Showjumping round table article in H & H this week.

[BBH]

Some interesting things being said but can't help feeling it was strange having a council of war to improve showjumping attendance without anyone present to represent the public. Why not ask the public why they have no interest in showjumping. These delegates are guessing why from their own perspectives. Reasons vary from riders being unskilled with the PR side of the job and some don't see it as their job anyway to lack of prize money and poor going at shows. Some of the rider stuff doesn't really equate to what will attract the public to shows in my view except perhaps if these areas were improved on maybe the top riders will stay here and compete. This year was the first year we didn't go to Windsor as there were no top riders there, just the usual suspect jobbing SJers which you could see at your local EC if you wished without the expense and hassle of getting to Windsor.

Some of it is too highfalutin and premature ie wanting people to buy into international riders and horses and shows when the public don't even recognise british riders and horses. Again talk was of top shows but really someones first introduction to SJing is likely to be some windy muddy field watching a friend with a polystyrene cold coffee on offer so these into places need to be more welcoming and comfortable. If your parents come and watch you compete in a class they don't want to wait 3hours in the cold to do so so surely timings have to be given. Once the interest is built in the spectator they visit bigger shows. I've been to many riding centres and not once have I seen a group excursion to XYZ offered. Make it easy for people.
Start building the smaller local interest and only then you may encourage wider national then international interest.

Some of it is very relevant in that competitons are too complicated.

Cumulative points/ leagues etc etc from shows don't have any relevance to people. You can't get excited about so and so needing only 2 points in an International Stairway if you haven't seen their performances in all the Stairway classes ie following them around the circuit. Classes currently are run for riders to understand and not for the public who visits a one off show.

If you don't know what the real reason is for public apathy and lack of interest you can't put it right or change it can you ? Just thought it would have been better if they had done some research to find out why people weren't attending and had then gotton together to discuss ways of remedying the findings.

Besides before worrying about the wider public I'd be wondering why we have millions of actual horse owners and amateur riders in this country yet so few of these have any interest in the National Sport, either following it or attending the shows. These are people who own / ride horses and if they can't be engaged it begs the question as to how non horse people will be. Windsor Europeans was a classic example of apathy as so few people attended the SJing and there was a huge thread on this at the time.

Anyone else read the article.

 

[PaddyMonty]

Anyone else read the article.

Haven't read it (dont read H&H) but will dig out OH's copy and have a nose.
Perhaps they could start by actually having some characters in the SJ world like we used to in the 60's and 70's.
Then scrap the silly idea of only wanting 10 in a jump off. With good prize money often going down to 15th place and so few fighting for it the excitement is lost as riders settle for soild placing rather than risk all. Get 25 in the jump off competing for 6 prizes and things will be far more fun for Mr/s Public

 

[BBH]

There may be characters in the sport today but we wouldn't know them because terrestrial tv hardly covers SJing and when it does its hidden away on some magic red button or a highlight snippet on BBC2 when everyone is at the pub for Sunday lunch or doing their own horse.

We don't just want characters but glamour . Where are the
' glamorous' SJer's for us ladies , all sports have their hero's afterall. The guys are much better catered for in the glamour stakes LOL.

I've just asked my neighbour what she thinks of SJing and she's said she doesn't have an interest in horses end of. Which makes sense in that if horses don't feature day to day on telly, in papers, etc they are not even on your radar. An uphill struggle I think but it will always be a minority sport cos A, its inacessable to most people and B too bloomin expensive for others to have much of a role in, whether that be as an owner or frequent show attender.

I agree with the prize money thing . a winner takes all grand prix would be great after all no-one remembers those who come second never mind 15th. TBH though competitions can be changed all you like but the first challenge is to get people through the doors in the first place. I always think it such a shame that shows are run in EC's up and down the country and the spectator stands are always empty, the sport seems very insular in that it runs itself for the existing membership and little is done to attract outside interest.

 

[Honeylight]

It was so popular when I was growing up & everyone watched it on TV, even people who didn't ride or have a lot of interest in horses. Competitions were on live from the Royal International & Horse of the Year shows & Hickstead.

