Side effects of excess magnesium

Orchardbeck

Orchardbeck

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 December 2010
Messages
1,299
Visit site
Hi, I posted a few days ago in the feed section about my mare who had loose droppings after either a) being wormed with pramox, b) changing chaff to Alfa A unmollassed from HiFI unmollassed, or c) me adding extra water to her soaked feed (calm and condition).

I've been doing more research, and I read that sometimes excess magnesium can cause a laxitive effect. I have been adding magnesium oxide to her feed for a few years now, (she was on speedibeet before the C&C, which I understand to be balanced). With the alfalfa, which is also supposed to contain magnesium, the feed and the mag ox, could I have been overdosing her?

I have taken it out, and also added less water to her soaked feed (still slightly more water than is recommended) and her droppings seem less watery (still fully formed, jst with added liquid). She has been getting a vit supplement with probiotic but I think I can leave this out too as she is geting the recommended level of feed for her weight.

Or could it jst be the effects of the wormer wearing off (she was wormed last monday).
 
Excess magnesium can cause loose droppings, but it isn't really a problem - all it is is the system excreting the excess. If you reduce the dose to what her system can cope with it is better than stopping it altogether IMO
 
How long ago did you take her off the magnesium? If its been a few days and she still has loose droppings then it probably wasnt thd mag.
 
Magnesium is a 'safe' mineral to overdose. The body excretes the excess via wee & sloppy poos. I also found it to have a sedative affect when my sister massively (accidently) overdosed our pony (she'll eat anything!) She literally looked doped - nose nearly touching the floor! Vet said it would wear off & it did with no trouble (took a few days though).
If i were u, id still feed it - most UK feeds & grazing are lacking in it. But just play about with the dosage - start low. A few things changed/happened around the same time though, so it might not even be the mag at all. Especially if you've been feeding it for so long with no problems.
I hope u get it sorted :) x
 
AFAIK alfalfa is high in calcium, which actually prevents the uptake of magnesium :)

I would personally be thinking wormer, and adding some probiotics like Yea-sacc for a week or two to help the gut settle again. If you've fed this amount of magnesium for some time with loose poos, it's unlikely to be the magnesium.
 
You need ALOT of magnesium to make it work as a laxative!

I think it's the change from a straw chaff to an alfalfa chaff.

Every time I change bale batches with my filly, her droppings change and takes a few days to go back to normal. They are sensitive creatures and winter is hard on the gut as so much dry matter is consumed with water taken periodically.

On pasture, much of the water is taken with the grass so digestion improves.

Add some brewers yeast or yea sacc to the feed will help balance the gut bacteria. I also add mint as it soothes the gut lining.
 
Thanks all. Her droppings are back to normal again, so i'm putting it down to the wormer - she's been done with pramox before but she's been sensitive since a colic episode in early Dec, in fact I noticed she was poorly when I was actually heading out the door to buy the damn thing! I've put off worming her til now to let her recover and did her with Eqvalan instead incase of a tapeworm burden.

She's been on Equimins advanced complete since then which has yeast and probiotics, and the calm and condition also has probiotics.

I'm gooing to reintroduce the mag ox again and see how we go. The alfalfa thing is weird as she has been getting hifi beforehand which surely contains it too? I've reduced the amount of chaff from a full stubbs scoop twice per day to two big handfuls 2x per day as the straight alfalfa has a higher feed value.
 
I have to say I was always under that impression, I was never worried about how much mag ox I put in her feed as a result. It musthave been the effect of mag sulphate I came across that confused me. That's good as I feed it for two purposes, feet and muscles, and as a kind of antacid in case she has ulcer issues. And there is the obvious calming benefit, not that she desperately needs calming!

I think it was the Pramox, as her bed is much dryer today, with no liquid staining the shavings. She is probably still od'ing on other minerals with what she is being fed though!
 
cptrayes said:
Magnesium sulphate is a big laxative, but magnesium oxide nowhere near as much.
Click to expand...
Agree, I feed 6gms of magnesium per day, but some people are on 25gms, ie 50gms of magnesium oxide. the Uk is low in magnesium generally, and I feed it as a calmer and and to reduce feet sensitivity [barefoot]
Part of it comes from feedmark Steady up which I know does not cause any problems as I have fed it at the maximum dose in the past. I have recently bought MgO to cut the costs
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/900g-Magn...t=UK_Horse_Wear_Equipment&hash=item1e67297e1f, and feed a small amount of Steady up which also has some yeast-sac and calming herbs.
 
Hi fi lite is mainly straw. There is alfalfa in there but since alfalfa is a conditioning feed, there would be no point adding too much of it or else it would be very "lite" :D
 
Thanks again all. Aramanta, do you know if there is a safe ratio of calcium to magnesium - should I be adding something else, a bit like selenium and vitamin e?
 
Amaranta said:
Magnesium also inhibits the uptake of calcium so it is not 'safe' to overdose
Click to expand...

Can you give us the reference for that Amaranta, I have never heard of it before?

Phosphorous inhibits calcium take-up but this is the first reference I have ever seen to magnesium doing so.

A very substantial proportion of barefooters overdose magnesium, including me, and I have never seen a single suggestion anywhere of calcium deficiency because of it. If it's true then we need to change our advice, and the manufacturers of magnesium calmers need to start putting overdose warnings on their products.
 
tallyho! said:
http://www.balancedequinenutrition.com/Ratios.html
Click to expand...

