to absolute basics. Maybe take him in the arena as if you're going to jump but don't actually jump anything, just trot him around the outside of the ring. If it's separation anxiety you want to do a lot of ground handling with him, lunging and leading him around the arena etc. You could even start this off with another horse with you/nearby so he's comfortable, then eventually 'wean' him off as such, so he's doing it alone.

Good luck, I know the feeling!

 

[dafthoss]

Your probably not going to like this but I think you would both benefit from doing some dressage and getting this behaviour sorted without having to worry about jumps. Then when you can reliably get him in the arena and do a test without napping then you can move on to jumping. The jumps are just an extra complication that he doesnt need right now get him confident on his own in that environment then add the jumps.

 

[SmallHunter]

From the video it looks to meas though the problem is he really doesn't want to leave the other horse which is why heis napping towards the gate.

Does he hack alone? Can you take him up there without any other horses?

 

[Shantara]

Thank you hcm88!!

I haven't tried lunging, he's never done it before and neither have I! It's something I think we should both learn.
I'd say about 30% of the horses at the shows also live with him, the rest travel to compete. He certainly feels attachment to them, as I think he also feels resentful to horses he doesn't know. It took him AGES to be accepted at the yard, so I think he feels they're his special friends now.
He doesn't hack alone, he doesn't even lead the rides. If I ask, he stops, if I ask again he backs up and if I ask again he'll either repeat the first 2 steps, or rear.

I was thinking of doing it like I did in the school.
I walked him around in his dually, with all his tack on too. I'd show him the 'scary' corners and if he backed away, I'd let him, but I'd stay in the corner and he'd eventually come over. In the jumping field, there's a scary gate and the scary caravan, so I'd show him them the most

That's a very good idea about having jumps set up, but not actually jump them. He LOVES jumping and gets far too over excited and often tries to take me over them when it's either not our turn, or we're not even jumping!

Thanks again When the ground dries up I'll certainly try what you said

Also, he seems to love my mother at the moment, so I'll drag her along to give him extra comfort hehe!

 

[Mithras]

I agree with dafthoss that its actually a flatwork issue. He is napping, he isn't obeying the aids and he has developed several rather nasty evasion techniques. I think being too soft to him and pandering to him with another horse to give him a lead in will just encourage him. And anyway, the problem does not go away when he's in the ring. He is so rude!

I would work, in walk, first of all, on absolute obedience to the aids. When you use your legs, he must go forwards. Not sideways, not backwards, but forwards. If he doesn't listen to your aids, back them up with a stronger aid, ie a pony club kick, squeeze with the spurs or your stick. The difference between "professional" riders and amateurs is that they tend to have zero tolerance towards any disobediance of the aids. Try to get away from feeling sorry for him for being pushed too hard in the past, he's hardly being pushed now, is he? And you aren't doing him any favours by not curing this behaviour. I think you have to be much, much stricter. There is no real deterrent for him not doing as you ask, is there?

Though whether his bad habits are now so ingrained in him is another matter. Some of those tricks - spinning and dropping his shoulder for instance - are just plain nasty. Doesn't surprise me to learn that he doesn't hack alone either.

 

[Shantara]

Dafthoss: We don't have dressage at the shows, however, I've done one little test on him and he was extremely well behaved. He stopped when I asked, trotted and even reined back when I wanted. I may try and do the same test in the jumping arena, since I did the test in the school.
He really enjoys popping a little jump, so I may perhaps get him used to it in-hand, then do some ground work and if he does that well, pop a small jump at the end.

Smallhunter: Yea, it's definately his fear of leaving the other horses. I don't think he's being silly, I do think it's a genuine fear. I've seen him being beaten very very hard with a whip and he still didn't move. (Needless to say, I told his owner and the rider was punished.)
Like I said in the post above (I posted just after you did, so I didn't see your post untill I had posted mine) he doesn't hack alone, he doesn't even lead the ride!
Yea, I can take him up with or without other horses

 

[Wizzkid]

Well done you! That looks like really hard work!!
Im guessing he is just very insecure boy Maybe try hacking out next to another horse for a while that might help him to start feeling a bit more brave.
Good luck

 

[Shantara]

Sorry Mithras, but I don't think he needs harsher punishment, I think he needs time and patience. Harder punishment has been tried (not by me) and it just makes him worse.
I don't ride in spurs and I don't like using my whip.
He's a rescue, from goodness knows what, so I don't want to go beating him and end up making him even more scared of going in, I want him to enjoy it!
While I do agree that professionals should have 0 tolerance to bad behaviour, I don't think it should be fixed with the whip, at least not with horses like Ned.
I should note that I'm not pandering to him, I understand he has lots of baggage. I would use my whip on 'good' horses like Archie, because he's older and he knows better and does take the mick.

