Yes you would think wouldn't you........... Maybe choose to affiliate 
showing dispare!! cant be bothered any more.
- Thread starter Uraeus
- Start date
- Joined
- 25 November 2005
- Messages
- 12,229
It is tricky being a judge, and you have to have a reason for placing the horses in that order. For some turnout would only be a consideration if there were two horses very similar and the judge would place the best and most appropriately turned out above the other whereas another judge would look at the class and immediately decide that the correctly turned out would be the ones to consider first. Particularly at a local show level there aren't any "rules" about how a class has to be judged. It is usually easy enough to place first and last, it is getting the ones in between that is tricky.
- Joined
- 8 June 2012
- Messages
- 1,271
Yes you would think wouldn't you........... Maybe choose to affiliate
"Unusual show, most 'general' judges absolutely loathe arabs witha passion & will place everything above them to make the point!"
And that includes the Arab (but including the alleged 'part arab') classes! ha ha ha ha. Although, when I came last in a class (as usually happened) it was maybe more to do with me (looking like road kill), by the time I actually got into the ring with baby horse.
And that includes the Arab (but including the alleged 'part arab') classes! ha ha ha ha. Although, when I came last in a class (as usually happened) it was maybe more to do with me (looking like road kill), by the time I actually got into the ring with baby horse.
I have problems too showing an appy! He is about 3cms too small to be registered as an appaloosa for showing in affiliated classes as his sire was a stallion registered in the Netherlands! We do coloured, foreign breeds and are starting to do veterans. Either come first or second in coloureds or at the bottom of the line depending on judge, I always try and focus on my boy behaving well and getting there and back safely. What really gets my goat is people who quite obviously make a living out of breeding/training still entering amateur/novice classes on establisjed horses, are they really that desperate for a rosette? and before anyone says anything, i know there are some very successful true amateurs out there my friend is one, but if you have your lorry sign written with your business details and a website advertising your services then you are a pro in my book, i.e. making money out of training/producing horses and to compete against people that do it for fun is sad and a bit pathetic. If i do well at one level i aim to try and do a higher level, whats the point of collecting loads of ribbons st the same level for years on end?
Try dressage or hunter trials with an arab! A lot of bias against them, but at least in the HT when we went clear they had to award it to us! When the judge comments about it being'an arab' before the class, never a good sign (& this was affiliated), or the other dreaded comment on the sheet about it being reasonable 'for an arab'. Do they have 2 heads or something??? Am I trying to compete on a cow?? No, it's a flaming horse like any other, judge it as such. Horse BTW was a previous HOYS ridden arab winner, superb stallion, unbelievable manners & conformation (Crabbet), the most amazing horse I've ever had the previledge to ride of ANY breed.
Funny thing about HT warm up area (where I have been asked to my face why I brought an arab, don't I know it's a jumping class), had just as much rudeness / comments etc about my synthetic endurance bridle! Was a very crass colour to put on a grey horse, it was after all white.....
Funny thing about HT warm up area (where I have been asked to my face why I brought an arab, don't I know it's a jumping class), had just as much rudeness / comments etc about my synthetic endurance bridle! Was a very crass colour to put on a grey horse, it was after all white.....
I was at an endurance ride with my wee ginger (who wears black tack - sorry, I've no imagination) and there was a very pretty palamino pba (I've always fancied a little blonde horsey) wearing a red bridle, rider in purple jods and the fluorescent yellow bib! that was a little too much, I think. Although, if they got lost on the ride you'd be able to see her from space, so would be easy to find again.....
