Showing & whiskers etc

[Karenchol]

The photo on the front cover of H&H this week is of a supreme showing pony. This pony is devoid of whiskers, has greased eyes and nostrils (in this heat?!) and has a VERY tight noseband. So tight in fact that the hair is over it and you’d never get even a little finger beneath it. This noseband is crushing all the sensitive facial nerves each side of the nose bone, therefore this pony must be in some discomfort. In the light of many of these issues being brought to the forefront and discussed at length, how is this ok? I recently stood on the side line of a county showing class. Some non horsey people standing next me remarked, “that horse must be very uncomfortable with it’s head pulled in like that”. The rigid expression on its face said it all.
Surely it’s time accolades were given for relaxed, comfortable horse/ponies that maybe not have their chins tucked into their chests, (Rollkur) but move more freely and are not over bitted and tortured by tight tack. It is no wonder all the anti this and that gang are out in force.

 

[Nasicus]

For context, is it this one?
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/publication/horse-and-hound-magazine/horse-hound-4-august-2022

 

[Birker2020]

deleted

 

[Jenko109]

I dont know that that picture is sharp enough to determine how tight the nose and is or if the animal has whiskers

 

[dreamcometrue]

I have seen other photos of this pony on the day and can assure you that the rider has light hands and the noseband is not too tight. This pony has the very best care and management, which is why she won ? x

 

[Tiddlypom]

This is a crop of the front cover pic in this week's H&H mag.

Tbh, whilst I detest showing with a vengeance I've seen a lot worse. The Vaseline effect is just naff and there are no whiskers to be see. But the curb chain, throat latch and brow band are loose. The cavesson does seem a tad tight and high.

But IMHO overall a pleasant enough picture and a good partnership. I wouldn't be taking pot shots at this combination.


https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/pub...3.1617570680.1606215138-2023891021.1606215138

 

[Cortez]

I'd be far, far more worried about how fat it is and the fact it's behind the bit (not rollkür BTW), hollow in the back and on the forehand. Bridle fits OK.

 

[Tiddlypom]

By showing standards that pony is running lean

 

[Chianti]

Surely the cavesson isn't right? It looks too high and too tight- two fingers isn't it? I thought they'd changed the rules so you couldn't clip whiskers? Looks like its ears have been trimmed as well. It's behind the vertical. I know it's only one photo but it doesn't look thrilled with life.

 

[Gloi]

I don't think there's any reason to pick on this particular pony over any other other than it being on the cover of H&H. The standards that encourage shaved ears and whiskers in show pony turnout are the problem.

 

[blitznbobs]

Tbh this whole thread feels like nit
picking and possibly sour grapes

 

[Cortez]

Tbh this whole thread feels like nit
picking and possibly sour grapes

Which is kinda showing in a nutshell

 

[Karenchol]

For context, is it this one?
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/publication/horse-and-hound-magazine/horse-hound-4-august-2022

Yes

 

[stangs]

Tbh this whole thread feels like nit
picking and possibly sour grapes

It's not exactly nitpicking to be commenting on the fact that one of the biggest equestrian magazines continues to use photos that aren't exactly ideal in terms of promoting horse welfare.

 

[Karenchol]

Which is kinda showing in a nutshell

No Sour grapes. I have nothing to do with showing. I am just stating what I can see on the photo and a strangers opinion (I overheard) whilst watching a showing class. I compete in different areas and I have had horses all my life.

 

[Karenchol]

It's not exactly nitpicking to be commenting on the fact that one of the biggest equestrian magazines continues to use photos that aren't exactly ideal in terms of promoting horse welfare.

Thank you.

 

[Karenchol]

I have seen other photos of this pony on the day and can assure you that the rider has light hands and the noseband is not too tight. This pony has the very best care and management, which is why she won ? x

I am sure it does, it looks immaculately turned out, but for the reasons I stated I think a few things need to be looked in general, not just this person. Tack that tight should not be acceptable anywhere. This is not about this person, it is about everyone. We need to consider whether we are inflicted discomfort on our animals.

 

[Karenchol]

I don't think there's any reason to pick on this particular pony over any other other than it being on the cover of H&H. The standards that encourage shaved ears and whiskers in show pony turnout are the problem.

This what I am highlighting, this is from a welfare point of view, not about this person in particular.

