Showing - messing up your individual show but winning?

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Switchthehorse

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Just a simple question, I entered a showing class this weekend and the man that won completely messed up his individual show - horse bucked three times and struck off on the wrong canter lead twice. The judge said afterwards that despite this it was obvious his horse had been proffessionally produced and so had the 'finesse' that others didnt.

Everyone else who was placed managed to canter on the right leg AND not buck!!

Is it me or is that crazy? I don't know the first thing about showing but surely if you buck and can't get the correct canter lead whether you have been proffessionally produced or not you surely shouldnt win!!??

Not that i am bitter or anything :)

Opinions gratefully received!!
 
Does sound very strange. If the horse had been professionally produced, I would have expected better manners and schooling.

If the horses had not got the wrong canter lead and not bucked, would you have been happy for it to have won? (just curious, because a beautiful horse can have an off-day.)
 
Well .. .trying not to be a bad loser :) the class was a hunter class and the horse looked like a show hack so probably not!!! The judge was gushing that he was an 'absolute stunner' etc etc. But then maybe i am just bitter :) and like i say i know NOTHING about showing!! it was our first and very mediocre attempt!!
 
If the horse was not 'true to type', and went badly, then I probably would have been disappointed as well. Put that judge in your 'black book' and try another show.
 
i too would be peeved off, but this is why im not a fan of showing - its so subjective - either the judge and man were connected or judge really didnt have a clue!
 
I have had to question some shows I have been to as well, a horse rearing, taking out some small shetlands. M and M not true to type, but coming first. You really have to question some of these judges.
 
OK was it working hunter? did you jump clear? were the other horses any good (to show standard) i dont mean this to sound offensive to you or other competitors but maybe he picked the best of a bunch that were not to show standard
 
The first time I showed my mare in hand she took off and I went grass skiing for some distance :o but we were still placed first and went on to win the championship. There were about 9 in the class and although I think the rest were very peeved with us the judge spoke to me at the end and said she thought mine looked like a proper sports horse while some of the others were obviously unfit, one was lame and the others were cob types so I guess she didn't think they should have been in that class - maybe they shouldnt I'm still not quite sure what defines a sports horse in showing terms!
 
So it was a ridden hunter, the one that won was a hack pure and simple, the judge definitely saw the crappy individual show as she even commented on it when awarding the rosette!! the second and third were true hunter types, fourth was a show pony, fifth was a hunter, sixth, seventh and eighth were cobs and ninth and tenth were riding horses in my very unproffessional opinion!! the one in fourth was clearly lame, the one in sixth didnt canter!! So as you can see it was a very high quality show :)

I am trying to decide whether to carry on, not cos i didnt win of course (and of course i think we should have done but i am biased!!!) but mainly because i wasnt sure that it was normal that you could mess up so badly but just because your horse had make up on and quarter marks (apparently that added to the finesse) that that was enough to make you win!!?

Must buy copious make up and learn how to do quarter marks if this showing lark is to continue!!
 
Have seen a lot of this on the professional show circuit and if its a well known producer the judges give them the benefit of the doubt. Its not fair but happens a lot.


What really gets my goat is the ponies which are lunged and ridden by lightweight adults before a child is put in and sent into the ring. Even if it misbehaves it is still put into the lineup. If I was the judge I would put a less
correct pony up if it had behaved well.Manners should be rewarded and after all safety is paramount with children.
 
Hmm - very odd!! My daughter was in a similar situation a few weeks ago in an ex-racehorse class except she was the wrong legger!! Ours struck off on the wrong leg twice (was instantly corrected), daughter then decided the only thing she could do was to pull out a massive gallop - which she did and horse was foot perfect and very responsive.

There were three in the class and ours was pulled first. 2nd was a nice horse and went well, 3rd not so nice horse and didn't go well. We were VERY surprised to say the least. The judge said to her that it was her gallop that won it and that he couldn't fault our horse conformation wise. He was an eventing man apparently so maybe that explains him looking for a good gallop. He then went foot perfect in the Championship and took that (same judge) and then took Supreme (4 judges in that one).

I think if a judge really loves a horse he will forgive it a 'blip' in it's show. I have to say if I had been judging my daughter's class I would have pulled her second. And NO we didn't know the judge :)
 
Local showing is an interesting experience, and that sounds like a particularly interesting one.

The thing some people forget is that showing isn't a dressage test. It's a balance of manners, presense and conformation and sometimes horses that make a small mistake get placed above those who don't, because the other catagories were quite a bit higher.

And sometimes you just don't understand at all, and can't reason it.

If you do decide to continue, you need to be able to shrug those days off, accept that's showing and move onto the next show. It's become part of the sport these days.
 
This is why I find showing all a bit iffy. Its great when a judge likes you but if they don't... End of the day its very subjective so you may be lucky some days etc...

