Side reins - following on from the draw reins discussion

Halfstep said:
I only use side reins for in hand work with older horses or for lunging babies (loose, obviously, and only to get them used to the concept of contact). For older horses on the lunge I use the draw reins over the withers set up, which allows for lateral bend. I would never set up side reins to force an inside bend as to me this is asking for crookedness.
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We do the same - use draw reins as running reins. Works really well.
 
Tempi said:
I use draw reins on my horse, shes very long backed and a lot to keep together. I never lunge in side reins apart from with youngsters. To lunge my mare i do the drawreins over the wither thing.
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Oh get me agreeing with everyone today....!

Now for the usual *stamping on a hornet's nest* FinnMcCoul....

I'd like to see all those who disagree with draw reins, come and get on my tank of a warmblood and try and control him when he spooks, sets his neck and ******s off at high speed. You'll be begging for draw reins then, I promise you.
 
Weezy said:
I would never advocate using side reins with either of the 2 above set ups, and would love to hear from anyone who does, and why they do and what they are trying to achieve!
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An explanation behind the "inside side rein only" theory is on my draw reins thread. My trainer (classical, German, trained with Neindorff, highly qualified and v experienced) uses 1 this way for early work. It is not restrictive at all.
 
The Spanish Riding School use side reins for lungeing and working the horse in hand. The inside rein is slightly shorter. A horse is narrower at the front than behind and to be straight the inside of the horse needs to be the straight part (shoulders infront of inside hindleg) hence the inside rein being a fraction shorter. The height and length is dependant on the horse but they are not used to pull the head in but to encourage the horse into a round outline with him working from behind taking the contact forward and down. Running reins for lungeing are known to some as Vienna reins and are used by SRS trainers when out of the School. Correctly fitted they are very valuable.
The chambon has drawbacks. They work best on horses that don't find it that hard to stretch and that stay up in their shoulders (in which case it is probably not necessary). For a horse that is on the forehand it is not going to improve the balance and it is not going to teach the horse to seek the contact as the reward for looking for the contact is that it is released so a soft acceptance is never achieved.
 
Just having a quick read of my Alois Podhajsky book - the complete training of Horse and rider and he definately says "Both side reins should be of the same length. On very rare occasions the inside rein may be shorter but never the outside one. The shortened inside rein, added to the weight of the longe rein, will make the horse carry his head too much to the inside and the quarters will swing out."
 
The John Whitaker Training Aid (Mock Pessoa) has worked wonders for my newly broken 4yo. He has been off work due to teeth so have just bought him back in it, and rode him the other day. My God I noticed the improvements, so proud of him and am so thankful I turfed out for one!
 
I've only used side reins in the past on lado, both adjusted to the same length and as a form of more control and respect on the lunge, once he realised we were doing things my way, they where no longer needed, they don't any serve any other useful purpose to either or my horses when lunging, they can mask many problems.
 
*Spider* said:
Why's this? My youngster will bend outwards if they're the same length as he's trying to bend inwards there is more pressure on his outside rein and thus bending outwards.
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The reason your horse is bending outwards is probably physiological - you say he has had a tooth/teeth problem so i would suggest its to do with pain association and you need to work on getting your horse to accept the fact that its not going to hurt when he/she bends in a certain way. You should never ever have one rein/side rein (or whatever) shorter on a youngster as you are teaching your horse to be crooked which will result in long term back problems not to mention the fact that you will never be able to get the horse straight and true from behind over his/her back. You wouldnt ride with one rein shorter than the other would you? (or do you??????)

So many people think that if the horse bends its neck it is correct - the horse should bend through the WHOLE body, not in the neck.
 
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KatB said:
Well here is one for you ;)

An old instructor I had years ago (who was a "classical" trainer ;) ) used to lunge with an outside siderein, and then the lunge line clipped to the roller, and through the bit ring and back to the lungers hand... therefore you can control the inside bend... but also have quite a lot of leverage on the horses neck... ;)

Just to add another variation!!
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I worked as a groom for a Dressage Rider that lunged like that, although I think the lunge line went the other way (clipped to bit, through roller and to the hand) but I can never remember :O :D
 
KatB said:
Well here is one for you ;)

An old instructor I had years ago (who was a "classical" trainer ;) ) used to lunge with an outside siderein, and then the lunge line clipped to the roller, and through the bit ring and back to the lungers hand... therefore you can control the inside bend... but also have quite a lot of leverage on the horses neck... ;)

Just to add another variation!!
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That's how I lunge, but only with well behaved horses but i leave both side reins on for ease, safety and consistency.
 
Evelyn said:
Just having a quick read of my Alois Podhajsky book - the complete training of Horse and rider and he definately says "Both side reins should be of the same length. On very rare occasions the inside rein may be shorter but never the outside one. The shortened inside rein, added to the weight of the longe rein, will make the horse carry his head too much to the inside and the quarters will swing out."
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Arthur Kottas who was also 1st chief rider for many years and taught by Podhajsky uses a slightly shorter inside side rein. Apart from being a wonderful rider and trainer he is considered one of the finest at working horses from the ground.
 
hate them, hate them, hate them, never use them in breaking or training, they are the very antipathy of what i am aiming for, i've got the book complete training of the horse and rider, and videos of j. loriston clark, as mentioned previously, sorry but i don't rate either, i would love to put all side reins, draw reins chambons, gogues, pessoas, running reins and all artificiel gadgets in a big heap and burn them.
try to understand the horse and learn to ride the whole horse not constrict his head and neck, there is too much emphasis on positioning the head, prematurely.
 
*Spider* said:
Why's this? My youngster will bend outwards if they're the same length as he's trying to bend inwards there is more pressure on his outside rein and thus bending outwards.
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He is doing that because he is stiff and falling in through his inside shoulder, increase the size of the circle and you will need to walk a circle too. Get closer to him and when he starts to look out, use your whip behind the elbow, make sure that you are behind the shoulder line so that you can drive him forward. Also use a squeezing motion on the lunge line which is asking him to flex to the inside. If he hangs out (feels very heavy on the arm holding the rein, or you feel like you are having to haul his head around) then it is well worth getting the chiro to check him over.

As he becomes more supple he will find it easier to maintain the correct flexion on the circle. Eventually you will be able to reduce the size of the circle and he will remain correctly bent on the circle.
 
I have never used side reins in my life,cant see the point. i love long reining and Bob the (not a ) cob and I spend a lot of time playing with these. We practice timing and precision in our wonderfull 19th centuary indoor school but generaly wind up in a knot laughing(Bob is a very easy going Irish horse). I would love to meet the person who broke bob because \I would shake him by the hand for doing such a fine job.
 
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