There does not appear to be any science to back up that chart? It's worded in a very woolly fashion
- mineral relationships and interactions: calcium, iron, manganese, zinc, phosphorus, magnesium, copper

If a mineral has an arrow pointing to another mineral, it means a deficiency of that mineral or interference with its metabolism may be caused by excesses of the mineral from whence the arrow originates.
Click to expand...


My bolding.

I'm not sure it's worth the paper it's not written on :( It reads like a bit of marketing puff for their products to me.
 
Last edited:
If it wasn't the wormer I'd say it was the change to Alfa A as it will be higher in protein. Adding water to feeds can only be a good thing for a horse with runny poo!
 
Sorry, have forgotten all about it, can you point me to it again? I can't have thought that there was much substance in whatever you pointed me to, because I'm normally pretty hot on remembering stuff like that.
 
Amaranta said:
Magnesium also inhibits the uptake of calcium so it is not 'safe' to overdose
Click to expand...

Now I am totally confused, I had read (on here I think??) that the opposite is the case, that too much calcium inhibits the uptake of magnesium. Which is why I stopped using Calmag as I felt I might be depleting the uptake of magnesium (which is the thing I particularly wanted to feed at a reasonably high'ish level) by using the calmag as a cheaper alternative?
 
MrsJingle said:
Now I am totally confused, I had read (on here I think??) that the opposite is the case, that too much calcium inhibits the uptake of magnesium. Which is why I stopped using Calmag as I felt I might be depleting the uptake of magnesium (which is the thing I particularly wanted to feed at a reasonably high'ish level) by using the calmag as a cheaper alternative?
Click to expand...

Are you are referring to calmag - as in calcined magnesite? If not can you let me know what product you mean because I am always keen to try and be as well informed as possible. Thank you.

The calmag product I am familiar with (calcined magnesite) is magnesite rock roasted at 500+ degrees and ground. It contains mag ox, silica and carbon and probably some trace elements, but is not a source of calcium.

Re the confusion - calcium and magnesium need to be in rough balance - 2 parts calcium to 1 part magnesium is often quoted.
 
While acknowledging that there are many substances that can be good or bad for our horses ( or us ) I reckon the entire additive industry is a plague that prays on the unsuspecting and can do more harm than good.

If you look at the the reccommended doses of all minerals and trace elements and have a good think about what the amounts actually are - I reckon I could scrape out my fingernails and get more weight!

Your average horse eats a huge volume of grass, hay or haylage in comparison before considering any hard food - all of this on average will supply everything an animal needs - especially if they go out to graze for any amount of time because horses crop their grass quite close to the soil and will naturally ingest quite an amount. I dare say that most Horseyfolk have witnessed horses licking the ground in certain places too - it's usually because it's salty ( to them ) but can be for many other stuff that "Nature" is telling them to eat.

I kept three horses and two ponies fighting fit over thirty odd years and never fed a single supplement to any of them - I believe that they are totally unnecessary.
 
cptrayes said:
There does not appear to be any science to back up that chart? It's worded in a very woolly fashion


My bolding.

I'm not sure it's worth the paper it's not written on :( It reads like a bit of marketing puff for their products to me.
Click to expand...

Probably but the 2:1 ratio seems standard across every site I came across...
 
1stclassalan said:
While acknowledging that there are many substances that can be good or bad for our horses ( or us ) I reckon the entire additive industry is a plague that prays on the unsuspecting and can do more harm than good.

If you look at the the reccommended doses of all minerals and trace elements and have a good think about what the amounts actually are - I reckon I could scrape out my fingernails and get more weight!

Your average horse eats a huge volume of grass, hay or haylage in comparison before considering any hard food - all of this on average will supply everything an animal needs - especially if they go out to graze for any amount of time because horses crop their grass quite close to the soil and will naturally ingest quite an amount. I dare say that most Horseyfolk have witnessed horses licking the ground in certain places too - it's usually because it's salty ( to them ) but can be for many other stuff that "Nature" is telling them to eat.

I kept three horses and two ponies fighting fit over thirty odd years and never fed a single supplement to any of them - I believe that they are totally unnecessary.
Click to expand...

Probably true Alan. I think the problem is not to do with the supply, the demand has increased due an increasing number of horses kept on unsuitable pasture.... And feeds!
 
Last edited:
LucyPriory said:
Are you are referring to calmag - as in calcined magnesite? If not can you let me know what product you mean because I am always keen to try and be as well informed as possible. Thank you.

The calmag product I am familiar with (calcined magnesite) is magnesite rock roasted at 500+ degrees and ground. It contains mag ox, silica and carbon and probably some trace elements, but is not a source of calcium.

Re the confusion - calcium and magnesium need to be in rough balance - 2 parts calcium to 1 part magnesium is often quoted.
Click to expand...

Ah right, well it is calcined magnesite that I was using (used for cattle in my part of the world and called calmag on the labelling), and I was led to believe that it also contained calcium? In fact I am sure that it said so on the label? But I could be wrong, I often am!

So would I be OK to still feed that then...I have gone back to buying very expensive magnesium from Progressive Earth as I thought I was getting it seriously wrong with the cattle Calmag?

Gosh it is all so confusing!
 
Is calmag cheaper and equivalent to mag ox then? I feed mag ox from pro earth and thought it was pretty good cost wise compared to what I've seen in the tack shop!

Alan - I totally agree but mag ox makes my horse less mental to deal with which Is definitely a good thing with my fragile nerves :-) its cheap too really since I only feed that and chaff and sometimes linseed (sounds very 'barefoot' but she does wear shoes!). I since bought some hi fibre nuts with 'balanced vits and mins' and the mentalness has returned. I don't trust anything a feed company tells me!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top