But the thing is we live & let live. If someone wants to glow in the dark, that's fine, it's a free country, their choice their horse. We aren't stuck up, snobby or bitchy like the vast majority of horse disciplines. We just accept that different people have different tastes. A lot of this comes from being a very modern sport, in terms of ready to listen to new ideas, ways of doing things etc. If a BHs examiner (having done some bhs exams myself) came & watched what we did, they'd be freaked out (feeding whilst working, allowing them to drink ad lib whilst working, pouring gallons of iced water over the horses including large muscle mass areas on hot days whilst working for a few examples). Many people in other events are very judgemental, & it starts with what you are riding, the brands you wear & the brands you have on your horse. As an example, I reguarly go to ODE, talking pony club level here, to watch a horse I know. I notice how many riders use they top brand 5 point breast plate, for small jumps (smallest class about 2'6"). Is there pony / horse really at such a level that this expensive piece of kit is required over a bog standard breast plate? No. Does it enable them to get a better place? No. So why wear it? To show they can afford it, to pretend to be like their idol, to conform? All the above. Personally I don't care if they use one or not (that's the endurance side coming in again of live & let live), but in very few cases do they use it because it is needed. They are just trying to fit in, & show off to other riders / people at their yard. I just got sick of being at livery yards or eventrs where if you weren't wearing the right 'name' you got ridiculed.
I bet no-one ever commented about you using black tack at an endurance event. The ethos would be if you want black fine you wear black, don't even give two hoots about which company made it. They wouldn't even care if you used leather. So why is it then I have to put up with comments, whispers etc when I go into a collecting ring for a local HT (so no dress code beyond body protector / hat) with an arab in a white bridle?
P.S., they go for bright coloured bibs now to help competitors be safe when on the roads.
I bet no-one ever commented about you using black tack at an endurance event. The ethos would be if you want black fine you wear black, don't even give two hoots about which company made it. They wouldn't even care if you used leather. So why is it then I have to put up with comments, whispers etc when I go into a collecting ring for a local HT (so no dress code beyond body protector / hat) with an arab in a white bridle?
P.S., they go for bright coloured bibs now to help competitors be safe when on the roads.
Last edited:
- Joined
- 11 September 2005
- Messages
- 310
How big is he? He looks like a pony in the pics and if he isn't at least over 148cm he is neither a hunter nor a riding horse as you said you turned him out for. However you did say in your first post that you thought he was near perfect hunter type...I'm sorry but be really isn't, and showing is difficult enough without putting yourself in the wrong class. As others have said the ones in front of you may have been tbs but they could have been good lightweights.
If you know you are at a disadvantage you need to make sure you do everything possible to please th judge, and going in incorrectly dressed won't help! If you don't know it's wrong that's fair enough everybody has to learn.
If your boy behaved and had a good experience then that is all that matters and showing can be ridiculous and very hard when you do wonder if the judge is blind but at local level it's kind of pot luck!
I would try local coloured or rc horse classes in the future and he might be a nice working hunter pony in the future.
If you know you are at a disadvantage you need to make sure you do everything possible to please th judge, and going in incorrectly dressed won't help! If you don't know it's wrong that's fair enough everybody has to learn.
If your boy behaved and had a good experience then that is all that matters and showing can be ridiculous and very hard when you do wonder if the judge is blind but at local level it's kind of pot luck!
I would try local coloured or rc horse classes in the future and he might be a nice working hunter pony in the future.
He was doing a show hunter class! You can have 12 hh 13hh 14hh and 15hh show hunter ponies
I too am concerned at the future of judging and showing. This weekend we were placed under a horse that spent the entire time rearing and striking out at judge and handler, catching the handler quite hard on the shoulder. It should've been removed from the ring and not placed third!
Showing doesn't appeal to me at all, pretty much for all the reasons that people have stated on here.
But I think if you want to show then you really have to accept that it can be very biased and just try to enjoy the experience. Judges will always have their personal favourite types.
If you aren't happy with that then don't put yourself through it.
But I think if you want to show then you really have to accept that it can be very biased and just try to enjoy the experience. Judges will always have their personal favourite types.
If you aren't happy with that then don't put yourself through it.
He's 14.1 atm but still bum high, I only entered him in the class as other judges have told me he'l make an excellent whp/shp. The only class at my local show that comes close to this is best show hunter/riding horse so that's what I put him in. But he's very marmite, some judge's adore him and just smile from ear to ear when looking at him and watching him move, others think it's just oneore horse to look at and won't give him the time of day :-/
That's why you were placed last then, he needs to go in a class for SHP breeding to make 15HH,
plus you were not turned out correctly ( yet had 4 hours to do but CBA)
plus you were not turned out correctly ( yet had 4 hours to do but CBA)
My mum's fell wouldn't trot at his first ever show as a youngster (stage fright possibly as we'd practiced lots)...however, he's about as conformationally perfect as you can get and very true to "type". He won the class which was a fell class at a local show.
