Showing

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BobbyMondeo

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I took my horse to our first show yesterday, he was really good and all went well (very surprised and happy) I was however upset that we didnt get placed and some horses that in my opinion were not being ridden correctly and were grosely overweight did.

Never really been into showing so dont know wether this is the norm? The judges also seemed to be colour biased ie the first 6 places were bay and all the chestnuts in the class were placed at the back , is this normal at most shows? I have to say i dont think ill be showing again.
 
This is why I don't show I'm afraid. My mare is clearly the most beautiful in all the world but not everyone sees this!!! Judges often mix personal preference (for colour, the owner or rider, or sometimes with no apparent thought at all!) with conformation / turn out etc when judging. It would make me grumpy to see poorly put together horses of one colour placed above better horses just becuase of the preference or whim of a judge. Is sadly one of those things. You need to either get to know judges preferences on the circuit and work to emulate what they look for, or take it on this chin and accept that you may not be placed as highly as you would hope.
 
Showing is at the end of the day an art that takes years to get right. I have been very lucky to have some fantastic show horses in my time and I have had two heavyweight hunters that had similar success at HOYS level (One won the RIHS and the other won HOYS) they are like chalk and cheese even though they compete in the same section (Heavyweight Ridden Hunter) one is Irish draught the other is Hanno and the judges were equally split. Judges who liked one loathed the other and visa versa.. Judges have a preference there is not a formula that makes a show horse it is the whole picture and taste is a huge part of that.

Two men judging miss world may very well not go for the same woman one may like blondes the other redheads it is the same thing.
 
Unfortunately, this does seem to be a thing with the showing world. I think I've been quite lucky, have taken my boy to 2 shows and done in hand showing with him. The first judge was lovely and seemed the really take each horse in turn, not favourites or such. My second show, the judge appeared to have something against hairies (we were all at the bottom!!) and always seems to put the plaiteds first in the intial line up, but after the individual show, the order tended to change quite a lot and she did pay attention to their movement etc. (she shot me up to 2nd :D).

However, went to a show yesterday to help a friend, and she did a ridden showing class on her section C along with one other ridder. D is 6, this other horse was 16. Anyways, firstly the judge was giving all the directions for transitions, which isn't the norm and threw my friend off as she was watching the steward for when she needed to change. The judge also only seemed to make it clear to the first horse and not to the second (her) so was quite confusing. The other horse also threw a paddy in one of the corners, bunny hoping and threatening to rear, so my friend circled away and D was very calm (unusual for him lol!!) and yet she still came second. Judge also told her that she didn't gallop. Well I was sat on the side line and I sure as hell saw and felt it lol.

We didn't hold much hope before the class anyways, as the novice class before also only had 2 horses in, and the one that won was wearing a pelham and cantered and galloped on the wrong leg the whole way round!!

I'm hoping to go to the Somerton show at the end of July and I've been told that the judging there can be awful so we'll see how we go...
 
But the people who won were delighted with the judge and how expert they were! If you go into a showing class you can onnly go along with the judge's opinion on that day, and what the judge saw.

One of my young horses bucked like mad when I was cantering round the ring, but the judge was always looking at another horse at the time. By the time he got on the horse had calmed down, and we were well placed.

The one thing that can be annoying is if the judge doesn't stick to the breed standard when judging a class of a particular breed, but other than that, it is always just what that judge prefers on the day.

I went to a big show at the weekend and thought that ALL horses and ponies should go to shows from a young age. There is just so much going on and they get to accept so much that a horse just growing up in afield is never going to come across.
 
I know the judge is entiteled to their opinion i am more questioning the fact that overwieght horses won the class when horse obeisty is a big problem in this country. Also dont think the colour should have any bearing on wether one horse is better than the other.

I am not bitter that i didnt get placed just that i dont think that obese horses should win these sorts of things it sends out a really bad message
 
judges are gettibng harsh on weight now at county shows and one smaller one they have all said something about my youngster being overweight and she has been placed down to 2nd because of it.
 
Showing can be like that, i was at a local show last year, won cob, took ring champion, then in a diff ring was in ridden showing and the first 4 placed where arabs and only 1 of them was anygood, and i realy mean like the other 3 where horrific! and i got 5th... my mum knows people involved with running these shows and apparently they were not ever havin him back to judge as he was doing a terrible job all day lol! At local level sometimes you will be judged by county judges who know what they are on about and every now and then you will get somebody who has no clue!

At a farm i was on to ladies there did judgeing, one of them was good with horses and was experienced with a variety of types of horses and im assuming she would be a good judge. The other didnt know breed standards, what horses other then section d's should look and move like, she did one show all year and nobody else would have her haha!