What went wrong? I often wonder about sponsorship, obviously needed, but names like Sanyo Music Centre are hardly endearing to the general public. In the 1960s & 70s there were horses with real character like Vibart & Stroller & Pat Smythe's Flanagan, ordinary affordable horse that looked different to one another. The continental warm blood sport horses all look a bit similar & are simply beyond the reach of ordinary riders.

I remember hearing a TV producer say that Showjumping was the only sport he hated & of cause their is the question of perceived elitism. I have had abuse from people when I have been riding & people I work with think I am "posh" because I had a pony.

I think it will be difficult to ever get the same interest as in the 50s, 60s & 70s without the support of terrestrial TV.Of course if our team does well in the Olympics that might turn things round; the sport's popularity in the UK having been influenced by the team gold in the Helsinki Olympics.

 

[cptrayes]

It was so popular when I was growing up & everyone watched it on TV, even people who didn't ride or have a lot of interest in horses. Competitions were on live from the Royal International & Horse of the Year shows & Hickstead..

It must be impossible for younger people to imagine that when I was a teenager The Horse of the Year Show was on BBC1 every night after the nine o'clock news. It took over the entire schedule for a whole week.

I can still name the horses. I can't name one of the current lot. I wonder what happened along the way?

I've tried watching it these days but it bores me rigid seeing the same thing round after round

 

[Nollaig Shona]

I read part of the article, but didn't see anything in it that would make showjumping more appealing to the public. I used to watch showjumping avidly when I was a kid and could name every horse and rider combo on the circuit (well nearly all of them)

Nowadays I'd have a hard time naming more than three horses/riders. All the horses look the same, and all the riders ride in almost identical styles, to the point where if I miss the caption I have no idea who I'm watching, or what country they're from!

I seem to remember years ago there was talk of getting rid of the "dinner jacket, shirt and tie" dress code to make the riders look more 'athletic' as there was a perception that showjumping can't be that hard if they dress like James Bond (!) Maybe adding some colour to the proceedings my letting riders wear their own colours, or sponsors colours (and their national colours for international competitions) and *gasp* matchy matchy saddle cloths etc would help to distinguish one rider from another.

just my two cents, no need to shoot me!!

 

[Honeylight]

You are right HollyBough about all the horses looking the same, a point I was making in my post. All the Sporthorses of today have a generic quality. When I was growing up only really the Germans & Dutch rode those horses & all the different countries used their own breeds. Irish Draught types for the Irish team, the Australians on Waler types, the British on hunters that might have had Cleveland Bay, thoroughbreds & cobs & all sorts of odd ball horses that had real character & stayed in your memory. Now it's one bay or chesnut or grey European Warmblood after another, often wearing a silly hat on it's ears; no flies in the winter, do they wear ear plugs?
I have put it on TV on the rare occasions it's on & quickly become bored, it seems to have lost all personality & interest.

 

[humblepie]

Haven't read the above in huge detail but echo many of the comments - back in the day when HOYS, RIHS, even Great Yorkshire used to be on normal TV people watched show jumping and it had a following - I had non horsey friends who watched and it whose parents watched it, understood it, recognised people and enjoyed it.

If you look at the comments recently in competition riders about show jumping legends they are the horses from those days on the whole. I used to avidly follow show jumping and even now was one of the few people who went to the Europeans, but without TV coverage I recognise few of the riders and even fewer of the horses. Thankfully some of our potential Olympic horses have simple names such as Carlo, because I lose track when they are complicated names and they all blend into one.

It is rather like rallying - I used to follow rallying and go to the Rally GB but now it is only on ESPN and so haven't seen a rally car all year. Only know that Loeb won as saw it in the paper. I see that rallying is losing its biggest sponsor and that the WRC is at risk. Not surprising when it is so difficult (or expensive) to follow it.

 

[Spudlet]

It does seem odd to talk about why showjumping isn't popular when the people talking about it all like it. A bit of proper research would go a long way, so why is this not being invested in - not just for showjumping but for all the major horsesports?

I too couldn't name many showjumpers or horses, and the little that is on TV always seems so flat to me

 

[Nollaig Shona]

You are right HollyBough about all the horses looking the same, a point I was making in my post.