Now, if I had been judging (not that I judge but ykwim) I would have placed him below other horses with very good confo (although maybe not quite as good as him) but also true to type, who had behaved impeccably and done the trot etc seeing as it was local level.
showing is very subjective, some love it and some hate it and we all have good and bad days! Suck it up and move on...it's all experience and you've had some great advice on here...the next show will be another day!!
Now, if I had been judging (not that I judge but ykwim) I would have placed him below other horses with very good confo (although maybe not quite as good as him) but also true to type, who had behaved impeccably and done the trot etc seeing as it was local level.
showing is very subjective, some love it and some hate it and we all have good and bad days! Suck it up and move on...it's all experience and you've had some great advice on here...the next show will be another day!!
Have actually had this happen Again, I'm not a sore loser, and I generally think I deserve my score (and usually deserve a lower one haha) but was placed below a flashy friesian who went wrong three times in it's test! Yes it was a beautiful, big moving horse, but my correct moving little guy gave a much more accurate (we were spot on in terms of accuracy) and relaxed test, it just didn't have the glamour of the flashier horse, which some judges get blinded by.
Again, I'm not a sore loser, and I generally think I deserve my score (and usually deserve a lower one haha) but was placed below a flashy friesian who went wrong three times in it's test! Yes it was a beautiful, big moving horse, but my correct moving little guy gave a much more accurate (we were spot on in terms of accuracy) and relaxed test, it just didn't have the glamour of the flashier horse, which some judges get blinded by.I can't get placed locally with this horse to save my life, yet he was 4th at the Great Yorkshire in the Novice Hunters as a 4 year old! (bad photo with his mouth open but he was only 5 at the time).
Last edited:
Love the comments about looking amateurish...maybe she is an amateur! Not all of us have a different bridle for each day of the week. I think the key with a great judge is to tell people why they finished where they did. If its the turnout, or the type, or height or hat dropped you down its nice to be told this at local level, or how do amateurs learn?
I once did a lovely show on my old fashioned Welsh b but was upset when i blew the canter strike off and picked up the wrong lead. I was sure I'd bliwn it so was astonished to be placed first. The judge very kindly explained that they didn't expect a show to be foot perfect but that the pony was so mannerly and responsive when I had corrected my mistake that they thought she was a brilliant example of a child's riding pony. I know judges are under pressure but a little time to explain things goes a long way to improving the quality of what they might judge next time.
I once did a lovely show on my old fashioned Welsh b but was upset when i blew the canter strike off and picked up the wrong lead. I was sure I'd bliwn it so was astonished to be placed first. The judge very kindly explained that they didn't expect a show to be foot perfect but that the pony was so mannerly and responsive when I had corrected my mistake that they thought she was a brilliant example of a child's riding pony. I know judges are under pressure but a little time to explain things goes a long way to improving the quality of what they might judge next time.
However if you are showing, you are expected to be correctly turned out for the class. No one is suggesting a different bridle for each day of the week, just to have one appropriate for the class you are entering. And of course, if you don't have the correct turn out, then not to be surprised if you do not place highly. I think it has been helpful for people to advise on the potential reasons for the low placing, instead of just cursing the judge. There is nothing wrong with constructive feed back
And on that point, I totally 100% agree that it is fantastic when judges have/take the time to give the individual a quick run down on why they were placed where they were, and Id hope in this situation it may have prevented the ops feelings of being incorrectly judged. However Id imagine it would be quite hard to in effect " criticise" someone who has put their pride and joy on display, but I guess thats a skill good judges learn, how to be constructive
Op did later elude that the class seems to be a combination class, of hunters and riding horses, so the bridle may not have been such an issue after all, and could be why lighter horses were placed higher. Is a funny combination of classes though!
