Shut down and struggling or calm and competent?

[Paint Me Proud]

Some how ened up on this video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnCD-yN4aTQ that is of a Western Pleasure class in America.

From a very British perspective I found it hard to watch as their way of going is so alien to what we would consider correct. I'd go so far as to say to my eye the horses look lame, shut down and uncomfortable. Also the only way I realised they'd gone from walk to trot was because the announcer asked for 'Jog' and I cant work out if the lope is supposed to be quarters in (anyone care to enlighten me?)

HOWEVER,

The horses all look in fantastic condition (a few fake tails notwithstanding), well muscled and all behaving impeccibly and the riders are smartly turned out and seem connfident in their ability. The horses are obviously well used to moving this way so I presume is no more difficult for them than our English rounded way of going.

Is it just my very British training that makes me want to think 'this is horrendous' and should I instead be embracing a different cultural take on the sport we love?

 

[Holding]

I wouldn't want to make any judgments about whether it is unkind to the horses without knowing more about the training methods, aim of training, etc. but it certainly looks horrendous. I can't imagine any point to riding that way - it looks incredibly boring for both horse and rider. I'm sure it must take skill to school a horse to go that way but why on earth would you want to dampen natural movement to the point where it would be faster and more exciting to dismount and skip. Very odd to me - although at least there's less sparkly Lycra than when I entered one of these classes on a whim while in Washington. 😳

 

[Paint Me Proud]

I'm sure it must take skill to school a horse to go that way but why on earth would you want to dampen natural movement to the point where it would be faster and more exciting to dismount and skip.

I thought that too, do they breed them to naturally move more this way or is it a case of lots of training to move long, low and slow?

 

[Micropony]

I might be unobservent and inexperienced but those horses looked happy enough to me, and that chestnut mare looked pretty pleased with herself to my eye. I suppose I can kind of appreciate the point of those paces is probably comfort for the rider over long distances, and the horse being able to go for a long time without tiring. But it didn't leave me thinking it's a discipline I find inspiring or fancy trying, but that's true for a number of equestrian disciplines tbh, including showing *prepares to be shot*.

And yes I see what you mean about that lope looking quarters in. Was it just the camera angle?

Well if we all liked the same things the world would be a dull place eh?

 

[GirlFriday]

This ^^^ (although I *have* wanted to try low level showing in the past).

I didn't see anything in the video that looked like a welfare issue to me (except perhaps one or two rider weights) and the horses looked pretty relaxed in a big show environment.

From my limited experience of Western (through two different RS at opposite ends of the country and a friend who ride that way after leaving the cavalry) I could see how the relaxed, sustainable travel we were aiming for (as well as a bit of fun reining/barrel racing/etc!) could evolve into this kind of class when exaggerated to emphasise the achievement.

I imagine looking at, say, an event, those riders might see (physically and mentally) stressed horses compared to what they are used to. If you look at canter pirouettes or passage you can 'see' 'lame' horses too.

 

[millikins]

I too don't know enough about training to have an opinion on welfare but none looked stressed or anxious. I didn't watch all the way through as so dull but reminded me of watching local dressage when inside you're yelling "FFS kick on" as animals appear lame due to not going forward

 

[Blurr]

According to western riding friends, loping is cantering. It looks like it ends up quarters in because they don't want to go forwards. The hind legs have to go somewhere and the front legs aren't making room. That's what it looks like to me.

 

[Paint Me Proud]

According to western riding friends, loping is cantering. It looks like it ends up quarters in because they don't want to go forwards. The hind legs have to go somewhere and the front legs aren't making room. That's what it looks like to me.

Yes lope is canter and jog is trot

Thanks for confirming what I was thinking that it is all in perspective and what we are used to seeing. I wasnt implying I thought the horses looked stressed, far from it, and I was interested in others opinions on whether to an english eye it looked awkward because it is so not what we are used to seeing. I agree that it doesnt make me want to rush out and try it, it looks boring as hell, lol!

 

[ohmissbrittany]

They're bred to go like that, most of the time. There's a bit of "longe it to death" but honestly most of it is just how they go.

 

[madlady]

They're bred to go like that, most of the time. There's a bit of "longe it to death" but honestly most of it is just how they go.

So they would move like that naturally in the field with no rider on board? I'm struggling with imagining that and that was all I could think when watching the video that I would like to see the horses move naturally.

I didn't think they looked stressed but they didn't look interested (or interesting) either.

 

[SpottyMare]

Western pleasure is essentially producing a horse that is a pleasure to ride - so comfortable for the rider. Or as it generally appears, a pleasure to ride for someone who is scared of horses and doesn't want to go faster than a walk...

Having said that (and I haven't watched the video - I've seen enough of US western pleasure competitions to make me want to vomit), my opinion is that it's now a parody. Along with other types of competition, the ethos of 'more is better' appears to have taken over, with horses going so slowly at the jog and lope they're almost going backwards, and dragging themselves along on the forehand. The horses have a naturally lower head carriage than your average dressage horse, but the movement in itself is not natural.

I absolutely detest it. In case you hadn't noticed

 

[ohmissbrittany]

Yea, I part board a King Ranch bred QH at my house, and while he is "cutting bred" and not quite that slow, I think a lot of it has to do with their conformation. Here is a video of an "unknown" paint (which often have a lot of QH, you can cross register in their books) going in a round pen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ9mPguK4Ks and here is a yearling on the longe which I would be sure is "pleasure bred" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIeNIiUWJq8

There are pretty sharp distinctions in their ways of going between the different purposes (similar to how a sport trial, hunting, or show labrador tends to be bred and built differently). Cutters are shorter, much more downhill, generally wider. In the 90's when I had a pleasure bred QH (Zippo Pine Bar breeding), they were tending to be taller and leaner, and less obviously downhill. Reiners are usually the most athletic in the bunch, more evenly built and not so obviously designed to crawl or crouch.

A lot of it has to do with conformation of the breed as well- they're downhill, wider in back than in the front, often toe out behind, short tall pasterns and either straight or sickle hocked, and just not very flexible through the neck/body (you can see in the yearling longe video that the "haunches in canter" is present at a young age, as well as the loose-longeing paint)

 

[Amye]

Along with other types of competition, the ethos of 'more is better' appears to have taken over, with horses going so slowly at the jog and lope they're almost going backwards, and dragging themselves along on the forehand.

I don't know all the much about WP but I have seen a few of these videos. The above is what worries me - is the horses welfare taken into account when breeding/training for this way of going?

I think there's cruelty in all disciplines - look at rolkur - I think some of these horses are probably 'made' to go as slow as possible/hang the head as low as possible by cruel means. And some probably do move more like this naturally.

Watching WP does make me cringe as the way of going just doesn't look right to me, but I don't pretend to know enough to say for certain. I've looked at some arguments for and against but i'm still not sure...

 

[ameeyal]

Sorry but americans have some very "strange ideas" as to what looks nice regarding horses.
Didnt like it.
Wonder what would have happened if there was a loud bang ??? would have liked to see them glittzy coats hitting the deck.

 

[ester]

As usual everything has to be taken to the extreme. The western pleasure governing body said this year that more forward going horses would be rewarded, peanut rolling (heads on floor) and crabbing with horses directed towards the wall to artificially slow them penalised. Still a way to go though I think the heads have got a bit better . They do frequently get likened to zombie horses and tbh I can't see the point in a lope that is slower than most walks and doesn't look comfortable with the hip popping anyway . They do move a bit like it naturally but certainly 'enhanced' and some by pretty **** methods