I witnessed a showing class that my sharer was in. It was riding horse or something. Our TB got pulled up 3rd. The TB that won firstly came in late, napped at the gate (mini rears) every time he got there, the rider had a leadrope clipped to her saddle, and her ridden show did not have any canter - just a quick trot on each rein. Plus it completely bent the wrong way - like an upside down banana.

The same judge placed me right down the bottom of the line in our class. Firstly she told me she wouldn't bother looking at my horse as she'd seen him before. She then placed 2 obese ponies right up the line, who's children were pony-club kicking them in an attempt to make them canter...which failed.

I'm not bitter at all :)
 
I also just remembered that my nag was a bit fidgety in the line up so when i got pulled out for the individual assessment and show the judge said to me 'he is a bit fidgety so i won't assess you if you want, you can just do your show'!!!??? Maybe if we had been assessed she would have noticed some 'hidden' finesse? Not that there was any with 4ft whiskers and a big yellow poo stain :)
 
A minor blip executed by an otherwise faultless animal will always be placed higher up the line than the less than great examples in the class. But something that is not true to class type, and performed as badly as you say should be bumped right down the line.

This is why I don't do local showing but if people just put it down to "local showing" then the problem will never be sorted.
 
Local showing is where most people start. It's good for giving baby horses their first ring experiences. It is also highly subjective as all showing is.
If you want to show your horse, then accept that showing is subjective.
It is even subjective at HOYS. It all boils down to the judges opinion, which is based on their experience. It's just that further up the ladder, judges generally have more experience so give more precise reasons for their reasons (or that's how it's supposed to go)

Even dressage is subjective - one judge might give a 6 for a movement and another might give a 7.....

So you just have to accept that it is simply somebody's opinion on the day. It is frustrating when they don't 'see' mistakes, or have a differing opinion of the seriousness of the error, but's that's showing.
 
Mine won the coloured in hand class at a big local show last year and in this year's class was marked down because of blemishes on her hind leg- she had the same blemishes last year!
I also think that who you are and who you know can make a difference to how judges view you and your horse.
As long as you both enjoy the outings I reckon it's fine, although it does get a bit galling sometimes!
 
I've only ever done one showing class and it was in hand open pony class at an open show and was an Equestrian Life qualifier (I didn't have a card, was in it for "fun"). I know from measuring her that my mare was right up to the height limit for the class and we came second which was great. The pony that won was lovely and very deserving but definitely taller than my mare. She qualified for EL but I did wonder whether the pony's height would be questioned.
 
This is the reason I hate showing I had a welsh sec a on loan who had come third at one of the big shows not while I had him I took him into a local show just for me to get a feel never done in hand before. He was imacualty turned out and was a star.
Judge placed him last, horse that won reared about 5 times and another above him and sh@ t stains all over the White on his legs and had straw in his mane and tail :(
I asked the judge at the end for comments because I thought I must have done something very wrong judges comment was the stallion will win every time and I jut don't like them skinny ponys he has good conformation and movement but just not my cup of tea :(
I also had a welsh sec b who was being ridden by one of the kids on the yard the first class she Rose him perfect he won :) second class just went to pieces he became hollow, struck off on wrong canter lead and generally was not listening to her. He did not desser e to be placed due to other ponies in class doing a better show and also having good conformation etc my pony won
I spoke to judge after class to ask for critisim as I was baffled that he won, judges response was she really liked him had placed him first earlier and knew in this class what he was really capable of:(
Am afraid them to put me off totally
 
We've done a couple of showing classes this season, I haven't shown properly for over 20 years and nothing has changed! If the judge likes your horse, they like your horse, end of!
At one show this year, they combined the inhand and ridden veteren class (God knows why, there was loads in each), very nice inhand came first, most deserved imho, but, the one that came second was ridden but the rider refused to canter and only did a small amount of trot in the individual show. I heard her say to the steward she wouldn't be cantering as the horse 'wasn't up to it'! Surely the whole point of ridden veteren is that the horse is in good condition for it's age and cane manage what is expected of a ridden veteren (walk, trot and canter!). If not, show it in hand! My lad came third, grumble grumble!
At our County Show, a few years ago, my friend's horse jumped the only clear in a WH class. To be fair, she not a 'classic' hunter, sports horse type, but she does hunt 5 or 6 times a season. She was the only horse not called back in for the individual show! The winner refused twice, had 2 fences down and rarely even hacks out let alone hunt (I know the owner).
YO shows Shetlands and it's quite well known that certain studs and 'names' will win everything under certain judges.
There's also been times when I've been shocked that Markie has done well, he likes to take a real strong hold in the canter 'go round' instead of sedately going round like a veteren cob, but some judges just 'like' him!
 
I was at quite a big agricultural show at the weekend and watched the novice riding horses. Obviously I'd expect a little more lea way for novices, but the one that won did some massive bucks and even came to a standstill in the extended canter it was bucking so hard. It didn't appear to give the judge a good ride BUT it was beautiful and so it won. I have to say I was surprised! Manners and way of going obviously aren't too important any more!
 
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