I do push him. We've gone from following another horse in ever lesson, to jumping a course in the school, a course in the jumping field, working in the school completely alone and even leading over a ditch jump, through a hedge! He is getting much better, I just need to give him one more push to get him in the show ring.

Also, I'm going to work on hacking alone when his owner gets more land. There's a hideous road we'd have to cross and I'm not risking him throwing me or bolting and crossing that with no control.

 

[Shantara]

Well done you! That looks like really hard work!!
Im guessing he is just very insecure boy Maybe try hacking out next to another horse for a while that might help him to start feeling a bit more brave.
Good luck

It's very hard work, I always end up sweating!
He's extremely insecure I sometimes hack him out with one or two others and can get him next to the other horse, and even a nose in front sometimes. He was once obviously showing off to one of the mares and went completely in front!
Thanks

 

[SophieLouBee]

If that were me in that video:

Firstly I would have got off and lead him around the course until he felt even a little more relaxed.
Then I would have got back on and walked him around until he realised that he was staying in there and it was no big deal, and he was walking calmly.
Then I'd possibly trot around once, and if he was good take him over one tiny cross and leave it at that.

He needs to get confidence from your end, whether he's napping because of feeling insecure or just being a bad boy, you need to make sure you go in with full intent to carry out what you want to achieve, even if that is just getting him to walk round once. If you don't (it sounds like you weren't feeling it on that day), he won't do it for you!

P.S. I have a young standieX mare at home, and when she goes off on one, all four legs move in a different direction at different times and she's gone before you've even had time to think about doing anything haha. She's like a crab! However, she's an angel 99% of the time and is a great jumper, she's great for tight turns and has so much scope!

 

[Lolo]

Has your instructor taken him in?

 

[Shantara]

She doesn't ride him (Instructor and his owner are the same person!) Though I'm going to try and get out there with her.

 

[Mithras]

Sorry Mithras, but I don't think he needs harsher punishment, I think he needs time and patience. Harder punishment has been tried (not by me) and it just makes him worse.
I don't ride in spurs and I don't like using my whip.
He's a rescue, from goodness knows what, so I don't want to go beating him and end up making him even more scared of going in, I want him to enjoy it!
While I do agree that professionals should have 0 tolerance to bad behaviour, I don't think it should be fixed with the whip, at least not with horses like Ned.

Using your stick to back up your legs is not "beating him". It is reinforcing your aids with another aid. I would honestly forget about jumping him until your basic flatwork is established - he doesn't obey the aids, so why is jumping him going to make it better? Although I do agree there is some merit in taking him out hunting as well as suggested above, it might actually get him going forwards, instead of every other way!

To simplify, you need to get this horse going forwards. Not lunging nicely, not leading him over obstacles, but going forwards off the leg. Whether that only be in walk for the next however many weeks so he walks wherever you ask him, is fine.

He's very, very rude, and also I think a tad confused by not strong enough aids to build up his confidence.

Your aids are very quiet and polite for a horse behaving that badly. Even if you don't want to use your stick, can you do a big pony club kick or even flap your arms a bit so he knows he will get a stronger aid if he disobeys a polite one?

Its all very well saying he is scared and is a rescue and so on, but he needs to have a future as well and not many people would want to take him on the way he is right now.

 

[Shantara]

If that were me in that video:

Firstly I would have got off and lead him around the course until he felt even a little more relaxed.
Then I would have got back on and walked him around until he realised that he was staying in there and it was no big deal, and he was walking calmly.
Then I'd possibly trot around once, and if he was good take him over one tiny cross and leave it at that.

He needs to get confidence from your end, whether he's napping because of feeling insecure or just being a bad boy, you need to make sure you go in with full intent to carry out what you want to achieve, even if that is just getting him to walk round once. If you don't (it sounds like you weren't feeling it on that day), he won't do it for you!

P.S. I have a young standieX mare at home, and when she goes off on one, all four legs move in a different direction at different times and she's gone before you've even had time to think about doing anything haha. She's like a crab! However, she's an angel 99% of the time and is a great jumper, she's great for tight turns and has so much scope!