By overweight im not sure what you mean, i see some cobs and people say they are fat and they are in fact muscular and then i see some and it makes me want to call the RSPCA. Also some hunters you see look like they would struggle to trot tbh, but show horse should have a decent covering compared to eventing horses ect.. but they shouldnt have fat deposits and things
 
It is just the opinion of the judge at the end of the day. Sometimes everyone else thinks there is a clear winner except for the judge, but that is part of it.
I think that you should not be too competitive if you show as you could be very disappointed. I just do it for fun and if i win, that is just a bonus!
 
ilovecobs said:
By overweight im not sure what you mean, i see some cobs and people say they are fat and they are in fact muscular and then i see some and it makes me want to call the RSPCA. Also some hunters you see look like they would struggle to trot tbh, but show horse should have a decent covering compared to eventing horses ect.. but they shouldnt have fat deposits and things
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Im not talking muscle im talking huge heart shaped bums fatty deposits on the shoulders and behind the saddle and celulite
 
My boy will be showing in a few weeks, he is overweight but only because of time off work due to lameness, so perhaps best not to judge everyone the same. He is on limited food, worked everyday but its hard to shift!
 
JessPickle said:
My boy will be showing in a few weeks, he is overweight but only because of time off work due to lameness, so perhaps best not to judge everyone the same. He is on limited food, worked everyday but its hard to shift!
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I know it is hard to shift. I dont think this is coming off the right way. I just dont agree with the image that these horses winning portrays. And they werent just a little porky they were HUGE
 
Maybe on the day the bay horses were better than the chestnuts.......

......and maybe the first place horse was overweight and the judge noticed it and mentioned it to the rider but still thought when weighing all things up that the horse was the best in the class.

I hate the fact that people are so quick to shout bias about show judges. There are lots of things to consider and it can be a very tough call - which do you give priority to, movement, conformation, manners, looks, presentation, riding???? What if there is a horse which if stood still looks perfect but when you see it move the riding and schooling is so awful it looks barely sound? Do you place it above or below a beautifully ridden well schooled horse with nice movement that has less good conformation??

I think show judging must be very difficult, especially for type classes rather than breed classes as there is much more range in the class to weigh up. I know a couple of people who are training as affiliated judges at the moment and they really are given a lot of testing before they are let loose.
 
Obesity is an issue in the showring, but put yourself in a judges shoes. How far do you drop a horse for obesity? Do you drop a well behaved horse below one that was naughty? Do you drop something with good confo below something that looks like 4 different horses taped together?

I'm judging the fun classes at a local show in a few weeks. I am debating how on earth to work the drop placings for obesity thing. I agree with it in principal, but take for example one of the classes, family pony. I have a gut feeling I'll find a few fatties in this class. Do I drop the best most obedient pony in the class down below one that's not such a suitable pony for the family because it's fat?

Believe me, I've only judged once before but it was enough to give me so much respect for judges. It is much, much harder than it appears.

ETA: Oh, and it is possible the colour thing could have been a coincidence, particularly with bays at the top when bay is the predominant colour in horses. Can't be sure, but you can't be sure of colour placing either. What the judge sees when close up is often hidden to the audience/other riders.

And to echo others. I've been top of the line up and bottom with the same pony against the same ponies. That's showing for you.
 
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Its the message that this gives out not the judge in person that i am annoyed about, not even annoyed i didnt get placed just wanted to know if this is common in the showing world that is all there is no need to jump down my throat about it.

It is hard to get accross what you mean on the internet
 
I know what you're saying.

I had the other problem. I did in hand veteran with my mare the other day. The judge asked what she's been doing. I told her very clearly that she hadn't been worked all winter, lived out 24/7 (but she was clipped and rugged), and had just started walking work a couple of weeks previous to the show. She placed us last out of 9, which was fine as I didn't expect anything, due to not having done any work etc. However, the judge put an absolute bag of bones 3rd, who had no muscle or covering of any kind (we're talking hip bones sticking out, sunken hind quarters), so I asked why we had come last. She told me that it was because my mare had a bit of a grass belly, and not much muscle.

duh. So would anyone not working since the start of November last year. But at least she didn't look starved! And the obese 16 year old in 2nd didn't seem to matter!!!!

However, my mare is palomino, and find that many judges don't like that. And judges in the past have stated this to me (I was showing a bay at that time!), saying that its just not an 'attractive' enough colour.

wtf!!!!!! Ah well, I still had a lot of fun with my girlie, sharing ice creams and hamburgers for the day lol!!!!!!!!!!!