Sorry I missed that line in your post! Glad to know I'm not the only one who gets bored watching what looks like the same 4 horses going round

Irish Draught types for the Irish team

I remember the days when Eddie Macken bought a horse that wasn't Irish bred and they threatened to throw him off the team! Oh the scandal!!




A quick scan of the article brings up a point I missed at first glance, they're talking about having a really big 'feature' fence in the course. What for? What's the reasoning behind having a fence that spooks the horses and scares the riders?! It'll only take one horse panicking and paddling in mid-air and falling for a riot to ensue. Have they forgotten that they had to modify the puissance wall after Eddie Macken and Royal Lion had a horrible fall live on TV? (horse got stuck on top of the wall, which eventually collapsed and it looked like Royal Lion had broken his neck, but amazingly he hadn't) and indoor Derbys have disappeared after a fatal fall at the bank in one?

 

[BBH]

As awful as it sounds I think the whole thing needs a radical makeover.

Equestrian centres and showgrounds need to make a visit a more attractive, comfortable experience.

Good PR company needs to be employed to regenerate the sort of interest of years ago, people in the sport need to court the media and get equestrian sport a presence outside existing horse, country media.

I think a major problem is that riders work in isolation for their own benefit and living which is not wrong as they have to make a living but they need to be incentivised to work for the common good of the sport.

I think a big need is to max up the impression of SJer's. Even reading these forums shows how their image is tarnished by bad press stories, people being ripped off, etc etc. It seems like shafting people can be an occupational hazard rather than something best avoided. Fine for the short term but not for longer term custom.

Sensible horse names have been mentioned, some are totally unpronounceable and foreign and you can't bond with a name like this. If horses come with names like that use stable names.

People are far more likely to shout support from the stands for Erik than Torinto Van De Middelstede. By the time you've said that name he's finished his round and is on his way out the ring FGS.

I agree that TV coverage can be flat.

 

[JCWHITE]

An observation before I read the article in more detail.

Yesterdays leg of the Geneva Rolex was one of the most exciting jump offs for many a day.
The commentator on FEI TV was beside himself in excitement, and so were we, viewers in this house!
The Hall was packed with lots of young people from Clubs, who provided great vocal and visual support to their favourite riders,
If Europe can get it well, maybe not right, but better , then I think GB should take a leaf out of say, a National Federations book.
All I can say is that the French Federation would be somewhere to start, but in truth, cannot see that happening.

Looking forward to a great weeks jumping at Olympia, and hope mainstream TV coverage will appeal to a new wider audience.

 

[1life]

So much to agree with in all these posts. Luckily, I have Sky Sports (due to the footie fans in my houshold!) so I get to watch a lot of the horse shows too. However, I attended HOYS this year and I have to say, it was really flat . I doubt I will go next year, I will watch it on telly and fast-forward some parts.

I remember watching HOYS at home with my parents and seeing the fancy-dress - we all roared with laughter at some parts. What has happened to the showjumpers joining the carriage-drivers in a race, also?

I am going to Olympia at the end of the week and will see how the atmosphere is there and try to compare to HOYS...or assess what they are both lacking.

Totally agree though, ask the public, the audience, the people who have to come toenable the shows pay out the prize money!

 

[ester]

the last 'proper' show jumping I watched in RL was the grand prix at a pony premier show, 2nd round jump off they were at 1.50m and the course builder was overheard moaning that he couldn't really put them up any higher. The ponies and their jockeys were absolutely fab and a much more interesting jump off than some of what I have seen on the telly in the last few years. They all really pushed it to the limit.

I would agree that I would much rather see 25 horses jumping off rather than 10.

I do also think that atm if anyone has their own horses and a job they quite likely struggle to actually get out and see RL show jumping very often if at all.

 

[Moose-girl]

Haven't time to read all comments but if you couldn't find the show jumping at Olympia exciting, fabulous to watch, beautiful horses, hugely improved riding, then you;ve got no soul and should take up breeding guinea pigs. Ben Maher's round should be compulsory watching for every pony club show jumping wannabe (and most of the trainers) in the country. Loughview Lou Lou was fantastic. Cedric must be one of the most fun horses to be on the scene in years
Some of you really do need to get a life.