And on that point, I totally 100% agree that it is fantastic when judges have/take the time to give the individual a quick run down on why they were placed where they were, and Id hope in this situation it may have prevented the ops feelings of being incorrectly judged. However Id imagine it would be quite hard to in effect " criticise" someone who has put their pride and joy on display, but I guess thats a skill good judges learn, how to be constructive
Op did later elude that the class seems to be a combination class, of hunters and riding horses, so the bridle may not have been such an issue after all, and could be why lighter horses were placed higher. Is a funny combination of classes though!
Last edited:
I am really sorry to say but he is not a hunter type, and I show hunters at county lightweights and Heavyweight.. The reason you would have been placed last as he is not a hunter type and even if 1st,2nd,3rd did a bad show they would have been placed higher for being more of a hunter stamp than you boy.. You boy is lovely
He's a show hunter pony! Completely different to a heavyweight or lightweight horse! Lol
However if you are showing, you are expected to be correctly turned out for the class. No one is suggesting a different bridle for each day of the week, just to have one appropriate for the class you are entering. And of course, if you don't have the correct turn out, then not to be surprised if you do not place highly. I think it has been helpful for people to advise on the potential reasons for the low placing, instead of just cursing the judge. There is nothing wrong with constructive feed back /QUOTE]
Sorry alainax, I hadn't meant to sound sarky (late night). Sometimes being called an amateur sounds like an insult but I'm sure that isn't what was meant. You are right of course that in showing it is all important, and everyone's feedback is correct. I just find the 'fashion' frustrating sometimes. I should be able to hang baubles off my horses ears, its still a hunter but id like the judge to say 'i placed you last because baubles are not correct turnout for a hunter'.
/QUOTE]Sorry alainax, I hadn't meant to sound sarky (late night). Sometimes being called an amateur sounds like an insult but I'm sure that isn't what was meant. You are right of course that in showing it is all important, and everyone's feedback is correct. I just find the 'fashion' frustrating sometimes. I should be able to hang baubles off my horses ears, its still a hunter but id like the judge to say 'i placed you last because baubles are not correct turnout for a hunter'.
Girl from the farm down the road has a lovely connie that hunts every winter. A month ago she took him to a local (but big, qualifier for major shows) show in the working hunter class. He jumped clear, on of about 6, so enough to make up all the placings. However, the judges sister was riding in the class. Her horse cat-leaped the entire course, had a couple of them down but still got called back to give an individual show. Anybody guess who won the class? Nothing like keeping it in the family.
If the judges sister was in the class the judge herself shouldn't have let her enter! And if this is true someone should have gone to the secretary and kicked up a fuss!
To me being an amateur and being amateurish are two different things. A plain noseband and browband suitable for local showing can be got for less than twenty quid
If someone has told the OP that the pony would make a good SHP then those are the classes to go for but a SHP is supposed to be a scaled down hunter so im not sure how wise that persons advice was Tbh
Too many people are thinking because a pony isnt a native or a show pony that a SHP class would be correct but there is a definite type to a correct SHP
The pony looks super and really useful, it may get away with being a nice working hunter pony at local level in future but i would be aiming it at the Riding Club pony/horse classes personally (again a Riding Horse is a very different animal so the 'club' is the important word there!)
As a hunter in a horse class and incorrectly turned out this was doomed to fail but dont let it put you off OP your pony looks lovely and will have its day
If someone has told the OP that the pony would make a good SHP then those are the classes to go for but a SHP is supposed to be a scaled down hunter so im not sure how wise that persons advice was Tbh
Too many people are thinking because a pony isnt a native or a show pony that a SHP class would be correct but there is a definite type to a correct SHP
The pony looks super and really useful, it may get away with being a nice working hunter pony at local level in future but i would be aiming it at the Riding Club pony/horse classes personally (again a Riding Horse is a very different animal so the 'club' is the important word there!)
As a hunter in a horse class and incorrectly turned out this was doomed to fail but dont let it put you off OP your pony looks lovely and will have its day