 

[Cortez]

I am sure it does, it looks immaculately turned out, but for the reasons I stated I think a few things need to be looked in general, not just this person. Tack that tight should not be acceptable anywhere. This is not about this person, it is about everyone. We need to consider whether we are inflicted discomfort on our animals.

The bridle doesn't look tight, unless you have had the opportunity to feel under the noseband?

 

[SantaVera]

Write a letter to H and H about the concerns it might appear on the letter page and promote discussion. Also the show committee.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

If you flick to the Gatcombe page on H&H you will find all of the horses eventing on there to have overly tight grackles and various bit combinations.

So would this be allowable because it eventing? Or do we ignore it because a picture is a moment in time and "everyone loves eventing".

 

[Tiddlypom]

Looking again at the full photos in H&H, the mare is barefoot all round. That is surely unusual and most welcome in ridden showing at the top level.

 

[ponynutz]

Have seen a lot worse! Not great, showing world isn't but I wouldn't say H&H are promoting anything particularly distressing - I'd say they're possibly promoting the best of what they saw on that day. As a horse magazine they can't just not include a whole discipline because it has slightly questionable ideas.

I'd also be slightly careful - very possible rider or someone who knows rider is on this forum and imagine this thread would be quite upsetting given she's not actually doing anything wrong.

 

[Chianti]

Have seen a lot worse! Not great, showing world isn't but I wouldn't say H&H are promoting anything particularly distressing - I'd say they're possibly promoting the best of what they saw on that day. As a horse magazine they can't just not include a whole discipline because it has slightly questionable ideas.

I'd also be slightly careful - very possible rider or someone who knows rider is on this forum and imagine this thread would be quite upsetting given she's not actually doing anything wrong.

I don't think anyone would wish to deliberately hurt someone's feelings but if you put yourself and your pony in a very big show then you can't complain if people comment on what they can see. I have no idea if tack is checked at big shows, if it isn't then perhaps it should be. I see no good reason why a pony's whiskers would be shaved off and the same done to its ears. We know that horses and ponies need these. Why do those who show still do it? If every competitor turned up with untouched faces what would judges do? We have to accept that any competitive use of horses is now being questioned both within the horse world and outside it.

 

[ponynutz]

I don't think anyone would wish to deliberately hurt someone's feelings but if you put yourself and your pony in a very big show then you can't complain if people comment on what they can see. I have no idea if tack is checked at big shows, if it isn't then perhaps it should be. I see no good reason why a pony's whiskers would be shaved off and the same done to its ears. We know that horses and ponies need these. Why do those who show still do it? If every competitor turned up with untouched faces what would judges do? We have to accept that any competitive use of horses is now being questioned both within the horse world and outside it.

I guess so.
I understand that and am completely behind it - I was in the showing world for a while and am not it's biggest fan but this post was particularly about H&H using the image. I can understand why they support all disciplines to appeal to the widest array of readers.

 

[Leandy]

I don't think anyone who was not there to have direct knowledge of what they are speculating about should be criticising specific individual pictures directly (including using emotive terms such as rollkur - which this is not), especially when the picture happens to involve a child. Many people will find this a very attractive image.

 

[Karenchol]

If you flick to the Gatcombe page on H&H you will find all of the horses eventing on there to have overly tight grackles and various bit combinations.

So would this be allowable because it eventing? Or do we ignore it because a picture is a moment in time and "everyone loves eventing".

This is my point. I’m not just picking on this poor girl, it applies to all horse owners/riders. We should all be pulled up on our tack if it is unnecessarily tight or we are using harsh gadgets/bits. Often these gadgets are in the hands of people who do not know as much as others. Then you get harsh hands with harsh gadgets, that is a welfare issue in my eyes.

 

[stangs]

Many people will find this a very attractive image.

And therein lies the problem.

 

[Karenchol]

I don't think anyone who was not there to have direct knowledge of what they are speculating about should be criticising specific individual pictures directly (including using emotive terms such as rollkur - which this is not), especially when the picture happens to involve a child. Many people will find this a very attractive image.

I was just trying to emphasise that H&H have highlighted all of these issues in the past. Rollkur, bad bit fitting/tight tack and the whisker removal ban etc etc. Yet still people do these things. In prominent places too.

 

[Karenchol]

And therein lies the problem.

It is an attractive image. I just wonder why whisker removal and greasing up (especially in hot weather liked we have been having) is still allowed in the show ring.