ETA she told me my mare had good conformation and moved nicely, so I struggled to see why the grass belly mattered quite so much. As far as I know, its all about conformation, movement, breed standards, suitability and manners, as well as condition.
 
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Thanks tennessee, its so hard to make it clear what you mean on a forum! Annother thing that annoyed me about this particular judge was that the only thing she asked me was how old he was. Normally i though judges said more than that to you to get a clearer picture? Ah well it was a really fun day anyhow and he was SUCH a good boy!
 
dominobrown said:
To be honest everyone thinks that their horse is the best, you need to be very self critical of you and your horse.
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I dont think that my horse was the best there on the day actually! He was a good boy and went round nicely but no i dont think he had the nicest movement in the class. What annoyed me was that horses that were VERY overweight were placed above horses that wernt and imo moved better, were ridden better and generally looked happier
 
I have a veteran middleweight hunter (23)

In all the years he has been shown he is very rarely beaten - and this is affiliated classes not local shows.

From two shows this year - each with an entry in only one class - he has won his class and taken the championship at each

It is nothing to do with colour - it is quality, manners, turnout etc

For the record my horse is bright chestnut ! :D
 
I have taken my little 4yr old out to some local shows recently in preperation for BYEH. The judging has been very inconsistant (ranging from 1st to last - literally!). Ususally a ridden coloured class.

The very first class we entered into we had a few bucks and went on the wrong canter lead and generally were pretty bad! But the horse has v.good conformation and trots up beautifully and has very impressive paces (when all 4 legs are on the floor!!!). We came 2nd - the judge said that she forgave the bucks / canter as she was only 4 and she was in 'lovely fit condition'.

In another class, we behaved perfectly - but pulled in last - allongside all of the other plaited coloureds. After a lovely show a few of the plaiteds moved up - we remained at the bottom. I asked how we could improve - judge said that it was because of her 'weight issue'. I enquired as I was unaware we had a 'weight issue'. I was told in no uncertain terms that she was too skinny and looked 'like a cruelty case'!!!!! Well, for one, the judge last week commented on how her condition was good and refershing from overfed beasts!

Now, my horses are not fat (pet hate); they are fit young eventers. I know a show condition is different from event fit but I was taking baby out to give her a bit of showring experience and (shock!) have some fun! Unfortuanatly when you enter a show you know that the 'judges decision is final' - wether you agree with it or not! It is purely opinion. And we all have to accept it no matter how different it is from out own.
 
but they may be in process of loosing weight! nobody knows the full story! This is Pickle today, he is worked everyday, on grass no hay, with tiny feed just so he gets his supplements for his anemia. Was off work for 6 months and has been back in full work for about a month and been back in work for 3 months. I don't mean for him to be overweight, and perhaps if you didn't know his story he'd be classed as an overfed hunter!

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I've judged at local and county level... My breed is Welsh Ds but at local level I am often asked to judge everything from arabs to riding horses to M and Ms... It can be very difficult not to let personal preference come into the decision. I've often stood in the centre of a mixed M and M where there is a very correct fell and a really good section D. I have to discuss over and over with myself if I'm being biased towards the D just cos it's *my* breed. ANd then I have to judge a ring full of arabs which to be honest aren't my bag at all... I'm sure I've made some awful decisions -- probably choosing the ones that look least araby!

This is always going to be an issue at local shows cos you're not necessarily judging within your comfort zone.
 
Maybe then that's the problem. It may only be local showing, but the judge should still know what they are judging and know the criteria inside out. IMHO a m&m judge shouldn't really be judging arabs.

No offence intended, I know some judges get given a hard time......

Its just my opinion. I wouldn't ask a maths teacher to mark my childs english homework....
 
Tennessee said:
Maybe then that's the problem. It may only be local showing, but the judge should still know what they are judging and know the criteria inside out. IMHO a m&m judge shouldn't really be judging arabs.

No offence intended, I know some judges get given a hard time......

Its just my opinion. I wouldn't ask a maths teacher to mark my childs english homework....
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Couldn't agree more but then again, it's hard enough to get enough judges to judge at local shows so you can either have 'a' judge and a show or no show...

blitz
 
blitznbobs said:
Couldn't agree more but then again, it's hard enough to get enough judges to judge at local shows so you can either have 'a' judge and a show or no show...

blitz
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Very true. But I have to say, I for one, would rather be judged by someone who knows than someone who doesn't, otherwise there is little or no point to the show,other than to give an inexperienced horse an outing, which not everyone needs to do.

Oh I wish I had access to gymkhanas again lol!!!! (is 32 too old to do them??!!!) :D
 
I would love to be able to win a class at a show - but none of mine are good enough - So I don't show anymore and TBH I am much happier for it - I go hacking instead now.
 
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