I wasn't feeling it at ALL!
I 100% blame me for everything in that video. Although he usually does things like that, I can usually deal with it better...and not fall off!
I shouldn't have got back on and done it again, I knew neither of us were in the mood for jumping that day, I honestly don't know what I was thinking. I went up to the yard, but as soon as I tied him up for tacking up, I thought "I know this won't end well"

You're very very right about walking him around first. Apart from getting on in the first place, that was my biggest mistake. His owner/my instructor came marching up to me as soon as I got out the ring the second time and shouted "WALK THE BLOODY THING AROUND FIRST!!"...I won't be making that mistake again, hehe!

P.s Ned's nickname is crabman, haha!

 

[dafthoss]

Read what Mithras said she/he has put it much more eloquently and put more explanation in. Its a flat work issue you have here not the jumps, the jumps are just making it far worse. You say he gets excited about jumping this is where your problem lies, he is already nervous and he is not getting the leadership he needs from you as he is not reliably off your aids thus making him more nervous then you add the excitment of jumps and his brain fries and you get behaviour like this. You need to be able to take him in any where on his own and have him reliable flexing, bending forwards off your leg and slowing when asked, if you ask him to go in a corner then he needs to go there if he likes the look of that corner or not the same with when you ask him to go near the caravan. I agree with Mithras he has no consequenses for not being off your aids and then he gets pandered to when he doesnt behave with a person to follow, this is not helping him, you dont have to beat him to get him to respect your aids if you read mithras' post there are suggestions on how to go about it without beating him.

If you want to know what I would do with him PM me it doesnt involve any beating whipping or any thing like that but you need to increase his confidence and get him off your aids before you are ready to compete.

 

[Lolo]

She doesn't ride him (Instructor and his owner are the same person!) Though I'm going to try and get out there with her.

I would get her on top of him... I would assume that if she's teaching you she can ride, and therefore should be able to get on and see what he's actually doing.

I would take him in with other horses and someone leading him on the floor... Keep a constant pressure on until he yields (no matter how small his concession is!) and then praise until he starts not going forwards again.

 

[Hedgewitch13]

I also think he should be walked round the course and round the jumps rather than made to go over them. He isn't ready for what you are asking and is napping so badly it's not even worth trying. He may well be a rescue but bad behaviour still shouldn't be tolerated. At the moment he is being the boss in the partnership when he shouldn't be.

Also maybe some flatwork lessons as you don't seem too secure in the saddle. If you are going to fall off when he puts a big jump in then you really shouldn't be jumping him yet. He needs to have confidence in you and coming off him won't help. That said good luck with him!

ETS He isn't listening to any of your aids so a bit of schooling on getting him working off your legs and seat a bit more sharply will help loads.

 

[hannahmurphy]

If that were me in that video:

Firstly I would have got off and lead him around the course until he felt even a little more relaxed.
Then I would have got back on and walked him around until he realised that he was staying in there and it was no big deal, and he was walking calmly.
Then I'd possibly trot around once, and if he was good take him over one tiny cross and leave it at that.

He needs to get confidence from your end, whether he's napping because of feeling insecure or just being a bad boy, you need to make sure you go in with full intent to carry out what you want to achieve, even if that is just getting him to walk round once. If you don't (it sounds like you weren't feeling it on that day), he won't do it for you!

Exactly this. I wouldn't get a lead into the ring either, he is already napping and this will just encourage it even more. Do in hand first, when calm get on & this is where YOU need to be 100% relaxed with no tense hands on the reins, make him walk around the ring ..... Baby steps, repeat, repeat, repeat!

 

[*hic*]

I also think he should be walked round the course and round the jumps rather than made to go over them. He isn't ready for what you are asking and is napping so badly it's not even worth trying. He may well be a rescue but bad behaviour still shouldn't be tolerated. At the moment he is being the boss in the partnership when he shouldn't be.

Also maybe some flatwork lessons as you don't seem too secure in the saddle. If you are going to fall off when he puts a big jump in then you really shouldn't be jumping him yet. He needs to have confidence in you and coming off him won't help. That said good luck with him!

^^ this, plus a good deal of what Lolo and Mithras have said.

 

[Lolo]

FWIW, I had a horse who'd play that game at the start of XC rounds. He did it because he knew I was mildly helpless against him and we were a confident and established duo happily jumping 2'9+ courses. The only way I could get him going was to keep the pressure on all the time an refuse to let him face anywhere other than where I wanted him to go and keeping my leg on.



That's us, struggling. The only time I let him not face forwards is when I almost came off... He needed to respect that I was the one who was in charge and have confidence in what I was telling him to do- in your video, you aren't in charge and he is doing what he likes!