 

[Spudlet]

Haven't time to read all comments but if you couldn't find the show jumping at Olympia exciting, fabulous to watch, beautiful horses, hugely improved riding, then you;ve got no soul and should take up breeding guinea pigs. Ben Maher's round should be compulsory watching for every pony club show jumping wannabe (and most of the trainers) in the country. Loughview Lou Lou was fantastic. Cedric must be one of the most fun horses to be on the scene in years
Some of you really do need to get a life.

That's great.... if you have Sky or decent broadband speeds and could therefore actually watch the showjumping at Olympia...

 

[The Voice]

I had a horse compete at a showjumping class at Olympia which my wife and I bred and own. We would have loved to have watched it compete but the organizers wanted to charge us £60 each for passes which on top of the travel, food etc whould have come to around £200+ for the "Privilege " of watching our own horse compete. On top of all other costs there is no way we could have justified this cost to ourselves or the rider to purchase on our behalf, so we missed out.

In Hamburg the other year, as owners we got free passes, free food and drink and even free lifts to the shows as we stayed at the same hotel as many riders.

What incentives are there for people to support showjumping in the UK? Zero

 

[BBH]

What I don't understand is if the BBC have all the equipment and set up already there for the viewer on Red Button and highlights why do they restrict Mondays full evening to only those who have sky or pay for freeview ?

Seems they are cutting the audience even though they are already there. There may be a logical reason but I can't think of it.

 

[BBH]

I had a horse compete at a showjumping class at Olympia which my wife and I bred and own. We would have loved to have watched it compete but the organizers wanted to charge us £60 each for passes which on top of the travel, food etc whould have come to around £200+ for the "Privilege " of watching our own horse compete. On top of all other costs there is no way we could have justified this cost to ourselves or the rider to purchase on our behalf, so we missed out.

In Hamburg the other year, as owners we got free passes, free food and drink and even free lifts to the shows as we stayed at the same hotel as many riders.

What incentives are there for people to support showjumping in the UK? Zero

Without wishing to be cheeky and I fully understand your point that not enough is done for owners but I find it ironic that someone who can afford to have a top horse produced can't stump up £200 quid to see it compete at probably the best show of the year. To me it seems like the whole thing is so expensive whats another couple of hundred.

I'd be sure to be there, especially on a home bred horse, thats fantastic and not something that happens every day.

 

[The Voice]

Without wishing to be cheeky and I fully understand your point that not enough is done for owners but I find it ironic that someone who can afford to have a top horse produced can't stump up £200 quid to see it compete at probably the best show of the year. To me it seems like the whole thing is so expensive whats another couple of hundred.

I'd be sure to be there, especially on a home bred horse, thats fantastic and not something that happens every day.

Obviously you have more spare cash than me. The horse still competed and got placed whether I watched it or not. It would have been brilliant to see him go but ......

 

[Mince Pie]

That's great.... if you have Sky or decent broadband speeds and could therefore actually watch the showjumping at Olympia...

See that's funny, I was watching it on the beeb

 

[BBH]

See that's funny, I was watching it on the beeb

The terrestrial Beeb only has edited highlights, they showed the puissance and world cup on red button and the whole of Mondays performance on digital so all in all very little for anyone who doesn't have a full sky package.

 

[Spudlet]

See that's funny, I was watching it on the beeb

The terrestrial Beeb only has edited highlights, they showed the puissance and world cup on red button and the whole of Mondays performance on digital so all in all very little for anyone who doesn't have a full sky package.

Yep, what Holly said. Us Freeview plebs get virtually nothing. RUBBISH

 

[Nollaig Shona]

Haven't time to read all comments but if you couldn't find the show jumping at Olympia exciting

I did watch it, and I didn't find it half as much fun, or exciting as the "good old days". I kept laughing at the commentator making remarks about the horses "showing a bit of character there" as if it was a bad thing. Once upon a time that sort of thing was commonplace!

 

[Doncella]

Everyone contributing to this thread has made valid points. However, all of us are more or less in the loop either as owners, competitors, friends of the aforementioned or knowledgeable observers, not one of us is "Joe Public the last time I saw showjumping was when Harvey Smith stuck two fingers up and that was the best thing about it".
Identikit riders on identikit warmbloods with unpronouceable names do nothing to endear an indifferent public.
Although I compete I very rarely watch televised SJ because I find it so tedious.
The problem with the UK (which doesn't appear to affect SJ fans on the Continent) is the misplaced perception that horse ownership is elitist and class bound and this is a myth perpetuated by the BBC hence all the chav sports they insist on showing.
No solutions I'm afraid.

 

[Orangehorse]

I went to the HOY a year or two back and I could have strangled the commentator. Every competitor, especially in the Junior classes, was "the hugely talented Joe/Jill Bloggs ....."
I was turned off watching it live, let alone on TV.

I can remember when we all sat round the TV watching Harvey Smith, David Broome, Andrew Fielder, et al - but there wasn't much choice of TV. In those days show jumping was glamorous and all the nicely bred young ladies and gents wanted to show jump. Then they all turned to eventng instead and then dressage, leaving show jumping to anyone else. All the glamour and personality has gone out of it, and I think it started when horses were called after the sponsors. Now, I know that sponsors need to have their support recognised, but to have endless horses with a certain prefix just made everyone fall asleep, and it also made the BBC twitchy about advertising. I think it was a case of killling the Golden Goose. It gave support to the top riders, which in turn made it harder for new people to break into the rankings.

It used to be possible to make a sort of a living from show jumping, but can that be done now? The general public doesn't really care about show jumping any more, there are few horse personalities and the riders appear to to be the same all the time.

 

[Honeylight]

I hadn't thought about the BBC getting twitchy at horses called Sanyo Television, but it makes sense. Must say those names put me right off.
All the similar looking warmbloods have become rather dull too.

 

[eahotson]

I am old enough to remember Pat Smythe and then later Harvey Smith,the Broomes, the then young John and Michael Whitaker and of course horses like Milton and Ryans Son.I dreamed of being up there with them and thought they were amazing.Olympia was shown on BBC with top show jumping of course, but also the salute to the horse being read,shetland scurry and general fun things.Father Christmas always came of course.Fast forward and by accident really I aquired a very good jumping pony and had a rider for him for a while.I then saw the under belly of showjumping.NOT fun.In front of the stewards horses were whipped, kicked repeatedly in the belly by the dismounted jockey if the round wasn't good etc.One man nearly knocked his very young daughter off her feet he hit her so hard after she made a mistake in the ring.
I didn't really follow showjumping for a long time after that but recently went to the Charles Masters show in Cheshire.It was nice to have such good jumping locally but I for one, would have liked to buy a reserved seat and I would have liked the catering to be better.I was having a day out for goodness sake.
Watched Olympia on BBC and Eurosport this year.Highlights were Ben Maher and John Whitaker in the Ivy League (sp?)class.The Kur, for which all seats were sold never featured and not much else.I noticed that a lot of show jumpers were bringing relatively inexperienced horses at this level to compete on.I know it has to be done but at Olympia for goodness, the one oportunity they have to sell the sport to the wider public!! John Whitaker retired one horse as he?(she?) had jumped a good round and that had been enough.Good horsemanship yes, good showmanship at this level?

 

[SusannaF]

Moose Girl - yes, the individual competitions are great, but for the audience we need to reach there is no bigger narrative or characters that would persuade them to watch show after show after show all year round.

 

[millikins]

Like most of the other posters I am old enough to remember the "good old days"
I agree with many of the comments, with so many lookalike horses.
I think SJers need to take a look at their sport, at the last olympics there were more doping scandals in SJ than every other sport combined. That's a huge public turn off.
Their lack of ability/willingness to develop good PR skills is poor, imagine Frankie Dettorie or A.P. McCoy refusing to be interviewed unless paid! And talking of racing, all the jockeys at the Grand National meeting make sure they are seen at Liverpool's Children's Hospital, anyone spot any top SJers at Gt Ormond St? And most non-racing people could tell you who Kauto Star or Denman is. I'm babbling on about racing, but the authorities have made huge efforts in recent years to attract the public, perhaps SJ could learn from them.